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Ramsey's Play


Phat Hog

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Was anyone else a bit bugged by the play of Ramsey ? He had throws that were clearly off, a lot of his completions were partially due to the receiver adjusting and making a good play - he also did have a few good throws, but he gets a C- from me for his play tonight.

Grant it he had plenty of Pats D in his face, but I thought that was one of his strong points... making the play under pressure.

Frankly, I just did not see much to make me say, "this guy is going to kick ass when the season starts"

I would like to see how he does in the next PS game, but I'm not encouraged at this point (a whole 2 preseason games :rolleyes:)

Maybe I'm just nuts... I can get with that! ;)

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welcome to the NFL :)

Ramsey has started FIVE games. How many games did it take for Brett Favre to become a major factor in the league? How about Troy Aikman? The first time he faced the Skins he lost 30-7 and had 4 interceptions :laugh:

We all expect Ramsey to be an asset in 2003 and I think he will be over the 16 games.

But expecting him to come out and hit everything and have the Skins offense look like the Air Coryell Offense right off the bat is a pipe dream.

You are going to see a qb see-saw back and forth, hitting the 60 yard TD bomb to Coles and then throwing the dumb pick late on an out pass and seeing a DB waltz the other way with an easy one.

That's just the way of it with 23 year old qbs.

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yeah - especially after seeing Byron Leftwich come in and tear it up yesterday it makes me feel that ramsey is still very, very raw. carson palmer at one point today was 7-7, though he's a rookie, I was definately waiting to see ramsey consistently lead a couple of strong drives without mishaps. We always see glimpses from Ramsey - we saw it last year in the preseason, then the Titans game, and in subsequent games as well, but he rarely put together a string of consistent drives. I'll be watching closely next week.

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and what's to say that the Jag's last game wasn't Leftwich's version of what Ramsey did in Tennessee in 2002? :)

it's easy coming in with no pressure and where there is an established starter and just doing your best with few expectations.

here Ramsey has never had a stable qb situation. he missed camp last year and started behind the 8 ball.

then he watched as other qbs here flamed out and he was thrown in.

I guarantee you if Leftwich was in JAX and there was no Brunell and he was pressured into starting the opener you would see a different player.

It's different under live fire :D

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I think a basic problem for Ramsey is that Spurier's offense puts so much more pressure on the qb. Qb's don't come through the system learning how to completely change the play on every single down if need be. The way that the qb is supposed to read the play is also very different from other systems. Also Palmer and Leftwich were going against the scrubs - Ramsey was going against a good first string that was putting tremendous pressure on him. Every qb has a couple slip out of their hand etc. The pass he made with the ne dl dragging him down showed a lot of toughness though. In the end, it seemed that Ramsey got a little rattled and was pressing. When you do that the opposition just blitzes more.

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Ramsey was uneven. Some good. Some bad. His worst play was actually a smart one. He attempted to throw the ball away and didn't get enough oomph on it. That was his pick. He even said as much when interviewed in the third or fourth quarter. I think he pressed a little at the very start of the game to try to make up for Carolina and adrenaline threw his throws off. Not satisfied with his play, but not disgusted either. Basically, he played much like the 'skins as a whole did. Played well enough to lose, but not get beaten. Last week the 'skins were beaten, this week they actually looked like the better team and found ways to lose.

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I thought Ramsey looked fine out there. Sure he made some bad passes, but he was facing what should be a top notch defense and a great defensive mind in Bellichek. Pat's going to have his share of good games and bad games being that he's still very young. We have much bigger concerns than Ramsey at this point.

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Originally posted by bleedblue

Prove me that when Week 4 comes around.

I expect the offense to look much better by the time week 4 comes around. Let's face it, most of the time we have 5 new starters on the field on offense at any given time and lots of the returning guys are pretty young. It's going to take time for them to gel.

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Perspective is important here gentlemen. Ramsey is young and inexperienced. It's ludicrous in the extreme to pine over solid performances by Leftwich and Palmer against second and third teamers, while wondering why Ramsey was so uneven. New England is the ideal defense to stop Spurrier's offense. New England is constantly shifting formations and disguising coverages. Unlike any other team in the league, Belichek will do ANYTHING to confuse you and change things up.

Ramsey is running a system that is more centered on the mental aspect of QB play than pretty much any other system out there. He has to know the proper checks based on the proper reads. It has to be natural to him and then he has to know how receivers can alter their routes even post-snap. He is taught not to look so much at the receivers, but to survey during his drops where the defense is as that will dictate in many cases where the receiver must be.

He's going to be uneven. He's going to make bad throws. He's going to make good throws. We are relying on him and it seems we are eager to forget things take time to develop in this league. Ramsey did complete 13 passes for 149 yards. That's exceptional. While he had some bad passes, he also had at least two more easy receptions dropped for firsts. The offense is showing a capacity to exploit openings for big gains.

Ramsey's arm strength has shown the ability to make plays most teams can't make, which opens the rest of the field up. In general, if yesterday was a bad game for Ramsey, we're going to be damn good this year. I was expecting a bad game from Ramsey to be more like 8 of 24 with a couple of picks and more of the dump off stuff.

I don't leave this game worrying about Ramsey at all. It's the preseason so it doesn't really help us much in evaluating exactly where he is. We just have to keep in mind that there will be games Ramsey is likely to blow for us this year. It's how many of those there are and how many of the other kind, where he carries us as he showed at times last year, that will determine where we will go as a team.

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Good post, Art. I would add that a picture speaks a thousand words, and the one on the Post webpage is a classic. It shows Ramsey with Vrabel hanging off him, and Ramsey's eyes are still looking downfield. I'm not worried about the mental grasp of the Spurrier system because I think you can see that has improved and will continue to do so. What does concern me to an extent are the references I keep seeing to pass rush pressure. I'm a little handicapped because I haven't seen the games, but are these defenses getting a push from the front four, or is the heat coming from blitz angles that the Skins might be able to clean up as we near the regular season? If it's the former, I'm a little concerned.

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Jansen is struggling with his blocking in the first two games. But, much of the pressure seems to be coming from blitz packages and we have the worst backs in the league at picking up the blitz. Just like last year in preseason at this time :).

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Yes, I agree... I'm not at all concerned with Ramsey's play. I expected some amazing throws, like the throw to Coles that looked like it was fired from a cannon, and some throws indicating poor touch and ball placement. Classic stuff for preseason really, especially from an offense which is deemed to be so much different than the classic WCO everyone is now running. I think the more Ramsey plays, the more it becomes instinctual and the better he performs. We should see a big difference from now until the start of the season. Remember, Spurrier is calling mainly passing plays so Ramsey can gain experience seeing the field, in the season the running plays will come more into play and defenses will not be able to just pin their ears back and blitz the kitchen sink.

As for the OL, classic "gelling" taking place. Add to that the fact that the defenses aren't respecting the run because we aren't focusing on the run, so they just tee off in perceived passing situations. All it takes is one blitz with the O executing a draw and Trung or Kenny or Ladell will take one to the endzone. The Pass/Run ratio will be much different as the season draws closer.

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Art's dead on. What I saw in this game was steady improvement overall, with more big plays by Ramsey. Has any QB hit more pass plays for more than 20 yards in the preseason than Ramsey?

Originally posted by Art

Jansen is struggling with his blocking in the first two games. But, much of the pressure seems to be coming from blitz packages and we have the worst backs in the league at picking up the blitz. Just like last year in preseason at this time :).

I'd add here that our TE's aren't exactly stellar blockers either. This is one area that our RB's and TE's definitely need to improve on given our desire to maximize the number of guys out in pass patterns.
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Patricks not the problem, and although I didn't see the game last night, I'm more concerned why he's not getting better protection. Neither Samuels nor Jansen seem to be having particularly good pre-seasons.....are they just laying off and saving it, and how bad does it hurt us if Moore doesn't come back early from his injury. How was our center play last night (those of you who saw the game?)???

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Wow, I guess I'm surprised about any unhappiness with Ramsey at this point in the preseason. 13 completions for 149 yards against the starters with a drop or two and one interception is cause for concern? Lets get real....that is a very good "preseason" effort for a Qb who's started five NFL games in his career.

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B&G--I looked at some of the Patriots' beat writers' accounts of the game, and they agree with you. There was lots of doom and gloom they found on both sides of the ball, including the 196 yards, 11 first downs, and 3rd down/4th down conversions their first team defense surrendered. Different eyes, different beholders.

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Ramsey is YOUNG! He's going to have his problems, particularly if this line doesn't buck up and start protecting him. I think PR's a bit rattled and wondering every time he's under center if the ball's going to fly over his head or if he's going to collapse under a 900lb defensive line, b/c our line has forgotten that he actually needs a little time to get rid of the football.

I think, before anyone goes and points a finger at PR, we need to turn the finger to the other culprits: the O-Line.

Ramsey is our qb. You see those pretty passes he makes. We give him protection and he's taking us to the Super Bowl, no doubt!

HTTR!!

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Patience, grasshoppers.

The Pats have a top notch defense. Even the best expereienced QBs are going to have "uneven" performances against defenses like that.

I didn't get to see the game. The question I have, for those who did see it, did Ramsey look flustered? I know he was hurried. And that will force some dubious decisions by an in experienced QB. But did he have a bewildered look about him? Or did he take the mistakes in stride? He sounded optimistic after the game.

Persistance might be the single most important quality a quarterback can have. Even with a half of play, it's hard to project that into a 60-minute regular season game. With the defense evening out and tightening up, and the running game picking up, it's quite possible Ramsey picks up the pace in the second half.

As far as the protection goes, it will improve. The talent level of the O-line is definately imroved. But they still need to learn to play together as a unit. But you also have to consider that the Skins have inexperienced tailbacks, fullbacks, and tight ends. Those guys are crucial to picking up blitzes. With experience, those guys will improve, also.

Looking at Tom Brady's Super Bowl run in '01 is instructive. He was inexperienced and uneven, but he was smart and persistant. He was able to learn as he played because he didn't force too many things. He was able to put a bad series behind him and move on. He was gradually able to see and do more things, and by the end of the season, was capable of leading his team on a Super Bowl-winning ddrive.

Ramsey seems to have a similar demeanor. He didn't come out of that game shell shocked. He can't wait to get out there again. I think it's okay for him to make mistakes and try things during the preseason. But the key to the regular season will be not to lose games. At first, anyway. When the defense finds its stride, and the pass protection tightens up, maybe then he can let loose a little more.

But expecting Ramsey to look like a polished veteran is kind of silly. I thought he did okay against what will be one of the better defensive units in the league. Ramsey's interception was costly, but he didn't blow a coverage on defense or special teams. That was the difference in the game. Not Ramsey's play.

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We need to be patient, he is a second year QB but did not play much in 2003.

IMHO he has more maturing to do, I just hope Spurrier and Mr. Snyder are patient.

IMHO I see another 8-8 type season and us making the playoffs with in in 2004. :fortune:

Not because I don't have faith in Ramsey, he needs a season another season to develope before he can go to the next level of NFL QBs.

Just because it worked for the Rams with Warner in 1999 and Brady with the Patriots in 2001 does not mean it will work for Ramsey in 2003.

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