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Time: Arizona Republicans will likely introduce legislation this fall that would deny birth certificates to children born in Arizona


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I really think that most of the opposed here are pushing this to the extremes. They are the ones that rolled their eyes when conservatives questioned the health bill and asked the extreme questions, and now are the ones who are asking the extreme questions. What if, what if, what if? Hypocrisy much?

Extremes?! Seriously? You consider the condemnation of a proposed law that would CLEARLY violate the 14th Amendment extreme?

Some more FYI

All persons born or naturalized in the United States, and subject to the jurisdiction thereof, are citizens of the United States and of the State wherein they reside. No State shall make or enforce any law which shall abridge the privileges or immunities of citizens of the United States; nor shall any State deprive any person of life, liberty, or property, without due process of law; nor deny to any person within its jurisdiction the equal protection of the laws.

Yep, extreme...:silly:

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I really think that most of the opposed here are pushing this to the extremes. They are the ones that rolled their eyes when conservatives questioned the health bill and asked the extreme questions, and now are the ones who are asking the extreme questions. What if, what if, what if? Hypocrisy much?

How is pointing out that the "law" is a very clear violation of the 14th amendment an extreme? Stop trying to deflect that quite a few conservatives rant and rave about the Constitution and then turn around and say **** you to the Constitution by clearly advocating the violation of the 14th amendment.

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For as much ****ing about how healthcare reform was unconstitutional its great seeing (some) conservatives advocating clear violation of the 14th amendment. Who would have guessed that a lot of conservatives don't give a **** about the Constitution when they don't like parts of it.

This is probably an important point even if it is said with a bit of vinegar.

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Im absolutely positive that they cannot do this legally.

Im also certain that THEY know that already and are proposing this to

1- Keep the spotlight shining bright on this issue.

2- Make AZ less and less attractive to the illegall aliens.

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Why stop it there? What about children of felons? What about children of rapists? What about children of legal immigrants that aren't yet US citizens? What about giving US citizenship at 18 instead of birth so kids that aren't raised in the US aren't forced on us with their odd cultural beliefs?

Or... how about changing the law/constitution (good luck with that) BEFORE giving new meaning to "undocumented" by forcing children into legal non-existence. Seems like a great way to create a slave class. Birth illegals in Arizona and the kids legally don't exist. What an awesome idea.

Now you are just being ridiculous, but hey, it's hard to argue any points with someone that actualy supports illegal immigration the way you do.

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This is probably an important point even if it is said with a bit of vinegar.

Yeah probably could have been a bit less bitter but seeing stuff like this just makes me lose faith in a decent portion of the political spectrum.

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Im absolutely positive that they cannot do this legally.

Im also certain that THEY know that already and are proposing this to

1- Keep the spotlight shining bright on this issue.

2- Make AZ less and less attractive to the illegall aliens.

I would say this is probably right. I don't see how anyone could try and pass this law and suggest with a straight face that it's remotely constitutional.

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Now you are just being ridiculous, but hey, it's hard to argue any points with someone that actualy supports illegal immigration the way you do.

So you think we should ignore the Constitution? I hope you weren't complaining about healthcare reform or anything else Obama has done violating the Constitution because its pretty clear you don't care about that.

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Im not sure this is the right way of doing things, but I appreciate their efforts to try and fix the broken system.

Pretty much how I feel too. We all know the system is broken and desperatley needs to be fixed. But I don't agree with how Arizona is going about it.

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I really think that most of the opposed here are pushing this to the extremes. They are the ones that rolled their eyes when conservatives questioned the health bill and asked the extreme questions, and now are the ones who are asking the extreme questions. What if, what if, what if? Hypocrisy much?
These posts are really not the most intelligent things I've seen on the internet.

Health care and constitutionality is something you can debate until the cows come home. There's no constitutional debate on this one. None. This law would deny rights to people who are without question American citizens.

If you don't like what the Constitution says, there's a process to address that. Get busy and stop calling people hypocrites just because they apparently have a better grasp of the subject than you.

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Yeah probably could have been a bit less bitter but seeing stuff like this just makes me lose faith in a decent portion of the political spectrum.

I get that. And I think your point was right. This is a pretty crazy, out there choice. I think the Courts are going to have an easy time of this one.

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Now you are just being ridiculous, but hey, it's hard to argue any points with someone that actualy supports illegal immigration the way you do.

No, I'm highlighting how absurd rewriting citizenship rules on winds of current political climate is. I agree it is ridiculous.

Again I don't support illegal immigration. I've stated my position on ending illegal immigration many times in several threads. Pretending I'm pro illegal immigration because I disagree with that ignorant short sighted position you support is nonsense.

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I get that. And I think your point was right. This is a pretty crazy, out there choice. I think the Courts are going to have an easy time of this one.

I guess I was just hoping Arizona citizens and lawmakers would have just responding with a collective "you have to be effing kidding me" when this law came up, but there are way too many people supporting a clearly unconstitutional law that is created specifically to deny someone their rights as a United States citizen. That is disgusting to me.

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I really think that most of the opposed here are pushing this to the extremes. They are the ones that rolled their eyes when conservatives questioned the health bill and asked the extreme questions, and now are the ones who are asking the extreme questions. What if, what if, what if? Hypocrisy much?

Not exactly. Sure opponents to HC reform argued that the bill was unconstitutional, but proponents disagreed.

In this case, there's really no disagreement. A better route for AZ I think would have been to propose an amendment to repeal the 14th. Otherwise, this bill is straight up unconstitutional. No debate needed.

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For as much ****ing about how healthcare reform was unconstitutional its great seeing (some) conservatives advocating clear violation of the 14th amendment. Who would have guessed that a lot of conservatives don't give a **** about the Constitution when they don't like parts of it.

great point.

instead of punishing the children or "anchor babies" why beef up security or build a better fence. Hell make the "Great wall of Mexico" or something.

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One of the greatest underlining benefits of the United states, and in fact one of the underlining values that many of our rules and laws is based on is that no child should suffer for the sins of the father.

This is why you have freedom of association.

This is why you have innocent until proven guilty.

And this is why, all children, reguardless of their parents, who are born in the united states are citizen of the united states.

You might not agree with it, or like it (Just Like I don't think the 2nd amendment should grant the right to own a gun to all citizens) but it is the law.

this bill - Well, pass it or don't pass it. won't make a lick of difference. There is not a honorable judge in the world that would let it stand.

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I guess I was just hoping Arizona citizens and lawmakers would have just responding with a collective "you have to be effing kidding me" when this law came up, but there are way too many people supporting a clearly unconstitutional law that is created specifically to deny someone their rights as a United States citizen. That is disgusting to me.

I agree. What certain segments seem to be willing to compromise is alarming to me. They are trending towards something very vile and I think they are blind to it. If you look at the cumulative actions and language being put out there not on the fringes, but by the standard bearers and those with power it should make one worried.

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These posts are really not the most intelligent things I've seen on the internet.

Health care and constitutionality is something you can debate until the cows come home. There's no constitutional debate on this one. None. This law would deny rights to people who are without question American citizens.

If you don't like what the Constitution says, there's a process to address that. Get busy and stop calling people hypocrites just because they apparently have a better grasp of the subject than you.

And I will refer you to the 10th Amendment:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tenth_Amendment_to_the_United_States_Constitution

The federal government has no jurisdiction to mandate health care, it is not within their power. So again, you cannot complain about this being passed by a state because it is unconstitutional if you supported the federal government stepping over their boundaries and mandating unconstitutional health care. (Did all that without calling you unintelligent or getting into name calling with you, imagine that! :laugh:)

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What's wrong with changing the law/amending the Constitution, so children of illegals are not automatically given US citizenship?

Absolutely nothing. In fact, the Constitution not only says that it can be done, it says how to go about it.

Just offhand, I'd say that I'd vote in favor of it. (I'm not rabidly in favor of it. But I'm leaning more in favor than opposed.)

Marvelous document, the Constitution. Y'all should read it, some time.

I'd recommend starting with this part:

All persons born or naturalized in the United States, and subject to the jurisdiction thereof, are citizens of the United States and of the State wherein they reside. No State shall make or enforce any law which shall abridge the privileges or immunities of citizens of the United States; nor shall any State deprive any person of life, liberty, or property, without due process of law; nor deny to any person within its jurisdiction the equal protection of the laws.
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I can't tell if you're joking, but just in case you're not.

instead of punishing the children or "anchor babies" why beef up security or build a better fence. Hell make the "Great wall of Mexico" or something.

You do realize that the Great Wall of China was built to slow down the Mongolian invaders, and it wasn't meant to "keep them out" right? BTW, Hadrian's Wall didn't work, the Berlin Wall didn't work, the Great Wall of China didn't work, and the Maginot Line didn't work...is it me or am I sensing a trend here?

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