PFT: Redskins Still want to trade Haynesworth

[addicted]

the NFL is about the effort of 53 players.

Ok dude seriously this is messed up.

53 Players on the opening day roster. We have 80 guys in camp now. Should the 27 other dudes just leave now since you said only 53 matter

This isnt the regular season, and he's missed ZERO mandatory practices. You definitely fall into one of my categories

unless you are talking about a franchise quarterback with big game experience, there is no player that is indispensable.

Is money indispensable? Does money matter to the owner? Lets see...

Coachs makes 7 million a year

Owner lets him run team

Hanyesworth makes 30 something million in a year

Owner kicks him to the curb after a productive season

Comeon dude that's complete nonsense. Hanyesworth played in more snaps last year then any other Defensive Linemen on the entire team. Our sack total more then doubled because of his pressance as was expected when he was brought in. And he's already gotten paid. Your redicious line of thinking that Snyder's just gonna throw Hanyesworth away for any offer is crazy. If some team offered up a bangin deal then sure we might take it. But that doesn't discribe this cult like thinking that if your not "with us" right now today at the end of May that must mean "your against us". It's freaking MAY man. What happens if Williams holds out for a contract? Should he be kicked to the curb too? This is a business, Alberts doing Albert. Who cares in MAY what that is. As long as he comes in camp in shape then we are good, unless you can show some proof that he's not working out and really is at home drinking beer and eating cheetos you got nothing on him now other then your irrational fear that he comes in as a fat ass and we can't trade him. Enough with this "one of us" mess, it sounds disgusting. He's done nothing wrong, the teams players and coaches want him there. How you go from wanting him in camp to kicking him off the team is crazy but so is not accepting his decision to be away for now.

Haynesworth and the Titans didn't win anything in his 7 years there. he was perhaps the most productive DT in the AFC in 2007 and 2008 and Tennessee never made it to the AFC title game.

And so what? DT makes up the whole team? DT wins and losses games all by themselves? The team with the best DT always wins championships and makes it to championship games?

Why? Because it takes more than one name player or a few name players.

Something Shanahan knows from experience but Cerrato/Snyder never seemed to understand.

So your going to say the man knows all this and still try and argue with what he's said about Hanyesworth?

Show us where Shanny said anything about trading him to make you believe that's what he wants? I can show you 10 things where coach said "I want Albert in camp" and similar. If he wanted to kick him to another team why would he want him at camp? If coach thought Albert was a disease and would spread his plague of fish flopping lazyness to other players why would he want him near the team? Sorry but your logic here makes little to no sense

So, Shanahan is stuck with a 'me first' player in Haynesworth, at least for the time being.

Whatever. You need to learn that not all people want to be leaders or want to be examples. Not all atheletes get the same workouts from the same regimens that others do.

Hanyesworth if he comes into camp in better shape then he would have been if he was here as he said he was going to do and stated as the reason for his absence, if that happens then he's done the Redskins a service by not being here. Who better to know how Albert gets into shape? You a poster on a forum or the man himself? Your way doesn't work for everyone.

In the meantime he is showing us he was the last and biggest mistake the team has made in the past 10 years.

Hanyesworth undenyably helped this team last year which is a hell of a lot more then some of our busted FA's like Archuletta and Lloyd did. He will never go down as the biggest mistake we made this decade or any decade. We've had too many epic failures to even come close to that.

[addicted]

Please. Did you see all the sacks Carter and Okrakpo had last season? Their production was the direct result of Fat Al being on the D-line.

And why would we trade away the most dominant d-linesman in the game? Especially after sinking $40M+ on the man and while we are only obligated to paying him a couple mil per season for the remainder of his contract (6yrs). ROI. It's not like he doesn't have a play book.

Great post and very reasonable and rational. Completely agree with you here.

BTW - Passing up Greg Williams for Zorn was the BIGGEST mistake we made in the past 10 years.

In the context that we went with Zorn over Williams I can see in hindsite that it was a big mistake. However I never liked Williams and his buster attitude. If he wasn't trying so hard to use squares in round holes just so he could use "his scheme" then we would have been much more dominant. Sure he won a Superbowl ring with New Orleans this year but his defense pretty much sucked all year, hell even our biggest scoring offensive game in a 4-12 year came against that man's defense. I never got into the Williams lovefest personally because as a head coach in Buffalo he sucked bad and I think he's over rated as a coach. We never should have gone top 10 defense to bottom defense like we did with a great coach. And he should have known that he couldn't use Archuletta like he wanted to if he was a great evaluator of talent. And we wouldn't have drafted Landry that high if he could scout talent. I don't too highly of Williams and I don't think it was a choice between Williams and Zorn. Zorn just kinda happened. And that was an epic failure and it was a result of that epic failure that we now have a much better team run by a real coaching staff so I'm grateful for the terrible job Zorn did. We wouldn't be here without Zorn

[HailfrmDEN]

Listening to sports radio, I can't help but notice that all of the people who call up to defend Haynesworth are idiots.

So Phillip Daniels came on here and said its all media hype but it would be nice to have him there. Is he an idiot.

[skinnyfan57]

If I were a mod, I would ban the next person who says that Orakpo and Carter's sacks were because of that greedy, grabbing, glob of chemicals. That garbage is so tired.

[Mahons21]

Oh please, Hass Defenses have never been considered great in any system he ran. Don't tell me he's just another idiot we hired who's more about "his system" then fitting the right players in it, I thought we were over that crap when we canned Gregg Williams. These coaches who are all ego and about themselves never work out.

Haslett has said he wants to gear the defense around Brian Orakpo, who is arguably our best overall defender, and is still young. Sounds like a great idea to me.

And coaches who are all about "the system," aren't always bad, Bill Belichick being the best example.

[Mahons21]

Please. Did you see all the sacks Carter and Okrakpo had last season? Their production was the direct result of Fat Al being on the D-line.

-Oh really? and just how many sacks of their 22 do you think Albert was even in the game for?

[bulldog]

Disagree.

Orakpo if healthy will be a 10-15 sack player by season in the NFL.

He would have posted numbers in a defense without Haynesworth up front.

You guys give Haynesworth too much credit. He only played in 12 games and of those he was noticeably dragging due to conditioning issues.

Is he a solid player and disruptor when healthy and motivated? Yes.

But he is not a be-all or end-all for the Redskins defense.

In the 3-4 you will see outside pressure from Orakpo and Carter with our without Haynesworth.

If AH was motivated to come in and contribute that would be the best-case scenario.

But that isn't going to happen.

So, the logical move is to plan for the next steps to move the team forward.

If you aren't part of the solution, then you are part of the problem

[Popeman38]

If I were a mod, I would ban the next person who says that Orakpo and Carter's sacks were because of that greedy, grabbing, glob of chemicals. That garbage is so tired.

Your right. The same system that only produced 26 sacks the season before was solely responsible for the dramatic jump in sacks with Big Al on the line. Seriously, adding Orakpo via the draft and AH via FA made for a helluva defensive improvement.

[Mahons21]

Your right. The same system that only produced 26 sacks the season before was solely responsible for the dramatic jump in sacks with Big Al on the line. Seriously, adding Orakpo via the draft and AH via FA made for a helluva defensive improvement.

-I would say Orakpo had a lot more to do with it then Al.. and I'll pose the same question to you of the 22 sacks by our DE duo, how many do you think Albert was even in the game for?

[skinnyfan57]

-Oh really? and just how many sacks of their 22 do you think Albert was even in the game for?

I really wish I could get ahold of all this past season's games so I could give this a good analysis. I have a hunch that Albert's presence was only....

OH NO!!!!! LOOK OUT EVERYBODY!!!!

There's a herd of ants headed straight for Albert's big fat candy ass.

[Mahons21]

Skinny I've already taken the time to go through all the highlights of the play by play last year to find out just how many sacks he was actually on the field for.. I'm curious to hear what one of these guys who claim Big Al was the reason they got so many sacks guesses first, then I'll let ya know.

[skinnyfan57]

Skinny I've already taken the time to go through all the highlights of the play by play last year to find out just how many sacks he was actually on the field for.. I'm curious to hear what one of these guys who claim Big Al was the reason they got so many sacks guesses first, then I'll let ya know.

We all know that Nobody would have gotten a single sack if it weren't for Albert so I'll guess all 22.

Yes, I know he was inactive for Oakland and New Orleans and that 7 of their 22 sacks came in those two games alone. I figure he still found a way to be on the field since he's so great and all.

[addicted]

If AH was motivated to come in and contribute that would be the best-case scenario.

But that isn't going to happen.

Why? Because your Mrs Cleo ball says so? Prove this.

The only thing I see is your fear that we trade AH and dont get good value, thats consuming you and making you irrational.

Here's an exercise for you. Check my post history. You just might find the first person here who said "lets trade hanyesworth" to be me. Said this in January. If we were going to trade him the best time to do that has now past. Now he has to play, eat, talk, or committ crimes to get the boot. AH for the deal we have left to pay him is untradeable now unless an amazing offer came in. We wont get good value for him now because of the media speculation around the idea. So our best bet is to believe him and what he says until proven otherwise (He says he's not here because he's training with his people). Throwing away a player like AH is not a smart thing to do unless we get an offer we can't refuse or have a mess on our hands. There is no mess yet only thing I see is scared posters

[skinnyfan57]

Your right. The same system that only produced 26 sacks the season before was solely responsible for the dramatic jump in sacks with Big Al on the line. Seriously, adding Orakpo via the draft and AH via FA made for a helluva defensive improvement.

Well I agree that Orakpo had a lot to do with the increased number of sacks, considering that he was the one getting them and all. That "helluva defensive improvement" you speak of... Didn't our defense get significantly worse?

[skinnyfan57]

-I would say Orakpo had a lot more to do with it then Al.. and I'll pose the same question to you of the 22 sacks by our DE duo, how many do you think Albert was even in the game for?

No guesses? Did Mahons scare all of you guys off because you know he is about to refute the one defense you keep holding onto?

Let's see, you guys love to say...

-Played more snaps than ever before (but only if you ignore the 4 games he sat out.)

-Was responsible for the increased sack total (except that he really wasn't)

Combine that with a few real observances...

-Was out of shape last year

-Refuses to come to camp or workouts

-Gets hurt EVERY SINGLE GAME

-Calls out coaches

-Has mediocre stats of his own and far worse than in his contract years

-Jumps offsides against Atlanta when everyone knew they were just trying to draw us off. Extending their drive which ended up in a touchdown.

Ladies and gentlemen... the highest paid defensive player in NFL history!!!

What a joke.

[addicted]

No guesses? Did Mahons scare all of you guys off because you know he is about to refute the one defense you keep holding onto?

Read my posts, I gave lots of reasons for what I believe that has absolutely nothing to do with what McMahon said he knows. How the hell would I know if whatever number he claims is actually true or not unless I look at every single play of that miserable season again. NO THANK YOU. If he wants to try and say that Hanyesworth was only in on a couple of sacks and that means we can get rid of him then his opinion to me is meaningless.

Why?

Ever hear of a set up man?

In between watching all of that crap did you figure out how Albert impacted the opponants Offensive Line by beating them up and wearing them down which led to those sacks? Stats don't tell the entire story of the Defensive Linemen importance. If your trying to claim that AH was a complete waste then your wrong. If he was a waste no one would want him here, our sack totals wouldn't have doubled, and on and on. Numbers can be played with. How many plays was he in on all year compared to other linemen?

The fact is he helped the team exactly like he was asked to do. His only problem was him being out of shape and there being too much publicity and air time on that. The other problem is too many of you look at NFL.com stats and think you know something when you don't see past the numbers. Another problem is that too many people here are bored and like complaining. Some of you look at complaining and hating as an art form. And another problem is how so many Redskins fans act so negatively towards your own players while loving on other teams players, there is a major lack of loyality by the fan base towards our own players.

[boobiemiles]

I don't think that there have been many other posts than this one with which I disagree more.

He doesn't need to be coached? He shouldn't be at OTAs because football is violent?

Man, WTF are you talking about?

OTA is volutary workouts. You can choose to be there. A lot of people on in this forum feel Albert should be at camp. There was a poll on the Tailgate forum, and most people wouldn;t let their kids play football because it's to violent for their kid to play, but we want some one to go out and put their body on the line just because. If it's mandatory I can understand, because you are under contract, but to go through OTA's to make some one, or fans happy makes no sense period. We see that Albert breaks down. If you feel he breaks down because he is out of shape, fine. I think Albert takes a hell of a beating in the trenches. So if he can chill out, and take it easy, get ready for the season, and be a force when it counts I am all for it. I don't care if you disagree. But Albert was an All-pro, and pro bowler before. Are OTA's that important? Are they important enough to make you trade a player Al's skills? How much coaching does he need. It's over kill to me. Just like changing a defensive scheme that was successful, just because.

[TK]

If I were a mod....

Thankfully we'll never have to worry about that.

[NewCliche21]

Double post.

[NewCliche21]

Please. Did you see all the sacks Carter and Okrakpo had last season? Their production was the direct result of Fat Al being on the D-line.

And why would we trade away the most dominant d-linesman in the game? Especially after sinking $40M+ on the man and while we are only obligated to paying him a couple mil per season for the remainder of his contract (6yrs). ROI. It's not like he doesn't have a play book.

:beatdeadhorse:

BTW - Passing up Greg Williams for Zorn was the BIGGEST mistake we made in the past 10 years.

False and constantly debunked.

Go back and look at Orakpo's sacks. Look at who wasn't in for half of them, including his four-sack game.

I'll give you a hint: His name is in the subject line.

Funny that you accuse people of beating a dead horse when you're repeating incorrect facts.

. . . though I will go with you on the Williams/Zorn argument. Unless, of course, we get Super Bowls out of Shanahan.

[NewCliche21]

OTA is volutary workouts. You can choose to be there. A lot of people on in this forum feel Albert should be at camp. There was a poll on the Tailgate forum, and most people wouldn;t let their kids play football because it's to violent for their kid to play, but we want some one to go out and put their body on the line just because. If it's mandatory I can understand, because you are under contract, but to go through OTA's to make some one, or fans happy makes no sense period. We see that Albert breaks down. If you feel he breaks down because he is out of shape, fine. I think Albert takes a hell of a beating in the trenches. So if he can chill out, and take it easy, get ready for the season, and be a force when it counts I am all for it. I don't care if you disagree. But Albert was an All-pro, and pro bowler before. Are OTA's that important? Are they important enough to make you trade a player Al's skills? How much coaching does he need. It's over kill to me. Just like changing a defensive scheme that was successful, just because.

Paragraphs, please.

You go through OTAs because that's what the right thing is to do. If OTAs served no purpose, then there would be no OTAs.

Conditioning is the antithesis of "taking it easy", man.

Haynesworth is not a necessity on this 4-12 team. He is not Brian Orakpo, and that's the *ONLY* player that this defense needs. He can be traded for a fair value and kept if we can't get what we want for him. Yes, he's a good player, but he is not the definition of our defense and was, hopefully, the last big splash player that we ever sign.

[bulldog]

If I am not mistaken Carter had 10.5 sacks in 2007 for the Redskins.

Also, adding the #13 overall pick in the draft in Orakpo shows that his potential was rated blue-chip without consideration for playing with Haynesworth.

If the Redskins had acquired Julius Peppers in free agency that would also make things easier for Carter and Orakpo too, but I don't think that would have been a good move for the team.

I think what some people here are mistaken in is the belief that Haynesworth MADE Orakpo and Carter.

THAT is something I don't believe.

Carter's numbers were bound to go up in 2009 because he had Orakpo on the other side rushing the quarterback and he enjoyed less attention.

Did Haynesworth help? When he was active and on the field, yes.

But not to the point where Rak would have had a 3-4 sack season as a rookie folks

[Mahons21]

Read my posts, I gave lots of reasons for what I believe that has absolutely nothing to do with what McMahon said he knows. How the hell would I know if whatever number he claims is actually true or not unless I look at every single play of that miserable season again. NO THANK YOU. If he wants to try and say that Hanyesworth was only in on a couple of sacks and that means we can get rid of him then his opinion to me is meaningless.

-McMahons said he knows? Is that supposed to be an Irish jab? (I'm pretty sure such slurs go against a rule). You would know what I say is true or not, because I took the time to write out a post that shows visual evidence of every single sack Orakpo and Carter got without Haynesworth in the game. If you can't believe what's in front of your very two eyes than I don't know what you can believe.

Here is a link to it chief:

http://extremeskins.com/showpost.php?p=7531913&postcount=163

BTW it was 8 sacks, Haynesworth was in the game for all of 8 of the 22 sacks that Rak/Carter got.

-I never said Haynesworth was in only on a couple of sacks, so he is meaningless I challenged posters who claim that Orakpo and Carter only got sacks because of Haynesworth.

Why?

Ever hear of a set up man?

In between watching all of that crap did you figure out how Albert impacted the opponants Offensive Line by beating them up and wearing them down which led to those sacks? Stats don't tell the entire story of the Defensive Linemen importance. If your trying to claim that AH was a complete waste then your wrong. If he was a waste no one would want him here, our sack totals wouldn't have doubled, and on and on. Numbers can be played with. How many plays was he in on all year compared to other linemen?

-Please show me evidence of how you know he was a setup man other than your own personal opinion, which means absolute squat at the moment.

-Second I think your overstating the impact AH had on offensive tackles, who rarely blocked him. It is these same offensive tackles that Rak and Carter were beating, so please show me how Haynesworth constantly wore down the tackles of the opposing teams.

-No one said he was a waste, but our rookie who rushed the passer only 200 some times and had 11 sacks probably had a lot more to do with our pass rush than AH.

The fact is he helped the team exactly like he was asked to do. His only problem was him being out of shape and there being too much publicity and air time on that. The other problem is too many of you look at NFL.com stats and think you know something when you don't see past the numbers. Another problem is that too many people here are bored and like complaining. Some of you look at complaining and hating as an art form. And another problem is how so many Redskins fans act so negatively towards your own players while loving on other teams players, there is a major lack of loyality by the fan base towards our own players.

-I hate it when people over value specific players and in doing so negate other players.. So when I see people negating the great performance of our DE's I get riled up and defend them. In doing so, yes I do take some of the credit given to AH, and put it in its rightful place.

-I would argue that claiming haynesworth is the reason the other two got double digits sacks is the ultimate sign of lack of loyalty, it is getting credit to apathetic over paid DT, rather than core players like Carter/Rak who show up for everything and give it their all on the field.

[boobiemiles]

Paragraphs, please.

You go through OTAs because that's what the right thing is to do. If OTAs served no purpose, then there would be no OTAs.

Conditioning is the antithesis of "taking it easy", man.

Haynesworth is not a necessity on this 4-12 team. He is not Brian Orakpo, and that's the *ONLY* player that this defense needs. He can be traded for a fair value and kept if we can't get what we want for him. Yes, he's a good player, but he is not the definition of our defense and was, hopefully, the last big splash player that we ever sign.

We couldn't put any pressure on the qb before Al got here. There is a reason why Andre Carter, and Orakapo had good seasons. We can trade Al and see if he was the reason orf not. I don't want to find out. We have a premier DT. Why mess with that? I understand that OTA's can help him get in shape, so can P90X. If Al is deticated he will play at a high level. Look, the Giants use to complain Shockey didn't participate in OTA's. I'm sure that played a role in him getting traded to the Saints. And now Shockey is sitting with a ring on his finger and having the last laugh. OTA's shouldn't be the reason you trade some one. If a player is dedicated they can train by themselves.

[Mahons21]

We couldn't put any pressure on the qb before Al got here. There is a reason why Andre Carter, and Orakapo had good seasons.

-He was only in the game for 8 of their 22 sacks, all of 35%... Read the above post I have a link where I've given visual evidence of this. Stop exaggerating Al's performance to prove a point.