Does the Skins Ticket Office have a clear definition and policy for seat "upgrade"?

[capcrunch98]

Hi. I am completing my renewal form for my two Skins tickets in Row 2 in Section 413 behind the end zone. I like my seats but would love to move towards the sidelines, but not at the expense of moving 10 -15 rows back. If I check the box "Automatically upgrade my seats!", I am wondering if the ticket office would figure that moving me to Row 20 on the 10-yard line isn't really an upgrade (in my opinion, anyways).

Do any of the regular posters have any experience with this somewhat gray area?

Thanks.

[Mark The Homer]

It's my understanding that an "upgrade" consists of moving either towards the 50 yard line, or towards the field, or both. So no, they would not move you from row 2 to row 20.

You can confirm this by calling the ticket office, if you'd like. 301 276-6050.

[sens11]

I know in the past that you could have a notation added to your account that required the TO to contact you before any seat upgrades were performed. I would see if you could do that.

MTH, do you know if you can still do that even with the automatic seat upgrade program?

[Mark The Homer]

I know in the past that you could have a notation added to your account that required the TO to contact you before any seat upgrades were performed. I would see if you could do that.

MTH, do you know if you can still do that even with the automatic seat upgrade program?

I have no idea. I kind of doubt it though. Kind of defeats the idea of it being "automatic."

[SonnyandSam]

Knowing it is always dangerous to disagree with MTH on all things ticket/stadium related, I'm going to respectfully disagree with Mark. My understanding based on the literature we got is that for the upper level, the only automatic upgrade is down in your section;not towards the 50. Upgrades toward the 50 yard line only occurs in the lower level. And you have to give your approval for an increase in the ticket price before they will do an automatic upgrade for you.

Update -- I was correct...I just went to find my season ticket renewal package. AUTOMATIC upgrades in the upper level occur down in your section.

[Mark The Homer]

Well, both my invoices are still in their sealed envelopes, so let me open one up and take a look-see....

Wow. A lot here.

A Sprint cell phone ad.

A Bank of America / Redskins Checking / Debit card ad.

A Redskins Charitable Foundation ad.

A new HD video board announcement ad.

Here it is - Automatic Upgrade Program.

It says:

With new Auto Upgrade technology, the Redskins can now improve the seat location of account holders in good standing faster than ever. Each year account holders in the Upper Level will be moved down in their same section and price level to get closer to the action. Account holders in the Lower Level will be moved closer to mid-field.*

...

Look for more information in your 2010 renewal invoice package.

*Based on availability. Not all accounts can be moved each year.

<end>

On my OV seats invoice, there is nothing about an Upgrade program.

On my upper level seats invoice, on the back, it gives several upgrade options. I'm supposed to check a box:

- Do NOT move my seats for the 2010 season.

- Automatically upgrade my seats! I am willing to move to a higher price level.

- Automatically upgrade my seats, but please do not move me to a higher price level.

- I allow the Redskins to split up my blocks of seats to improve the location of some of my seats.

- Only move my seats in conjunction with the following account holders:

<end>

So yes, according to the language here, SonnyandSam is correct, an automatic upgrade in the upper level would not include moving out of a section.

The thing is, though, we know from past experience that a well-timed phone call to the ticket office can often lead to an upgrade out of your upper level section and into a better upper level section with no price increase. And this is true even if the invoice is not yet paid well past the due date. Whether this continues to occur in 2010, we don't yet know.

[celts32]

This is why i checked no. It's to unclear and calling does no good because you will get different answers depending on who you talk to. My feeling is that I would rather see it run once without me to see how it works and then maybe enroll in the program next year if it seems to work smoothly without any horror stories. Also I am in row 2 upstairs and I don't want Row 1 and I think the auto upgrade will imediately move me to row 1.

[ThePreciating]

Be careful with automatic upgrades.

Right now, I'm on the 15 yard line, but on the sunny side of the field. I could move into the 20 yard line, move 5 rows back, and be on the non-sunny side of the field. Technically, that's an upgrade, but it's one I have no interest in.

I wouldn't do it unless you're upper level.

[capcrunch98]

Thanks to all for your suggestions.

I called the TO this morning. The rep I spoke with was really nice, but admitted he wasn't quite sure how my situation would be handled. He said more than likely, I would be moved to the lower level. But in the event I was moved to the 400 sidelines, it would definitely be further back in the section. His advice was to include a letter with my renewal invoice stating my preferences.

For the money ($64/ticket before taxes) I think I have some of the best seats in the house (Row 2 in the upper deck), so I am inclined to just take a pass on the "upgrade" process because of all the uncertainty.

[celts32]

That's the problem in that ticket office...no one knows anything for sure! All you get are opinions when you call there! I have had that same phone call on various issues a 100 times! Unless you hate your current location I can't see how anyone would check yes on that auto upgrade form.

[Mark The Homer]

Yeah I have agree with y'all: Unless you friggin' hate your seats, the best way to proceed is check no upgrade, then read the threads on here and see how the ticket office handles things this off-season.

[celts32]

This new auto upgrade is like an attempt to put a silk hat on a pig. If this policy were for real the ticket office would have their stuff in order and be able to answer all these questions clearly. I expect it to be business as usual in the ticket office this spring with the upgrade policy turning into the same old free for all.

[Morpheus'skins]

Well I just spend some "quality" time on the phone with the Ticket Office in advance of renewing to better understand the new upgrade program. I spoke to a ticket office manager who confirmed that the auto-upgrade program will only improve your row within your section. The auto-upgrade will not move your section closer to the fifty in the upper bowl.

What was frustrating to me was that this person had a hard time grasping why an algorithm that doesn't look at moving you over sections also is very dissapointing or in essence "business as usual". I am in the lower half of section 420 (corner endzone) paying the same as someone in 427 (50 yard line), based on the new upgrade policy my only real improvement option will be to move to the lower bowl which is unlikely to happen for some time. Meanwhile, a newer season ticket holder starting off in 427 will have access to the premium upper bowl seats via the upgrade program.... Where is the fairness in that one??? Her argument was that if they people over section that would penalize those already in the better sections from getting any kind of upgrade (seriously??? you can't have an algorithm that looks at both).

What to do?

[celts32]

I was just told this in an email...

If you were to choose to upgrade but to not increase your price level you will not be able to be upgraded further than row 1 since there is a price level increase to go into the lower level. However, if you are willing to pay the price increase, you would be upgraded into the lower level from the upper level (depending on lower level availability). Accounts upgraded from the upper level to the lower level will most likely be located in the corners and endzones of the lower level. Once in the lower level, you will be upgraded closer to the 50 each year. If you check you are willing to be upgraded to a higher price, and if you are upgraded to the lower level, your seats will be automatically moved and you will be billed for the increase in price. You will not have the ability to decline the move if you have elected to participate in the auto upgrade program. Please let us know if you need any further clarification. Thanks!

[smer]

Her argument was that if they people over section that would penalize those already in the better sections from getting any kind of upgrade (seriously??? you can't have an algorithm that looks at both).

The obvious solution to this would be to first upgrade those with upper row sideline seats first, then to move those of us in the endzone to those vacated sideline seats. Then they can give our old endzone seats to new season ticket holders. Doesn't really seem too difficult. Besides, wouldn't her same logic also be true for the lower bowl?

[SonnyandSam]

Well I just spend some "quality" time on the phone with the Ticket Office in advance of renewing to better understand the new upgrade program. I spoke to a ticket office manager who confirmed that the auto-upgrade program will only improve your row within your section. The auto-upgrade will not move your section closer to the fifty in the upper bowl.

What was frustrating to me was that this person had a hard time grasping why an algorithm that doesn't look at moving you over sections also is very dissapointing or in essence "business as usual". I am in the lower half of section 420 (corner endzone) paying the same as someone in 427 (50 yard line)' date=' based on the new upgrade policy my only real improvement option will be to move to the lower bowl which is unlikely to happen for some time. Meanwhile, a newer season ticket holder starting off in 427 will have access to the premium upper bowl seats via the upgrade program.... Where is the fairness in that one??? Her argument was that if they people over section that would penalize those already in the better sections from getting any kind of upgrade (seriously??? you can't have an algorithm that looks at both).

What to do?[/quote']

As someone who does something similar for a living.....Yes, what you ask can be done. It depends on how many and how complex you want the decision rules to be. Too many rules for 60,000 plus seats and the permutations become endless. Remember, every time you move two seats; you move onto the next group of seats and start the process all over again.

I think the Skins are trying to keep it simple. In their opinion, the best seats in the house are on the 50 yard line lower level. In theory, everyone in the upper level would want to be on the lower level on the 50 yard line. So they upgrade people in their current section down as far as possible until the only next option is to move them somewhere in the lower level.

Suppose celts32, who is in row 2 in the endzone now qualifies for row 15 in the lower level in the end zone? Would that not be better than being in the corner of the upper deck in row 14 as they upgrade towards the 50 yard line? My answer would be yes but only celt32 can answer for himself.

I think it is clear in this thread that not everyone considers certain sections and seats an upgrade. How does the software know that celts 32 would not want a corner seat on his journey around the upperlevel to the 50 yard line? The guy next to celt32 may be more than willing to move a couple sections over and take that journey in hopes of being near mid-field in a few years.

Take my example. I sit on the goal line on the visitors side in row 5. Would I accept seats in a section to my left on the 20? or 30? I don't know...I've debated that question myself. But I do know that I want to move down to the lower level; and am willing to take a corner seat in hopes of moving to the sidelines eventually.

As for grasping the idea....it's a ticket agent with probably a high school degree...or an english major with a college degree....certainly not likely to be someone with a computer science degree or similar. The key is whether the TO management understands their new software and have properly conveyed the decision rules to the programmer. Besides, if I was implementing new software this year after last year's TO fiasco.....I would make the decision rules as simple as possible and take it for a test drive this season. Maybe add more complex rules next year if things went well.

Finally, I wonder how much leeway individual TO agents will be give regarding upgrades. If I was the manager....I would prevent upgrades by agents without manager override to let the automatic upgrade software work. Otherwise you only encourage every STH to continually call day after day in search for an easy mark to give you the upgrade you find acceptable.

I would also be curious to know what other NFL teams do with GA upgrades...

Should be an interesting couple of months.

[SonnyandSam]

The obvious solution to this would be to first upgrade those with upper row sideline seats first, then to move those of us in the endzone to those vacated sideline seats. Then they can give our old endzone seats to new season ticket holders. Doesn't really seem too difficult. Besides, wouldn't her same logic also be true for the lower bowl?

So how would sideline seat holders above row 15 ever get upgraded? If I am in row 16 on the 50 yard line, is it an upgrade to be moved to row 10 in the corner or even the endzone? Or be sent to row 10 on the ten yard line and pay more for my tickets than row 16 on the fifty?

It's not as easy as some want to make it because you have 4 price points in the upper deck ( I think it's four...Mark?)

[Mark The Homer]

Three.

The upper rows of the endzone is one price level - $44 plus tax.

The lower rows of the endzone and the upper rows of the sidelines is another price level - $64 plus tax.

The lower rows of the sidelines is the third price level. $79 plus tax.

Tax, of course, is ten percent.

[psu2008]

I like my seats in 131. Its in the back of the endzone (slightly to the right of the goalpost) away from the tunnel.

I literally walk in a straight line from tailgating in Green F-50, thru the bud light gate and straight to my seats.

I checked "no" to upgrade. Unless I move to the real sideline, I don't want to be in the corner of the endzone.

[Morpheus'skins]

I applaud the TO for taking the steps necessary to put in place a fair upgrade process. However, in my mind and likely the mind of other season ticket holders the new process does very little to improve. The prior process may not have been fair but it did allow for the consumer to provide an input beyond a simple binary yes/no. A provision needs to be made to funnel those not moving to the lower bowl toward the 50yd line. The injustice is exarcibated when the sideline section runs all the way to the endzone corners (as opposed to a lot of other venues in the NFL) resulting in a large disparity amongst those in the same price level.

The real problem is that the process has been broken for quite some time and there is not going to be an easy solution to fix the injustice from before. The outrage will get a lot worse the first time one of us hears that a new season ticket holder gets tickets one or 2 sections closer to the 50 yd line.

[Morpheus'skins]

Does anybody know where I can get an organization chart of the new Front Office. Although i did get mailing information for the person I was talking to, I feel that it would be beneficial for a few other members of the FO to be included in any future correspondance.

[celts32]

I decided to select "yes" to the auto relocation today based on my emails with the ticket office. I finally feel like I understand the process. I know not everyone likes the way they are doing the relocations but my biggest problem was not understanding how they were going to do it. It's nice to contact the Redskins and get clear answers. Hopefully the auto relocation will run smoothly.

[RedBeast]

There is a complex algorithm that was developed to actually calculate seat upgrades. This algorithm takes information from various data sources and ranks you from 1 to 100. Certain information as such rough salary level and your profession comes from your application. They also take data from your credit card purchases in the stadium showing your estimated actual spend on a game by game basis.

This, as well as other freely data available (house location, county tax information etc...) shows your estimated value. From here you are ranked within the Redskins Algorithm based on actual spend and estimated income/value. The higher ranked people come up for upgrades first. They are matched with seats that are perceived to have the highest value for the organization and so on down the line. Once they reach a certain level a second algorithm is cross referenced from the main database.

[Ned Flanders]

You guys are hilarious! That new and improved "Ticket Office Upgrade Software 2.0 Ultimate" **** isn't going to work. You know why? Because there's a bunch of clueless *******s working at the TO, and stuff is going to get screwed up again like last years fiasco. Wait until people still don't renew, and see the seats that new STH are going to be offered. I will eat crow if I'm wrong, but I don't see it happening. I for one am holding out on my 6, and we'll see what I can come up with. If nothing better, then I don't renew and buy 2nd hand.

[skinsince72]

So how would sideline seat holders above row 15 ever get upgraded? If I am in row 16 on the 50 yard line, is it an upgrade to be moved to row 10 in the corner or even the endzone? Or be sent to row 10 on the ten yard line and pay more for my tickets than row 16 on the fifty?

It's not as easy as some want to make it because you have 4 price points in the upper deck ( I think it's four...Mark?)

That's my fear. I'm on the 45 in the very last row. I certainly don't want to get row 14 of the endzone.

Edit:

I did find this on the FAQ portion of "manage my account" at Redskins.com

1. How does the Auto-Upgrade Program work?

All account holders who are in good standing by the renewal invoice due date are eligible for a seat upgrade. All

upgrades are based on availability. Because of historically high renewal rates, not all accounts can be moved

each year.

• If your seats are in the Lower Level, you are eligible to move one section closer to the 50 yard-line at or

near your present row.

• If you are in the Upper Level, you are eligible to be moved to a lower row in your same section.

• Terrace and Obstructed View seats (Sections 213-230, Rows 14-23) are not eligible for the Auto-Upgrade

Program.