Military Drafts: What would you do?

[AsburySkinsFan]

I already served so with that said I would probably volunteer without having to be drafted.

What I do find it interesting is all of the "it depends" answers. Your country didn't say "it depends" when it granted you the benifit of being an American, the least you can do is serve if called.

Yes, blind loyalty to state is always the best route.:doh: Something tells me that you don't even believe this, my guess is that if Obama led us into a war you'd very much object.

Like it was said earlies in the thread, if there was a draft to go to war, then your country would seriously need you because the **** has really hit the fan. Honestly, if you can't do that, please give up your citizenship.

Tell ya what...you find in the Constitution where citizenship is granted in exchange for military service, this isn't fricking Rome or Sparta, some of ya'll need to get a grip.

[Midnight Judges]

What I do find it interesting is all of the "it depends" answers. Your country didn't say "it depends" when it granted you the benifit of being an American, the least you can do is serve if called. Like it was said earlies in the thread, if there was a draft to go to war, then your country would seriously need you because the **** has really hit the fan. Honestly, if you can't do that, please give up your citizenship.

Vietnam didn't really fit that description. It was more like Iraq. Neither was a matter of national security. It was just kinda something our POTUS wanted.

Having said that, I agree that every man should go if drafted-for a lot of reasons.

[renaissance]

I'd enjoy being a woman. Good luck boys.

[hkHog]

Yes, blind loyalty to state is always the best route.:doh: Something tells me that you don't even believe this, my guess is that if Obama led us into a war you'd very much object.

Tell ya what...you find in the Constitution where citizenship is granted in exchange for military service, this isn't fricking Rome or Sparta, some of ya'll need to get a grip.

Wow dude, you have some serious issues.

[AsburySkinsFan]

Having said that, I agree that every man should go if drafted-for a lot of reasons.

Well as a father of a son I don't want to see him shipped off to some war zone to be used as IED fodder in order to secure some oil well, and if he's over 18 and the draft is being reinstated I'll drive him to the nearest Coast Guard recruiting station and sign him up for whatever version of ROTC or OCS they offer.

[Perky72]

I already served so with that said I would probably volunteer without having to be drafted.

What I do find it interesting is all of the "it depends" answers. Your country didn't say "it depends" when it granted you the benifit of being an American, the least you can do is serve if called. Like it was said earlies in the thread, if there was a draft to go to war, then your country would seriously need you because the **** has really hit the fan. Honestly, if you can't do that, please give up your citizenship.

What fans in the US or it's biggest allies would've been hit if we'd never gotten involved in Vietnam? What fans other than small French ones had been hit prior to involvement? That war was not crucial for national security. America didn't "seriously need" to prevent the South Vietnamese from being overrun.

I'm a bit old to be drafted now, but whether I'd go would depend on whether the war was actually necessary for my country or it's allies' security, or whether it was a geopolitical (or more nefarious) cause. And also whether I'd have the balls to actually flee. I might go to a lousy war just to stay out of jail. For a justified war like Afghanistan, I wouldn't hesitate to go if needed.

[AsburySkinsFan]

Wow dude, you have some serious issues.

LOL, you're right I do and Bush II gave them to me, it was then that I realized how blindly loyal to the state I had been, a mistake I'll not make again. The problem I have with what he said is that he nearly makes the argument that citizenship should be dependent upon a willingness to serve in the military which has NEVER been the American way, but instead was the way of Rome and Sparta. So if you think I have issues that's fine by me.

[hkHog]

There is no way to justify dodging a draft. Even if you disagree with the war your fellow citizens are going. I don't know how anyone could dodge a draft and ever look their peers in the eye as long as they live.

[AsburySkinsFan]

There is no way to justify dodging a draft. Even if you disagree with the war your fellow citizens are going. I don't know how anyone could dodge a draft and ever look their peers in the eye as long as they live.

So what about Conscientious objectors. And what about folks who join the Navy or Coast Guard to avoid being a grunt on the front lines?

[sacase]

Yes, blind loyalty to state is always the best route.:doh: Something tells me that you don't even believe this, my guess is that if Obama led us into a war you'd very much object.

Tell ya what...you find in the Constitution where citizenship is granted in exchange for military service, this isn't fricking Rome or Sparta, some of ya'll need to get a grip.

Your right, this isn't Rome where one ruler can send the country to war, we have a respresentative republic that requires for more people to make the decision than just the president, Congress would have to pass law allowing the draft as well as declaring war. There is a little thing in the constitution that allows congress to raise and support armies, hence you are required to serve when called even if you are a conscientious objector, you are still required to go to the draft board where they will put you in some kind of job where you do not have to fight and go to war. Failing to go to the draft board is against the law and failing to serve is against the law.

No I have no problem with Obama was president and there was a draft. I served when clinton was president I would serve under Obama.

[hkHog]

LOL, you're right I do and Bush II gave them to me, it was then that I realized how blindly loyal to the state I had been, a mistake I'll not make again. The problem I have with what he said is that he nearly makes the argument that citizenship should be dependent upon a willingness to serve in the military which has NEVER been the American way, but instead was the way of Rome and Sparta. So if you think I have issues that's fine by me.

If you don't want to be loyal to the country please just give up your citizenship.

[Fergasun]

This is an interesting discussion. I believe this is why the Congress ended up abolishing the draft; in fact I believe this is why we should have a draft. I don't agree that we should abuse our voluntary forces by sending them out at a whim (which is what I think is happening now). Simply put; as a democracy we the people have the responsibility to question military action. However, the way it is now we only care if we are going or know someone who is.... because all those other people "chose to enlist".

If drafted for World War I, I would've gone.

If drafted for World War II, I would've gone.

If drafted for Afghanistan, I would go.

If drafted for Korea, Vietnam, or Iraq; not so sure.

However, it is easier to take unpopular military action because we have a volunteer army; and the protest against is limited. Whereas if there was a draft army, whoever is calling for the war best be damn sure it is worth it.

[daveakl]

sign me for the vet min. plus incentives!!

[AsburySkinsFan]

If you don't want to be loyal to the country please just give up your citizenship.

:ols:HAHAHHA that's classic:ols:, show me where loyalty to state is a requirement for citizenship. Show me anywhere in the Constitution of the United States...anywhere.

Here let me help you.

http://www.usconstitution.net/consttop_citi.html

:hysterical::insane::rotflmao::thumbsup:

[AsburySkinsFan]

Your right, this isn't Rome where one ruler can send the country to war, we have a respresentative republic that requires for more people to make the decision than just the president, Congress would have to pass law allowing the draft as well as declaring war.

To quote a favorite line: "200 men can trample a man's rights as easily as 1."

There is a little thing in the constitution that allows congress to raise and support armies, hence you are required to serve when called even if you are a conscientious objector, you are still required to go to the draft board where they will put you in some kind of job where you do not have to fight and go to war. Failing to go to the draft board is against the law and failing to serve is against the law.

Wrong, there are currently two classifications for CO's in the US today, 1 for those who object to combat and others who object to any military service.

No I have no problem with Obama was president and there was a draft. I served when clinton was president I would serve under Obama.

So you would go to war under any President for any reason?

[AsburySkinsFan]

However, it is easier to take unpopular military action because we have a volunteer army; and the protest against is limited.

That and we've gotten really good at selling our troops and their families that no matter what they are really fighting for that they are "fighting for our freedoms."

Whereas if there was a draft army, whoever is calling for the war best be damn sure it is worth it.

Wow, imagine if they would actually do this all the time.

[hkHog]

:ols:HAHAHHA that's classic:ols:, show me where loyalty to state is a requirement for citizenship. Show me anywhere in the Constitution of the United States...anywhere.

Here let me help you.

http://www.usconstitution.net/consttop_citi.html

:hysterical::insane::rotflmao::thumbsup:

The Constitution does not directly mention the word "draft" or even the older "conscription," but its authorization for the Congress to "raise and support Armies" is a clear indication of the same concept - to use the resources of the nation to create or man an army....

Several questions concerning the draft arise each time the United States is threatened with military action, or the United States threatens military action. The first, and most basic, is: "Is the draft constitutional?" The plain answer to this, noted in the introductory paragraph, is that it is. Conscription is clearly anticipated by the Constitution. The Constitution did impose one small but key restriction on a conscripted army - any allocation of funds to support the army can only have a life of two years. Any allocation thereafter must be reauthorized by Congress. Since the House of Representatives is elected every two years, this is a safeguard against runaway armies. If the people are not satisfied with the way a draft is being run, they can elect a House that will not authorize further funding.

http://www.usconstitution.net/consttop_drft.html

Furthermore, on the page you linked to it says:

The following is the text of the Oath of Allegiance:

I hereby declare, on oath, that I absolutely and entirely renounce and abjure all allegiance and fidelity to any foreign prince, potentate, state, or sovereignty, of whom or which I have heretofore been a subject or citizen;

that I will support and defend the Constitution and the laws of the United States of America against all enemies, foreign and domestic;

that I will bear true faith and allegiance to the same;

that I will bear arms on behalf of the United States when required by the law;

that I will perform noncombatant service in the Armed Forces of the United States when required by the law;

that I will perform work of national importance under civilian direction when required by the law; and

that I take this obligation freely, without any mental reservation or purpose of evasion; so help me God.

Good thing you were born in the USA or you could never become a US Citizen (not that you value it or anything).

[Darth Tater]

Well, if I was drafted, that would mean I was either against the war or they put the draft in so quick, I couldn't volunteer. I'd like to say I'd have enough courage to dodge the draft.

[Braxford]

I would fight because I view it as part of a duty of a citizen to serve if called upon to protect the benefits of living in America and my family. Plus, if ever a draft is initiated America will be either in danger of having American soil actually invaded or the current military is just so depleted from the rotating deployments on the War on Terror which we are heading to. I would join up before though if the draft was imminent.

[AsburySkinsFan]

Good thing you were born in the USA or you could never become a US Citizen (not that you value it or anything).

I value my citizenship very much thank you not that you would know or care because I don't fit into your tiny mold of what a citizen should be, but I'm not willing to send someone to die for it, and I'm not willing to send someone to kill for it.

Your problem is that you confuse patriotism with citizenship and there is a HUGE difference there.

[ldysknzfn1]

I would think I would fight. Afterall, I joined w/o being drafted so why would I dodge? I might not like the idea of being in harm's way...but I don't like the idea of jail either..lol Besides, I'm too old to be drafted!

[Bang]

Hypothetically speaking, I would volunteer for a suicide mission behind enemy lines, parachute in by the cover of darkness, and singlehandedly kill the leaders of the opposition. Once this was accomplished, the people being forced to fight against us would throw down their arms and joyously hail me as a global hero, since by my bravery we would have averted what was sure to be a long drawn out bloody war.

I would then return home to the US, where I'd be given a big parade in every city and town, and all of your wives, sisters and moms would offer me sex.

Being a married man, I would of course decline.

At that point someone would decide I must be gay to turn down all that hot gratitude sex, and then I'd be derided as a perverted queer and thrown out of the military because some general's son would swear he saw me peeking at him in the shower.

The cost of defending myself would leave me broke and destitute, and I will die homeless in the street, set on fire by some snotnosed kid who's parents conceived him when his dad found out that he didn't have to gto to war because some guy killed the evil opposition leader.

And that is what I would do.

In all seriousness, I have already served, so I'd do it again. I signed up for selective service when it was time, and I'd do that again, too.

However...

For those who are hammering ASF for his tossing of a twist in this hypothetical situation... Take it one step further...

You're a German roughly my age,, or at least past your twenties, and Hitler has taken your country to war. You know what has happened, you've seen how badly he's screwedup, You've seen your Jewish neighbors hauled away, you've seen their property taken over. You've seen non-jewish neighbors hauled away for criticizing der Feurher, you've smelled the death coming from the "labor" camp nearby, you've known plenty of young men who have gone and died in Russia for this war that has been lost. Chances are your son has gone off and died for his country. Chances are also high that you know plenty of others who have done so as well. The Americans are pushing in from the west and the Russians are squeezing from the east.

And today Der Feurher has drafted you to defend the Fatherland. (along with several other old men and all male children of at least 10 years of age of your village, including your other son, who is 11.)

Do you just blindly go fight? Are you duty bound to this madman?

Or let's say you're a young man in his 20s. Hitler has been speaking and rising to power since you can remember. You're in the service, like you should be. You've taken part in the invasion of Poland. Your comrades have been killing civilians, and now you find yourself in a potato field, where all of your buddies are happily shooting women and children in the head and betting on how they will fall into the pit you guys made them dig first.

Do you shoot them? You superiors have ordered this. Their orders come from the state itself. What do you do? Do you have to kill them to remain loyal to your country?

~Bang

[sacase]

Wrong, there are currently two classifications for CO's in the US today, 1 for those who object to combat and others who object to any military service.

You might want to look at the law. As a CO you would not be forced into military service, but you could be forced into some type of national service.

[#98QBKiller]

Just go and fight. It's part of your duty as an American citizen and we all know that it's possible when we sign up for selective service at age 18.

I wouldn't think this would be a question.

[Perky72]

By the way, do these same rules of service apply to all countries, or just America?

Should an Iraqi during the invasion have taken up arms, or if a current soldier not abandoned his post? Should current insurgents continue to attack (only) US soldiers because of this theory of blind national duty?

How about young boys in Afghanistan in 2002, if the Taliban had told them they needed to join the army/insurgency out of national duty, should they have or should they have tried to flee to the hills or a neighboring country? Which would've been the more moral thing to do?

eta: oops, didn't see Bang's similar questions