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Official Bring Back BDW Thread


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Well, the early results are in and they are telling indeed. Now, I know it's preseason, but there are basic, fundamental things that can be gleaned from preseason games such as can this team stop the run? Can this team tackle? Can this team block?

Well, I'd have to give a big fat NO on those first two and an even bigger, fatter, MAYBE on that third one.

Point is, this team needs some major girth in the middle of the D-line and I'm sorry but James Cannida is not the answer. Those guys got pushed around all night, not to mention missed assignments and over-running plays.

Anyway, we got rid of BDW's huge contract and that has opened the door to talks with Champ, which was the whole point right?

BDW hasn't sniffed a deal worth anywhere near to what we offered him from anyone else so it seems to me that the solution is clear--Get BDW back in here, make amends, tell him we're sorry for overpaying him for five years and that we didn't mean to hurt his feelings, and SIGN HIM!!! PLEASE, BEFORE IT'S TOO LATE...

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for $2 million I think there will be a vet or two that gets released between now and the opener for us to consider. I would NOT bring back Wilkinson at this point.

his work ethic is questionable and he is mercurial guy. whether he would be motivated as he should be for a new contract elsewhere in the NFL for 2004 after a solid season here is anyone's guess.

If Traylor or another vet becomes available for a mid to late draft pick I would rather do that, even though I am usually against trading future picks.

Wilkinson is a guy that we have expected much from and he has let us down often.

Last year the defense may not have best suited his talents, but coming to camp 30 pounds overweight caused him to get into Spurrier's doghouse from the get go.

It compromised him during the season and he ended up on IR.

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Bulldog, from all the reports, it seemed that BDW was in great shape this offseason and had come to camp ready to work.

Frankly, at this point, I don't care about his attitude, I don't care if he carries an enormous grudge against Dan Snyder. What I do care about is that our D-line sucks and WILL NOT be able to stop the run this year, especially when you look at the backs we have to play-- Ricky Williams, Deuce McCallister, Tiki, they'll run all over us.

Yes, I would rather have Traylor too, but that's a big IF. And if not him, then who??? Who do you envision getting released in the next three weeks who will be worth $2 million? I just don't think it's going to happen.

IMO, Wilky is worth $2 million, and lined up next to one of those other retreads-- Haley, Noble, Holsey-- the middle won't be half bad. You talk about motivation. Well this is a contract year for BDW and he's got one more big contract in his career so this is the year he's got to play well so he can get paid one last time. Sounds like good motivation to me, remember how hungry Gardener was last year?

I am not comfortable with the let's see who drops out in the next three weeks approach. I would rather suck it up, and sign back BDW b/c it's going to be an absolute shame if this season is lost b/c this team can't stop the run. And right now, I think that's where we're headed.

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I originally had that view as well, to see what #95 comes up with in a contract year :)

The Skins didn't think along those lines and decided to go in another direction. It is rare for players to resign with clubs that release them with years left on their contracts, if a restructuring has not previously been agreed to.

To me from a face-saving perspective, neither the Skins nor Wilkinson himself seem motivated to offer an olive branch and try to patch things up.

Cerrato flat out said the Skins rush defense has been mediocre while Wilkinson was here and you KNOW that #95 and his agent read those comments.

Can you believe him coming back here now?

I don't see it.

Athletes are proud. He would rather sign for $1 million somewhere else than come back here and accept $2 million, thereby acknowledging that he was overpaid at $3.5 million :)

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Originally posted by bulldog

Wilkinson is a guy that we have expected much from and he has let us down often.

I beg to differ. I'd say BDW has been a solid (not stellar) pro since he's been here. Overweight? Yes. Did it hurt him last year? Probably. Could he help us? Definitely.

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The problem I have here is the thought that bringing in Wilkinson actually helps stop the run. It doesn't. Now, Wilkinson playing like he did in 2001 for the final 11 weeks or so helps against the run. But, for the most part, Wilkinson's strength is not against the run, but by getting some pressure up the middle and when he's right, pushing the guard back into the backfield.

In terms of simply playing the run, I'd prefer Haley in there, because he's said to have that as a relative strength of his game. I want Wilkinson back because I think we need a guy who's a bit stronger in the gaps than we have now and Wilkinson fits that bill perfectly. But, anyone thinking signing him makes us a stronger run defense is more wishful than anything. If Wilkinson is going REALLY well, he can impact the running game by great penetration, but, we've only seen that aspect of his game in one season on any consistent basis.

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thanks, Art. I have been trying to convince folks that Wilkinson is not Dave Butz vs. the run, but nobody seems to want to believe me :)

I agree that Wilkinson was the only DT the Skins had on the roster that had proven pass rush skills. And that will be missed.

Haley does set up to be a better run player. I don't know where FanSince62 and others come up with the notion that Haley at 315 is small or not physically capable of taking on the centers and guards at this level. He did just that in Miami, albeit in a supporting rather than full-time starting role.

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I agree with you Bulldog. Haley is plenty big enough and he's said to be the strongest player on the team. There's no problem with his size or his ability to play the run. His problem is he lacks skills to get into a gap and force his way into the backfield as Wilkinson can do.

It's irrational to think signing Wilkinson is going to necessarily equate into an improvement in terms of stopping the run. However, I had envisioned Noble and Haley playing the same role and rotating time. Therefore, bringing Wilkinson in would be a better complement to them than they are to each other.

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Slight panic starting here i feel, Wynn played inside an saturaday, not his usual position, and Upshaw and Smith didn't play, plus it was the 1st game, lat's all calm down a little, we have just signed James Cannida so let's see if he can add anything.

If it still looks bad by Wk 3-4 of pre season im sure the FO will add someone else into the mix either via trade or FA pick-up in the cuts.

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if the current group does not gel and Wilky goes elsewhere, the Skins are going to have to get lucky. Chances are a Gardener is not going to be released this time around to bail us out :)

we may get a veteran with a name that is released and we have to hope in that case we can squeeze one more year out of him until we can properly address the DL in the 2004 draft.

if we choose a running back or linebacker with our #1 pick next year I am going to scream :)

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Wilkenson is horrible against the run.. And last year when he played he wasn't so good against the pass either.. No way we should bring him back... He was a bust in the NFL from day 1.

Vince Wilfolk, Tommy Harris, Randy Starks in next years draft and next year we may make a run

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RTerps,

Wilkinson was not a bust. He wasn't as good as a top pick in the draft could be, but he was a long-time starter, who was productive and often good. He was a four-time alternate to the Pro Bowl and has had very good moments as a Pro. A bust is not a guy who's got as many games and starts under his belt as Big Daddy. A bust is a guy who has all the chances as an early pick, still can't perform and is out of the league by the time he's 26.

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Originally posted by Art

I agree with you Bulldog. Haley is plenty big enough and he's said to be the strongest player on the team. There's no problem with his size or his ability to play the run.

Art, did you see the game? Did you actually see what happened, or did you just hear it, read about it?

If Haley is so great at stopping the run, well then where the hell was he on any of those three plays where Davis tore right through the middle of the line? If Haley is so adept at playing the run, then why the hell did Davis shred the middle of our line, while Haley was playing mind you, for 74 yards on 7 carries???

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Originally posted by MAP16

Art, did you see the game? Did you actually see what happened, or did you just hear it, read about it?

If Haley is so great at stopping the run, well then where the hell was he on any of those three plays where Davis tore right through the middle of the line? If Haley is so adept at playing the run, then why the hell did Davis shred the middle of our line, while Haley was playing mind you, for 74 yards on 7 carries???

MAP,

I haven't seen the game yet and I won't probably until early next week even. But that changes very little of what we know. Haley is plenty big enough to play tackle. He's said to be the strongest guy on the team. He's reported to be stronger against the run than in pass rush. And, Big Daddy Wilkinson has NEVER been good against the run. It's not the nature of his game. If he's right he can blow up a running game, but that's not the same as being strong at the point and being consistently able to stop the running game.

I've heard a lot of differing views on the game and Davis' performance. Ranging from guys in position and missing tackles to backers and safeties overrunning the plays to Zellner making a screw up to any number of things. And in any case little of it matters at this moment in time because we were short of some starters and key reserves for the game.

Matt Bowen, presumably, saw the game and felt it wasn't that guys were blocked so much as they got through the blockers, hit Davis and didn't wrap up well. That's not good, by any stretch, but, it's a different thing than being pushed around and blown out of the play. On at least one of Davis' good runs, he was stopped at the middle, and bounced around through an opening.

On another, which we have a picture of on this board somewhere, Armstead appears to have overrun the play and is circling back to get back to Davis. In any case, no matter what the root issue was, and it could well have been sheer dominance, the fix isn't Big Daddy. I want him back but not because I'm under any illusion he'll actually improve our potential run defense. Rather, he provides a different sort of tackle who would fit well in a rotation next to guys like Haley and Noble who are essentially the same sort of player.

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Well before there is any talk of bringing back BDW, the FO has to figure out how to make the move cost effective. At this point neither side is going to tap the other side on the shoulder with it's tail between it's legs. I wouldn't mind if we resigned BDW, but how much he is going to try to demand is what I am afraid of, and I am afraid that a knee-jerk reaction might cause the FO to cave in and meet any demands BDW has.

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I'm with the Bulldog on this one. To hell with bringing Big Daddy back. :pooh: :paranoid: Damn I wish that guy who walks Bulldog, would pick up after him.

Anyway, if Big Daddy could only manage 17 tackles and no sacks last year with Gardener next to him being double-teamed, this year he would likely be completely invisible.

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