Brett81 Posted February 23, 2010 Share Posted February 23, 2010 Okay.You think JC has reached his ceiling (despite having his best year under possibly the worst circumstances for a QB) and you think a rookie will have a higher ceiling. Didn't the Lions go 0-16 2 years ago? Try being a rookie QB taken first overall in the draft and that's what you walk into...I'm thinking that trumps JC not being able to overcome his obstacles. Plus, JC's best year ever as a NFL QB is still mediocre in production at best. He also had 14 INT's, which is just under 1 a game. When you consider he ended 2 games throwing picks instead of scoring the game winning TD or FG, that makes me think he isn't ready to lead his team when they need him too. JC has never carried the team on his back when they needed him to, and that's why so many of us fans are let down by him. There comes a time when you have to step up as a starting QB and produce for your team, win a game for them...he just keeps faltering and falling short. The counterargument for Ben that everyone seems to skip over is how many broken protections has he escaped from? Plays where any other QB would have been sacked if he was smaller or less mobile? Is it a coincidence that when the two best players on our line left (Faneca and Marvel Smith), Ben's average sack total doubled in every year? Thanks for your insight into the Steelers. My boss is also a Steeler fan, has a terrible towel in his office and wore it at the christmas party fund raiser and he says the same things as you have said. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Buck812 Posted February 23, 2010 Share Posted February 23, 2010 Roethlisburger brakes more tackles than any other QB in the league that I've seen coming out of the pocket. Idk... If he only got hit 31 times that he didnt get sacked and still got sacked 50 times then thats not breaking a lot of tackes comparitivly. That stat is baically proving that more times than not, if you get your hands on him then hes going down. Of all the QBs that got hit a lot, it looks as if he had the least chance of breaking the tackle of any of them. Thats one of the points in this stat that jumps right out at you. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
grego Posted February 23, 2010 Share Posted February 23, 2010 I'm just going to ignore you from here on out, because your argument is a pathetically specious one that looks at QB rating (which I already showed is a flawed stat) and tries to paint that as Jason Campbell being a top 15 quarterback without any context to go with it. By CONSTANTLY harping on his top 15 rating - you are implying that he is a top 15 quarterback, when advanced stats as well as simply examining his game objectively will tell you this is not the case (is he REALLY better than Carson Palmer or even David Garrard?)Your agenda is on display for all to see, and quite frankly, I'm sick of it. who peed in your wheaties, imperium? honestly, it looked to me like dg was just asking a question. Technically, JC should be third behind the fact that A Rodge got hit and sacked more than him, but also put up better numbers behind a worse O-line in pass protection than the Skins. nooooo! dont do it! arrrrggggggghhhhhhh!!!!!!!!! ok- calm now. brett, its not conclusive or accurate to look at sack totals and conclude that a guy who got sacked more automatically had worse protection. there is more to it than just sack totals. btw, thats not to say that rodgers isnt great- i think he is. We had all new starters on our line in 2008. Faneca left, Marvel Smith's back problems kept coming up, and Sean Mahan was cut because he was the worst center in Steelers history. There was no push on running plays in 2008. We had more negative to 2-yard run plays than any team in the league that year. Our highest drafted player on our line is a 3rd rounder Max Starks (still is to this day), who was benched at RT the year before for a natural guard in Willie Colon. The rest consist of late round and UDFAs. We have no first day picks on our line at all. that works for me. alot of those reasons are similar to why i think the skins probably had the worst line in the NFL in 09. just a clusterF. btw- do you like colon as a tackle? i saw a site that had him ranked very highly. The counterargument for Ben that everyone seems to skip over is how many broken protections has he escaped from? Plays where any other QB would have been sacked if he was smaller or less mobile? Is it a coincidence that when the two best players on our line left (Faneca and Marvel Smith), Ben's average sack total doubled in every year? i thought ben is was tops in that category. but i'm trying to figure out bucks #'s. maybe he just has a higher percentage or completions or big plays after contact, but not a big actual #? i dont know. i had read (i think on NFL.com) that he's been sacked between 47 and 50 times since 06. that seemed like alot to me. does that sound right to you? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
redskins55 Posted February 23, 2010 Share Posted February 23, 2010 Campbell is already learning Shanhahan's playbook.We've got noone to step in and play QB if we let him go. Regardless if we draft a QB or not Campbell will stay. So the title of the thread should be "Campbell will stay loudly". Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
skinsfan913 Posted February 23, 2010 Share Posted February 23, 2010 It seems that our new staff is going to keep Campbell and let the kid play! The sooner you Mini Snyders wanting the next shiny toy at Qb realize this the sooner we can stop reading post after post about JC this JC that. Get over it guys, Campbell will be our starting QB and he will be fine provided we shore up the O-line which I think any semi-capable football mind would recognize as our MAJOR weakness!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hitman21ST Posted February 23, 2010 Share Posted February 23, 2010 Did I hear my name? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gibbsisgod2006 Posted February 23, 2010 Share Posted February 23, 2010 It seems that our new staff is going to keep Campbell and let the kid play! The sooner you Mini Snyders wanting the next shiny toy at Qb realize this the sooner we can stop reading post after post about JC this JC that. Get over it guys, Campbell will be our starting QB and he will be fine provided we shore up the O-line which I think any semi-capable football mind would recognize as our MAJOR weakness!! Hey buddy you’re not tired of watching the same Campbell movie ver again? Well a lot of us here are he is the same inconstant QB that he has been the last 5 years. Face the facts it’s time to move on from JC. So we give him a line and he is the same QB as he has been then where do we go from their draft a another QB 2 or 3 years down the road when you could have nipped it in the bud now? In order to be a contender you have to have that QB and I am sorry I like JC as a person but not as our QB. It’s not being a mini Snyder it’s recognizing what it’s going to take to win this league and as year in and year out the last two teams standing in the Super Bowl are teams with top flight QB’s. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AllBusiness Posted February 23, 2010 Share Posted February 23, 2010 Protect Campbell, and he will produce BIG BIG numbers. END OF THREAD! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mahons21 Posted February 23, 2010 Share Posted February 23, 2010 It seems that our new staff is going to keep Campbell and let the kid play! The sooner you Mini Snyders wanting the next shiny toy at Qb realize this the sooner we can stop reading post after post about JC this JC that. Get over it guys, Campbell will be our starting QB and he will be fine provided we shore up the O-line which I think any semi-capable football mind would recognize as our MAJOR weakness!! -Your acting as if the coaching staff believes he is the future here, which simply isn't the implication I have been getting. Yes, he most likely will be here as a stop-gap next season. But why is that such a good idea? Stop-gap QB's are usually journeymen who have experience in a particular offense and can teach youngsters some tricks of the trade. Campbell has already shown he has difficulty learning a new offense. What makes anyone think he could not only learn the new offense but help mentor a young QB in the new offense? Would he even do so willingly? The young QB is most likely going to take his job, and where does that leave Campbell? -For the love of God, can people stop acting as if its impossible to get both a QB and shore up the offensive line in the same off-season? It's as if some of you think if we draft a QB in the 1st there will be no changes to the o-line. You can address more than one position in the off-season, you are aware of that correct? It's not like we only have one draft pick throughout the whole draft. Also, don't forget Shanny has a descent record of drafting o-linemen in the mid-later rounds and plugging them into his zone blocking scheme. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gibbsisgod2006 Posted February 23, 2010 Share Posted February 23, 2010 Protect Campbell, and he will produce BIG BIG numbers. END OF THREAD! And you know this from what? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mahons21 Posted February 23, 2010 Share Posted February 23, 2010 Protect Campbell, and he will produce BIG BIG numbers. END OF THREAD! -His 8 game stretch (when Portis was on pace for 1800+ yards), but everyone felt Campbell was doing so great, Campbell was on pace for 16 TD's. BIG BIG numbers... hardly. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
grego Posted February 23, 2010 Share Posted February 23, 2010 Campbell has already shown he has difficulty learning a new offense. i'm nut sure about that. he's had 3 in the nfl (i believe this will be #4 in his 6th year) and had 4 in college and one could argue he's gotten better essentially every year. even year 2 of zorn was about as tumultuous as you can get for a QB. i dont know that the WCO is necessarily a good fit for him, but i cant say he's a slow learner. the guys had to learn more O's since high school than any other 5th yr QB in football. (i was exaggerating but i think thats actually true). he hasnt spent more than 2 years in an offense since high school. and for the record i couldnt care less who our QB is next year as long as shanny and bruce pick him. -For the love of God, can people stop acting as if its impossible to get both a QB and shore up the offensive line in the same off-season? It's as if some of you think if we draft a QB in the 1st there will be no changes to the o-line. You can address more than one position in the off-season, you are aware of that correct? It's not like we only have one draft pick throughout the whole draft. Also, don't forget Shanny has a descent record of drafting o-linemen in the mid-later rounds and plugging them into his zone blocking scheme. i agree that you can address multiple positions in the offseason, but the skins O line probably had one NFL caliber starter. they have quite a few holes right there. if it were for the RFA rules, i think it would be much easier in an uncapped year. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hunter_R Posted February 23, 2010 Share Posted February 23, 2010 And you know this from what? Campbell's massive 6-2 start to '08 where he was busting out 1 td a game. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wvtbred Posted February 23, 2010 Share Posted February 23, 2010 Campbell is already learning Shanhahan's playbook.We've got noone to step in and play QB if we let him go. Regardless if we draft a QB or not Campbell will stay. So the title of the thread should be "Campbell will stay loudly". and who told you this? He isn't even under contract so I am sure Shanny is opening up the book to him :doh: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gibbsisgod2006 Posted February 23, 2010 Share Posted February 23, 2010 campbell's massive 6-2 start to '08 where he was busting out 1 td a game. lol Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brandon Lloyd Christmas Posted February 23, 2010 Share Posted February 23, 2010 Campbell's massive 6-2 start to '08 where he was busting out 1 td a game. how dare you put a record next to a QB. everyone knows you cant judge a QB by wins and losses. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NoGravity Posted February 23, 2010 Share Posted February 23, 2010 Didn't the Lions go 0-16 2 years ago? Try being a rookie QB taken first overall in the draft and that's what you walk into...I'm thinking that trumps JC not being able to overcome his obstacles.Plus, JC's best year ever as a NFL QB is still mediocre in production at best. He also had 14 INT's, which is just under 1 a game. When you consider he ended 2 games throwing picks instead of scoring the game winning TD or FG, that makes me think he isn't ready to lead his team when they need him too. JC has never carried the team on his back when they needed him to, and that's why so many of us fans are let down by him. There comes a time when you have to step up as a starting QB and produce for your team, win a game for them...he just keeps faltering and falling short. Thanks for your insight into the Steelers. My boss is also a Steeler fan, has a terrible towel in his office and wore it at the christmas party fund raiser and he says the same things as you have said. Yeah I'm a diehard Steelers fan but I also root for the Skins since I have a few best friends who are Skins fan and I also live around Skins country. Oh and for those of you complaining about Carlos Rogers, we'll gladly take him over William Gay. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Skinsfan4life83 Posted February 23, 2010 Share Posted February 23, 2010 how dare you put a record next to a QB. everyone knows you cant judge a QB by wins and losses. Good try at sarcasm but it is true, you shouldnt judge a QB on w/l record alone. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brandon Lloyd Christmas Posted February 23, 2010 Share Posted February 23, 2010 Good try at sarcasm but it is true, you shouldnt judge a QB on w/l record alone. no one has ever said it was the end all be all of how to judge a QB. but its a very important stat. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NoGravity Posted February 23, 2010 Share Posted February 23, 2010 who peed in your wheaties, imperium?honestly, it looked to me like dg was just asking a question. nooooo! dont do it! arrrrggggggghhhhhhh!!!!!!!!! ok- calm now. brett, its not conclusive or accurate to look at sack totals and conclude that a guy who got sacked more automatically had worse protection. there is more to it than just sack totals. btw, thats not to say that rodgers isnt great- i think he is. that works for me. alot of those reasons are similar to why i think the skins probably had the worst line in the NFL in 09. just a clusterF. btw- do you like colon as a tackle? i saw a site that had him ranked very highly. i thought ben is was tops in that category. but i'm trying to figure out bucks #'s. maybe he just has a higher percentage or completions or big plays after contact, but not a big actual #? i dont know. i had read (i think on NFL.com) that he's been sacked between 47 and 50 times since 06. that seemed like alot to me. does that sound right to you? Colon is our best all-around offensive lineman, but he's a pretty average tackle (which is sad when you think about it). He's really a natural guard and would be a beast at that position. Hartwig is mediocre, Kemoeatu is poor in pass protection but great at run blocking (especially pulling), Essex sucks all around, and Max Starks is a a slow-footed buffoon. And yeah since '06 Ben has been sacked about 50 times/year. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brandon Lloyd Christmas Posted February 23, 2010 Share Posted February 23, 2010 Colon is our best all-around offensive lineman, but he's a pretty average tackle (which is sad when you think about it). He's really a natural guard and would be a beast at that position. Hartwig is mediocre, Kemoeatu is poor in pass protection but great at run blocking (especially pulling), Essex sucks all around, and Max Starks is a a slow-footed buffoon. And yeah since '06 Ben has been sacked about 50 times/year. no no, your line is actually good, its all just big ben making those guys look bad. jeez man, dont you even watch steelers games? ............lol Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Robert Griffin Experience Posted February 23, 2010 Share Posted February 23, 2010 Good try at sarcasm but it is true, you shouldnt judge a QB on w/l record alone. Because the Campbell supporters have been consistently hypocritical in the use of the record. They minimize the significance of his career 19-32 record, 11 games of which quarterbacking a team to 5-7 (and likely 5-8 if not for his kneecap getting busted) that a career backup went 4-1 with. However, their #1 stat to prove Campbell's worth is the fact that he went 6-2 to start 2008. Wins and losses matter when they make Campbell look good, and they don't matter when they make him look bad. If your supposed franchise QB needs a line that was a top 5 line in football and a RB on pace for 2000 yards to go along with a star TE and WR just to be on a 16 TD pace, you need to reevaluate what you have at the position. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KokoMike Posted February 23, 2010 Share Posted February 23, 2010 If Jason Campbell was sacked and nobody was watching, would it make a sound? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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