dockeryfan Posted April 19, 2010 Share Posted April 19, 2010 I have no problem with Kiper, really. I mean he used to be laughed at by GMs and scouting staff, but now he isn't. Why? It's not that he's a better eye for talent. He isn't. It's not that he's somehow recognizing talent that no one else sees. He doesn't. It's that he's super organized. He compiles the opinions of all the coaches he talks to, all the scouts he talks to, etc. and puts it in a very digestible format. It's the organization that teams respect, not the eye for talent. (This is why it's so laughable that people would think someone like Snyder should ever be in a position to evaluate talent on the field. If GMs still look at Kiper with the slant eye and think HE can't evaluate talent... On a side note, that's why I am so excited about the Philly situation. They elevated a guy who has absolutely no pedigree in Howie Roseman to be the GM. Never been of charge of a draft, never run a war room, never done anything except work numbers. My problem with Kiper is that he's a Baltimore fan, and very much a Baltimore apologist. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
da#1skinsfan Posted April 19, 2010 Share Posted April 19, 2010 If someone is bashing another person who's daily job is to make predictions regarding the NFL, and they have to go back 15 years to include evidence...I'd say hes doing pretty well. I dont think Kiper is all that great but I bet you could find 50 quotes in 50 minutes that were dead on...he's an analyst, he'll make mistakes and he'll hit some dead on. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sideshow24 Posted April 19, 2010 Share Posted April 19, 2010 This thread title would make a friend named Bill curl into the fetal position and suck his thumb. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dan T. Posted April 19, 2010 Share Posted April 19, 2010 You also say easily could compile a list... then do so I would really like to see a list of quoted statements of Bill parcells repeatedly saying things along the lines of "see you at this guys hall of fame induction" for players of similar circumstance. The one I can think of off the top of my head is Parcells telling some college kid named Chris Cooley that the Cowboys won't draft him because he would never amount to much in the NFL. The point being that nobody bats a thousand in evaluating talent. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SkindaNFC Posted April 19, 2010 Author Share Posted April 19, 2010 If reading the Forum Rules makes me an expert, then you and everyone else should be an expert, too. I was just trying to give you a heads up before the mods have to say something. Any-hoo... I said thanks and basically asked where you got yours, I appreciate the heads up. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jimbo Posted April 19, 2010 Share Posted April 19, 2010 I've been watching Mel since the early days of ESPN and while he used to come off as a little arrogant, I don't see that in him so much anymore. He has made draft analysis his life's work and, like ALL the personnel guys who are actually paid by NFL teams, occasionally misses the mark. Drafting is not now, nor ever will be, an exact science. The hardest part of the business is not only being able to tell if a guy's college game can transition to the NFL game but, how effective can he be once he makes that transition. As long as human beings with human frailties are involved, drafting will be closer to fortune telling than the truth. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SkindaNFC Posted April 19, 2010 Author Share Posted April 19, 2010 I just hate how everyone is on his Junk, and this only feeds his ego. Yes he may be not batting a thousand and he maybe better or worse than some nfl scouting personnel. But when your a self proclaimed genius you better be hitting more than you miss. For example, say your doctor says hes a genius surgeon, you want him batting .400 when it comes to surgeries? I doubt it. Everyone in the business treats him as if he were infalable but everytime I read some article they always reference what Kiper said as if it were fact, when its just really speculation. The last thing I would want to be is him. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dan T. Posted April 19, 2010 Share Posted April 19, 2010 I just hate how everyone is on his Junk, and this only feeds his ego. Yes he may be not batting a thousand and he maybe better or worse than some nfl scouting personnel. But when your a self proclaimed genius you better be hitting more than you miss. For example, say your doctor says hes a genius surgeon, you want him batting .400 when it comes to surgeries? I doubt it. Everyone in the business treats him as if he were infalable but everytime I read some article they always reference what Kiper said as if it were fact, when its just really speculation. The last thing I would want to be is him. Who treats Kiper as if he were infallible? Who regards his opinion as fact? When did Kiper proclaim himself a genius? Why are you making stuff up? Who in their right mind would compare the success rate of a surgeon with an NFL draft commentator? These are some questions I would like answers for. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rufus T Firefly Posted April 19, 2010 Share Posted April 19, 2010 Who treats Kiper as if he were infallible? Who regards his opinion as fact? When did Kiper proclaim himself a genius? Why are you making stuff up? Who in their right mind would compare the success rate of a surgeon with an NFL draft commentator? These are some questions I would like answers for. I'm pretty sure the answer would be one of his original thoughts like "'Tis a far, far better thing that I do, than I have ever done;". And he repeatedly claims that Kiper is wrong "the majority" of the time. Yet, 3 pages into this thread, the entire volume of evidence presented is 5 mistakes from Kiper, one of which (that he based the Faulk pick) is actually wrong. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jnhay Posted April 19, 2010 Share Posted April 19, 2010 The mere fact that he can talk about every single drafted player in great detail should be enough to get him some respect. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pjfootballer Posted April 19, 2010 Share Posted April 19, 2010 He was the main guy for the longest time. He was never thought of as a guy who could be wrong since he was the only game in town. Now, there are alot of draft gurus and they all bring out his flaws. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Skins-Canes-Mounties Posted April 19, 2010 Share Posted April 19, 2010 His job is to interpret tea leaves. Just look at what BA has said and done regarding the draft over the last few weeks and months. Now Shannahan won't even admit that LT is a glaring need. Then multiply that by 32. Nobody can predict the draft accurately. Mel is a walking encyclopedia of draft prospects. I think he's great. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mercuryrising Posted April 19, 2010 Share Posted April 19, 2010 I thought that Kiper's criticism of the Colts was for their selection of Trev Alberts, not Marshall Faulk. That is correct, it was Alberts not Faulk. This piece was just a hit job. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mercuryrising Posted April 19, 2010 Share Posted April 19, 2010 I guess we should just have the draft in silence... just announce the picks and go back to silence. Nobody making predictions, noboady evaluating the players, because they might be wrong sometimes..... My big complaint is in later rounds, when they don't even talk about the palyers selected but keep going over what happened in round 1. Last year we did not get any of our Redskins guys covered in later rounds because they just kept beating the Sanchez trade to death over and over...... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dan T. Posted April 19, 2010 Share Posted April 19, 2010 I guess we should just have the draft in silence... just announce the picks and go back to silence. Nobody making predictions, noboady evaluating the players, because they might be wrong sometimes..... ...... That might actually be better than the relentless hype machine that the NFL draft has become. It's a draft. It's not the fricking Super Bowl. But the endless, months-long hype, mock drafts, top pick lists, breathless commentary, breaking rumors, etc. etc. etc. seems like overkill. Except that - apparently - there's an audience for it. It points to the popularity of the NFL that people lap this stuff up in the offseason, that people will actually gather to watch the NFL draft on TV, and that guys like Mel Kiper can carve out a CAREER by talking endlessly about it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mercuryrising Posted April 19, 2010 Share Posted April 19, 2010 That might actually be better than the relentless hype machine that the NFL draft has become. It's a draft. It's not the fricking Super Bowl. But the endless, months-long hype, mock drafts, top pick lists, breathless commentary, breaking rumors, etc. etc. etc. seems like overkill. Except that - apparently - there's an audience for it. It points to the popularity of the NFL that people lap this stuff up in the offseason, that people will actually gather to watch the NFL draft on TV, and that guys like Mel Kiper can carve out a CAREER by talking endlessly about it. I agree that the hype needs to be toned down several notches. I like information, not hype, and Mayock and Kiper are pretty good about giving you information on players. Other guys are stepping up too, like Charles Davis. For me the perfect coverage would be informing us who was selected, let an analyst talk about the player and break down some film of him, then talk about how he fits the teams plans until the next pick comes in. What I don't want is talk about Tebow all through all the other picks from round 2-7, but I know that is what I am going to get. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pjfootballer Posted April 20, 2010 Share Posted April 20, 2010 I don't know about you guys, but I'm so sick of the hype. I think it was about March 15 when I started getting sick of the draft hype. It takes WAY too long to get to the draft. I think all these damn pro days need to go away also. I mean, take the 3 QB's. Combined they missed 5 passes out of 200. Easy to do when you don't have 5 fatties chasing you in the pocket. JUST DRAFT ALREADY. Damn, I'm getting sick of Path to the Draft and all the other BS. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dan T. Posted April 20, 2010 Share Posted April 20, 2010 I don't know about you guys, but I'm so sick of the hype. I think it was about March 15 when I started getting sick of the draft hype. It takes WAY too long to get to the draft. I think all these damn pro days need to go away also. I mean, take the 3 QB's. Combined they missed 5 passes out of 200. Easy to do when you don't have 5 fatties chasing you in the pocket. JUST DRAFT ALREADY. Damn, I'm getting sick of Path to the Draft and all the other BS. It is a bit of overkill, isn't it? If or when you watch the actual draft, notice all the manufactured excitement - the 4 or 5 different scrolls on the screen, the video highlights, the background music, the breathless analysis, the crowd shots of the loonies attending in NY... It's marketing genius that they've turned a fundamentally boring excercise into a television event. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SkindaNFC Posted April 21, 2010 Author Share Posted April 21, 2010 Who treats Kiper as if he were infallible? Who regards his opinion as fact? When did Kiper proclaim himself a genius? Why are you making stuff up? Who in their right mind would compare the success rate of a surgeon with an NFL draft commentator? These are some questions I would like answers for. I only compared them because they are getting paid the same. You gonna get paid that much you better be right. You ask who? There is a small newspaper in Washington DC called the Washington post, check they're website. Rick Maese recently did a huge spread. Jason Reid constantly putting video's of Mel Kiper interviews, his articles are always littered with Mel Kiper garbage. Sorry I didn't write the date and time when he says everything. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SkindaNFC Posted April 21, 2010 Author Share Posted April 21, 2010 That is correct, it was Alberts not Faulk. This piece was just a hit job. Yes I acknowledge I was wrong about that. But I guess its not ok for me to be wrong but its ok for Mel Kiper?!? Yes there are only 5 listed items and I'm sure if I was an ESPN insider I could dig up more, but that is not the case. At the same time I'm not going to put up 100 quotes to prove my point. The most dramatic ones should suffice. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MattFancy Posted April 21, 2010 Share Posted April 21, 2010 I feel like I saw these all last year. Kiper pretty much started the whole "mock draft" craziness that we know and love. He also got people to tune into the draft. Without him, people wouldn't care nearly as much about the draft. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stoney26 Posted April 21, 2010 Share Posted April 21, 2010 Yeeaahhh....... OK, Skippy. If you are seriously suggesting that what you posted would be read by anyone as "The following is me quoting someone else's opinions" then you're either a liar or a fool. Lol I thought it was pretty obvious he was quoting someone else. Most posters dont put quotation marks on their own thoughts. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KingGibbs Posted April 21, 2010 Share Posted April 21, 2010 Love Mel. The guy seems to know everything about every college player out there from intangibles to physical attributes. Mel and Mike Mayock are the two guys I enjoy listening to, watching and reading up on. Has the OP been able to scrape the egg off their face? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fdarugar Posted April 21, 2010 Share Posted April 21, 2010 i like mel, he looks like my uncle and count dracula...he talks about the draft and slicks his hair back. whats not to like? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rufus T Firefly Posted April 21, 2010 Share Posted April 21, 2010 Lol I thought it was pretty obvious he was quoting someone else. Most posters dont put quotation marks on their own thoughts. The quote marks weren't there originally. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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