Glenn Greenwald (salon.com): The GOP's "small government" tea party fraud

[ACW]

http://www.salon.com/news/opinion/glenn_greenwald/2010/02/21/libertarianism/index.html

via reason.com, which excerpted this:

The Party that spat contempt at Paul during the Bush years and was diametrically opposed to most of his platform now pretends to share his views. Standard-issue Republicans and Ron Paul libertarians are as incompatible as two factions can be -- recall that the most celebrated right-wing moment of the 2008 presidential campaign was when Rudy Giuliani all but accused Paul of being an America-hating Terrorist-lover for daring to suggest that America's conduct might contribute to Islamic radicalism [...]

This is what Republicans always do. When in power, they massively expand the power of the state in every realm. Deficit spending and the national debt skyrocket. The National Security State is bloated beyond description through wars and occupations, while no limits are tolerated on the Surveillance State. Then, when out of power, they suddenly pretend to re-discover their "small government principles." The very same Republicans who spent the 1990s vehemently opposing Bill Clinton's Terrorism-justified attempts to expand government surveillance and executive authority then, once in power, presided over the largest expansion in history of those very same powers. The last eight years of Republican rule was characterized by nothing other than endlessly expanded government power, even as they insisted -- both before they were empowered and again now -- that they are the standard-bearers of government restraint. [...]

But that GOP limited government rhetoric is simply never matched by that Party's conduct, especially when they wield power. The very idea that a political party dominated by neocons, warmongers, surveillance fetishists, and privacy-hating social conservatives will be a party of "limited government" is absurd on its face. There literally is no myth more transparent than the Republican Party's claim to believe in restrained government power. For that reason, it's only a matter of time before the fundamental incompatibility of the "tea party movement" and the political party cynically exploiting it is exposed.

[GibbsFactor]

Pretty much.

[ThinSkin]

Hmmmm...And they say I post articles by overtly partisan authors.:doh:

[ACW]

Hmmmm...And they say I post articles by overtly partisan authors.:doh:

Elaborate.

Can you REALLY disagree with this?

[Larry]

Oh, it's been obvious for decades that "small government" means "I believe that corporations should be exempt from all laws, and that all social safety nets should be eliminated."

[ThinSkin]

Honestly, I don't care to debate anything that clown Greenwald writes. If I'm not mistaken, he's the go to guy after Markos over at Dailykos, so that tells you where his heads at. OK, I'll comment on one thing in the article. Liberals now think we conservatives love us some Ron Paul because he was voted #1 in the CPAC straw poll. Nothing could be further from the truth. I can't really explain why he won, except maybe to say a whole passel of Libertarians infiltrated the convention this year. I don't want to offend Libertarians on this board, because we share many views on issues, but we also disagree on many. I hate to post and run, but I must. I will respond to queries tomorrow, should there be any.

[skinfan133]

Honestly, I don't care to debate anything that clown Greenwald writes. If I'm not mistaken, he's the go to guy after Markos over at Dailykos, so that tells you where his heads at. OK, I'll comment on one thing in the article. Liberals now think we conservatives love us some Ron Paul because he was voted #1 in the CPAC straw poll. Nothing could be further from the truth. I can't really explain why he won, except maybe to say a whole passel of Libertarians infiltrated the convention this year. I don't want to offend Libertarians on this board, because we share many views on issues, but we also disagree on many. I hate to post and run, but I must. I will respond to queries tomorrow, should there be any.

A Libertarian is a member of the Libertarian Party. A libertarian is a person who espouses a political philosophy of economic conservatism and social liberalism (for the most part)

judging from what I've seen of your posts, you and I agree on nothing. Your Palin sticker pretty much confirms that in my mind. I despise Palin even more than Hillary Clinton, she is the most disingenuous, stupid, ignorant, piece of crap on the right today.

I despise neo "conservatives" like you more than any liberal. At least liberals are marginally dedicated to personal Liberty. Jefferson would be ashamed of the conservative movement today.

[ThinSkin]

A Libertarian is a member of the Libertarian Party. A libertarian is a person who espouses a political philosophy of economic conservatism and social liberalism (for the most part)

judging from what I've seen of your posts, you and I agree on nothing. Your Palin sticker pretty much confirms that in my mind. I despise Palin even more than Hillary Clinton, she is the most disingenuous, stupid, ignorant, piece of crap on the right today.

I despise neo "conservatives" like you more than any liberal. At least liberals are marginally dedicated to personal Liberty. Jefferson would be ashamed of the conservative movement today.

Palin, because of her lack of polish, might not be the one to lead the GOP in 2012, but she's a good person, and her ideas for the future of America are sound. As for you, a 20 year old, who, it's a safe bet to say, has never had any REAL life experiences, never had a REAL job, never raised a family, never owned a home and had to pay a mortgage, is more than likely being supported by Mommy and Daddy or the government,..... well,... your opinion doesn't mean sh*t to me.

[SkinsHokieFan]

Can't disagree with the article (despite my voting pattern since 18)

Which is partially why I hope the GOP doesn't re-take power in Congress in 2010, I don't think the leadership has been purged of the right wing statists that ran the place from 1998ish-2006, expanding government at every turn.

However, a "party of no" and even more gridlock is badly needed to prevent the Democrats from going completely crazy in Washington during the next Congress.

[skinfan133]

Palin, because of her lack of polish, might not be the one to lead the GOP in 2012, but she's a good person, and her ideas for the future of America are sound. As for you, a 20 year old, who, it's a safe bet to say, has never had any REAL life experiences, never had a REAL job, never raised a family, never owned a home and had to pay a mortgage, is more than likely being supported by Mommy and Daddy or the government,..... well,... your opinion doesn't mean sh*t to me.

very well, I'll live with the fact you're fascist, you live with the fact that I'm an ROTC college student instead of being out in the REAL world. what to you is REAL life? I've had a whole bunch of adversity in my life already, just even being able to BE here at school has been supremely difficult. :finger:

[AsburySkinsFan]

Been saying this for several years now.

[AsburySkinsFan]

your opinion doesn't mean **** to me.

BTW circumventing profanity filters is against the rules here at ES.

http://www.extremeskins.com/announcement.php?f=24

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[aREDSKIN]

Oh, it's been obvious for decades that "small government" means "I believe that corporations should be exempt from all laws, and that all social safety nets should be eliminated."

Speaking of overtly partisan authors. Come on L Get real. Surely you have an ounce of objectiveness in you.

[AsburySkinsFan]

very well, I'll live with the fact you're fascist, you live with the fact that I'm an ROTC college student instead of being out in the REAL world. what to you is REAL life? I've had a whole bunch of adversity in my life already, just even being able to BE here at school has been supremely difficult. :finger:

Don't sweat him, the fallacy that he uses shows what he's about, "you're wrong because you're young" LOL...I guess we should only be listening to bitter old farts then after all they are the one's who solve all the worlds problems sitting around the checker board in the back of the 5 and dime.

[sacase]

Oh, it's been obvious for decades that "small government" means "I believe that corporations should be exempt from all laws, and that all social safety nets should be eliminated."

Here is the problem with the whole social programs thing. When Humas were tribal, everyone pitched in and helped everyone else out. If someone didn't have food they got it from someone else, if someone was hurt, the tribe took up for them, however there were no lazy people in the tribe. However with society now, people are looking to get over any chance they get. I know a couple people who are out of work and say, why work, I am getting paid. When my benifits run out, then I will start looking. They look at this as a paid vacation.

We really need to start to reevaluate some of our social programs. If you get paid unemployment then maybe you need to work 4 days a week doing things the city needs done, such as cleaning up little sweeping streets or pretty much any unskilled labor. If you are on welfare, same thing applies. Society needs to get some benifit out of the social programs they are handing out to people.

[Larry]

Here is the problem with the whole social programs thing. [and the rest of the post]

Oh, I'll agree. I've known people myself who (IMO) have really abused things like unemployment. People of all kinds of economic classes.

I think that some serious reform in some ways is really overdue. And have thought so for all of my adult life. I voted pretty much straight Republican for 20 years, because I thought that reforming welfare was the biggest priority we had.

(I changed my mind when the Republican Party decided that their biggest priority was expanding the government's power to impose morality.)

But, I also think that there's a huge difference between reforming the safety net, and eliminating it.

[skinfan133]

Don't sweat him, the fallacy that he uses shows what he's about, "you're wrong because you're young" LOL...I guess we should only be listening to bitter old farts then after all they are the one's who solve all the worlds problems sitting around the checker board in the back of the 5 and dime.

I don't put too much stock into it, it just amazes me that so many people are falling head over heals for "conservative" Palin. She's even worse than a fascist: she's a stupid fascist.

[Burgold]

However, a "party of no" and even more gridlock is badly needed to prevent the Democrats from going completely crazy in Washington during the next Congress.

Why do you think this? With a 60 person supermajority the Democrats were able to obstruct themselves pretty much all on their own. Dems don't need an opposition party for gridlock

[Madison Redskin]

Palin, because of her lack of polish, might not be the one to lead the GOP in 2012, but she's a good person, and her ideas for the future of America are sound. As for you, a 20 year old, who, it's a safe bet to say, has never had any REAL life experiences, never had a REAL job, never raised a family, never owned a home and had to pay a mortgage, is more than likely being supported by Mommy and Daddy or the government,..... well,... your opinion doesn't mean sh*t to me.

Sorry to threadjack, but what exactly are Palin's ideas? She's a robot who spits out talking points in a folks manner with a wink and a smile. When she goes off the script, she exposes herself as a total idiot.

[aREDSKIN]

I don't put too much stock into it, it just amazes me that so many people are falling head over heals for "conservative" Palin. She's even worse than a fascist: she's a stupid fascist.

I'd submit that she's too stupid to even be a fascist. All sound bites, pretty presentation and nothing of substance that comes out of her mouth. But the gullible American voter gobbles her up like chocolate.

[EersSkins05]

I'd submit that she's too stupid to even be a fascist. All sound bites, pretty presentation and nothing of substance that comes out of her mouth. But the gullible American voter gobbles her up like chocolate.

I wouldn't say that American voters are gobbling her up. I know a great number of registered Republicans that either stayed home or voted for Obama for the simple reason that Sarah Palin was a vice-presidential candidate.

She's never been elected to any national office and remains in the mainstream only because of the fact that she's so polarizing. (And might be the dumbest person ever to run for a major national office.)

[ThinSkin]

Sorry to threadjack, but what exactly are Palin's ideas? She's a robot who spits out talking points in a folks manner with a wink and a smile. When she goes off the script, she exposes herself as a total idiot.

To avoid a threadjack, I'll start a new thread listing Palin's political positions.

[AsburySkinsFan]

Here is the problem with the whole social programs thing. When Humas were tribal, everyone pitched in and helped everyone else out. If someone didn't have food they got it from someone else, if someone was hurt, the tribe took up for them, however there were no lazy people in the tribe. However with society now, people are looking to get over any chance they get. I know a couple people who are out of work and say, why work, I am getting paid. When my benefits run out, then I will start looking. They look at this as a paid vacation.

We really need to start to reevaluate some of our social programs. If you get paid unemployment then maybe you need to work 4 days a week doing things the city needs done, such as cleaning up little sweeping streets or pretty much any unskilled labor. If you are on welfare, same thing applies. Society needs to get some benifit out of the social programs they are handing out to people.

You may want to sit down for this, but I agree. I watched the people in Guatemala work very hard for very little with no social programs to assist them, and while I don't want to do away with our social assistance there has to be reforms that put people to work for what they are receiving.

[Vicious]

her ideas for the future of America are sound.

Really? How about her foreign policy and economic policy, are those sound? please explain.