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Alt energy versus Alt water


Burgold

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According to some stuff I've been reading, if the population curve continues the way it's been going we'll be straining for a sip of drinkable water in fifty years and could possibly run out. Oil is obviously also a big concern both for pragmatic as well as economic and security reasons. Right now, desalinization is pretty inefficient, expensive, and takes a ton of energy. We've also contaminated to hell a number of drinkable resources making them unusable. Right now, alt energy is pretty inefficient, expensive, and we don't have a great means to store it. We also have a number of useable oil resources which are really tough to get out or prohibitively expensive (for example, extracting it from tar)

Are you concerned about either? Where would you like more resources aimed? Is water even on your radar of problems?

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water seems to be a problem that can be more disastrous, but it also seems to be more local. It seems like we could also probably use a lot less water if we had to without necessarily slowing down everything we do, whereas energy cut backs would probably cause sever economic problems.

<--- doesn't know much about any of this

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One other interesting thing... the countries with the largest populations, India and China, have only about 10% of the world's drinkable water. The U.S. is actually in better shape than a lot of places... I think.

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Some societal-visionary types say wars over water will be to the 21st century what wars over oil were to the 20th century. And worse.

I believe it.

We have word-battles over water in this country, as plentiful as everything is here, mostly because people choose to live in deserts. It's a luxury, and one which one might imagine disappearing Detroit-style over the next 100 years as it becomes unsustainable. And here it's just between states.

Imagine the wars that will inevitably result when entire countries that are almost nothing but desert realize that they need each other's water to avoid watching massive swaths of their growing populations die. In my opinion it's inevitable, and it's another reason for us to get the hell out of the Middle East. They will be affected.

Or to put it a different way, alternate energy and/or alternate water technology will insulate us from getting tied up in others' cultural water wars -- just as could have been theoretically avoided in part if we had viable alternate energy decades ago.

One sad fact that has been validated without fail over the past several thousand years (and also during a recently departed Presidential administration): when cowards feel that their culture's survival is genuinely threatened, no detestable action is locked out from being reclassified as acceptable behavior. Killing, lying, torturing, graft, and unthinkable behaviors of every kind can be justified by a terrified culture with a sufficiently warped mindset. And no "goddamned piece of paper," no matter how revered, can stop the cowards from following those behaviors through.

Since any culture's leadership is inevitably stacked with cowards, it's a rule that fulfills itself with no prodding needed. Works (i.e., fails) every time.

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mjah, would you compare the impractical choice of living in the desert to, say, living near the coast, below sea level?

I mean, if we treat Phoenix and New Orleans equally, the solution will be to pour tax dollars into Phoenix, when and if this problem arises. And of course, that lends itself to the potential for abuses like we saw in New Orleans.

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Or to put it a different way, alternate energy and/or alternate water technology will insulate us from getting tied up in others' cultural water wars -- just as could have been theoretically avoided in part if we had viable alternate energy decades ago.

.

Wouldn't our refusal to exploit available natural resources and technology be to blame?

Isn't that refusal theoretically directly responsible for us getting caught up in others wars? (since you obviously wish to ignore the other entangling aspects;))

Strange some seem to think technology can provide affordable energy yet not clean water.

Is there some natural law I'm unaware of?

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Strange some seem to think technology can provide affordable energy yet not clean water.

Is there some natural law I'm unaware of?

I think you're right. I believe Israel gets a large percentage of their water through desalinization and the rest of us probably could/will and once we decide we have to we will get better and more efficient at it... just like we probably will with solar, wind, etc.

I think all it will take is a little desperation. Seems we never really act until we HAVE to.

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Alt Energy is a lot easier to come up with - the solutions are just expensive or inconvenient, but they are there. Plus, there is a tremendous market incentive to find them.

Providing sufficient water for 3 billion Chinese and Indians moving from poverty to a middle class lifestyle- now THAT is a challenge, especially when farmers are conditioned to think that water should basically be free.

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We'll have intergalactic war before we have WW3. We'll go to another planet (the moon?) and try to steal the water there and then the alien people (who first built the pyramids and stonehenge and a bunch of other stuff) will say not on my watch. Then Captain Kirk will take over the starship Enterprise and team up with Luke Skywalker and lead us to victory.

It will be a glorious day, but it will signal the end of the world because it will bring us to the ultimate peace, and people will anoint Luke Skywalker as "the One" and then God will come strike down upon us with Great Vengeance and Furious Anger!

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Providing sufficient water for 3 billion Chinese and Indians moving from poverty to a middle class lifestyle- now THAT is a challenge, especially when farmers are conditioned to think that water should basically be free.

That's sounds like India's and China's problem. I don't see there being a water shortage in the US any time soon.

We can alway trade water on the commodities market, we could do pretty well with that.

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I don't think water will really be much of an issue, especially if you have the energy to desalination and transport (which alt. energy would go along way in helping).

The big thing is that water is going to act as a bottle neck. It wil prevent growth. There is no way around it.

Our problem with energy is that we were essentially able to ignore the bottle neck because we are going to pay for our past in the future.

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