texasthunder Posted January 9, 2010 Share Posted January 9, 2010 Here is a list of OL that MS has drafted while he was with the Broncos: 2008- 1st rnd- R. Clady-OT, 6' 6", 325 lbs, played 16 games played 2008- 4th rnd- K. Lichtensteiger-C, 6' 3". 295 lbs, 0 games 2007-3rd rnd-R. Harris-OT, 6'5" 300 lbs, 27 games 2006-5th rnd- C. Kuper-OG, 6'4",302 lbs, 32 games 2006-6th rnd-G. Eslinger-C, 6'3".292 lbs, 0 games 2005-6th rnd-C. Meyer-OG, 6'5",301 lbs, 56 games 2004-6th rnd-J. Sewell-C, 6'2", 300 lbs, 0 games 2003-1st rnd-G. Foster-OT, 6'5",338 lbs, 64 games 2003-5th rnd-B. Claxton-C, 6'2",301 lbs, 0 games 2001-4th rnd-B. Hamilton-OG, 6'4",290lbs, 104 games 2000-4th rnd-C. Carlisle-OG, 6'5",296 lbs, 141 games 1999-2nd rnd-L. Friedman-OG, 6'3",290 lbs, ? games (played for Redskins) While doing the research I did notice that Coach Mike seems to get very good results with later round picks. Not just the lineman, but alot of the players he drafted in later rounds saw the playing field. And it does appear that he prefers to draft lineman in the later rounds. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sawyer5500 Posted January 9, 2010 Share Posted January 9, 2010 It looks like his average draft position for offensive linemen is round 4. Although he isn't afraid to spend a 1st round pick on one too. He might be targeting Russell Okung as our franchise LT. Rams - Unlikely to use another high pick on an offensive lineman after taking Jason Smith at #2 overall last year. Lions - They could use a tackle but I read that they are happy with Jeff Backus at LT which might take them out of the running with a tackle this high in the draft (Although this could just be a typical pre-draft smokescreen) Buccaneers - They could draft Okung but they have 2 pretty decent OT's already in place with Penn and Trueblood. They have a boatload of needs elsewhere so I think they don't go OL here. Okung will probably fall right into our laps at #4. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HigSkin Posted January 9, 2010 Share Posted January 9, 2010 I posted something similar in another thread but incomplete. I think I was looking at SI for the data. Same type of conclusion by good research. http://www.extremeskins.com/showthread.php?p=7181536#post7181536 Here's an interesting tidbit. Shanny didn't seem to be a fan of drafting OL high in rounds. I would think he'll use both FA and draft to rebuild our line. Denver OL draftees: 2007-no OL drafted 2006-they drafted OL in the 5th and 6th 2005-they drafted OL in the 6th 2004-no OL drafted 2003-they drafted OL in the 1st 2002-no OL drafted 2001-they drafted one OL in the 4th 2000-they drafted one OL in the 4th 1999 they drafted one OL in the 2nd Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Master Blaster Posted January 9, 2010 Share Posted January 9, 2010 2006-5th rnd- C. Kuper-OG, 6'4",302 lbs, 32 games Played with him in college. He was set to be UFA this summer, but due to no CBA I believe he will be RFA. I wouldn't be surprised if we go after him to fill our RG spot. Having played with him and against Rinehart, I can tell you Kuper is head and shoulders above Rinehart. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Master Blaster Posted January 9, 2010 Share Posted January 9, 2010 Shanny didn't seem to be a fan of drafting OL high in rounds. I would think he'll use both FA and draft to rebuild our line. Denver OL draftees: 2007-no OL drafted 2006-they drafted OL in the 5th and 6th 2005-they drafted OL in the 6th 2004-no OL drafted 2003-they drafted OL in the 1st 2002-no OL drafted 2001-they drafted one OL in the 4th 2000-they drafted one OL in the 4th 1999 they drafted one OL in the 2nd I think this had a lot to do with scheme. Not too many teams look for the same OLineman as what the Broncos looked for. Thus, they could take people that fit their scheme in later rounds. Of course, when someone like Clady or whatever his name is came along, they took them in the 1st. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ADF Posted January 9, 2010 Share Posted January 9, 2010 The only OL you draft in the first round are tackles which is what they did twice in his last 5 years in Denver. The sweet spot for the other OL positions are the 2nd, 3rd, and 4th rounds. The problem with the Redskins is that we've rarely had those picks lately. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Uno Mas Posted January 9, 2010 Share Posted January 9, 2010 Interesting info, lets hope he has similar success here. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jflow78 Posted January 9, 2010 Share Posted January 9, 2010 The only OL you draft in the first round are tackles which is what they did twice in his last 5 years in Denver. The sweet spot for the other OL positions are the 2nd, 3rd, and 4th rounds. The problem with the Redskins is that we've rarely had those picks lately. Absolutely right, so you don't generally draft Gs and Cs in the 1st and 2nd, so the fact that they picked OL rarely in the top two rounds just says they didn't need an OT very often, which is the way it's supposed to be. And my problem with the theory that "Shanahan doesn't like to draft OL early" is that if you've already got a solid OL, you rarely NEED to draft OL early, you just keep the lineup stocked when you need to. Denver's had a dominant OL for a long time, so it's not like he was trying to build an OL from nothing and did it with guys in rounds 4-6. He did it in all kinds of ways, he brought in Schlereth as a FA, so we don't know exactly what his plan is. I'd be completely happy with an OT in the first, and an OG in the 4th or something along those lines. Hopefully we can get another OT and a C this offseason as well. Kuper would be a nice plug in at guard for a couple years, maybe Hamilton as well, then draft a OT, and then pick up another OL with another pick T, G, or C. We have to find a C, Rabach is a UFA, and could be signed for peanuts, but do we really want to? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Uno Mas Posted January 9, 2010 Share Posted January 9, 2010 The only OL you draft in the first round are tackles which is what they did twice in his last 5 years in Denver. The sweet spot for the other OL positions are the 2nd, 3rd, and 4th rounds. The problem with the Redskins is that we've rarely had those picks lately. This information is inaccurate. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NewRegime Posted January 9, 2010 Share Posted January 9, 2010 A quality OL does not need to be drafted at the top of the draft. Sure, it helps - but its not necessary. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ADF Posted January 9, 2010 Share Posted January 9, 2010 This information is inaccurate. OT are generally the only OL that go in the first round. There aren't many OG that do. Those that do are OT bust that are moved to OG or collegiate OG that are expected to play OT. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HigSkin Posted January 9, 2010 Share Posted January 9, 2010 I think this had a lot to do with scheme. Not too many teams look for the same OLineman as what the Broncos looked for. Thus, they could take people that fit their scheme in later rounds. Of course, when someone like Clady or whatever his name is came along, they took them in the 1st. Agreed, another factor on the smaller/quicker theory was altitude problems when playing in Denver. I think Boswell had a line about it and thought that was interesting. Of course, that won't be a factor here and the NFCE has a lot of bruising D-lines. We'll see how he assembles things. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jflow78 Posted January 9, 2010 Share Posted January 9, 2010 Agreed, another factor on the smaller/quicker theory was altitude problems when playing in Denver. I think Boswell had a line about it and thought that was interesting. Of course, that won't be a factor here and the NFCE has a lot of bruising D-lines. We'll see how he assembles things. Yeah, this is my thought too. Because we're moving to smaller more agile linement, we can probably get incredible value by using some of the latter picks on OGs and stuff. Not many teams look for guards under 300, but Denver used them effectively. I actually feel like that gives us a HUGE advantage in rebuilding the line because, while other teams will be looking for backups in round 4 and 5, we might be able to find some really solid starters who are smallish. Not sure what that means for the 1st round pick, but I'd still love to pick an OT first. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thinking Skins Posted January 9, 2010 Share Posted January 9, 2010 A quality OL does not need to be drafted at the top of the draft. Sure, it helps - but its not necessary. This can be said about any position, but teams tend to be willing to invest more in the first on a quality tackle than on a quality center because a quality tackle's more likely going to be protecting the QB's blind side, and the dropoff in talent from the elite tackles to the average ones is a lot more drastic than the dropoff in other positions on the line. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
[[ghost]] Posted January 9, 2010 Share Posted January 9, 2010 Played with him in college.He was set to be UFA this summer, but due to no CBA I believe he will be RFA. I wouldn't be surprised if we go after him to fill our RG spot. Having played with him and against Rinehart, I can tell you Kuper is head and shoulders above Rinehart. Wow, I've never met a poster who actually had insight to having played against or with people on our team or potential FAs. That's pretty cool. Hopefully Shanahan will find a Ryan Clady in this draft. Okung or Baluga could be mainstays on our OL for years under Shanahan. And if we acquire Iupati with ou 2nd, then great. A quality OL does not need to be drafted at the top of the draft. Sure, it helps - but its not necessary. Using that logic, we should just trade our high round picks for several several 4th-7th rounders. That way we can grab 15 late round gems and pay them minimum wage. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rufus T Firefly Posted January 9, 2010 Share Posted January 9, 2010 I posted something similar in another thread but incomplete. I think I was looking at SI for the data. Same type of conclusion by good research.http://www.extremeskins.com/showthread.php?p=7181536#post7181536 Here's an interesting tidbit. Shanny didn't seem to be a fan of drafting OL high in rounds. I would think he'll use both FA and draft to rebuild our line. Denver OL draftees: 2007-no OL drafted 2006-they drafted OL in the 5th and 6th 2005-they drafted OL in the 6th 2004-no OL drafted 2003-they drafted OL in the 1st 2002-no OL drafted 2001-they drafted one OL in the 4th 2000-they drafted one OL in the 4th 1999 they drafted one OL in the 2nd As I pointed out in that thread, you missed Ryan Harris (3rd) and Ben Claxton (5th) and didn't mention 08 (Clady-1st and Lichtenstein-4th). The reason Denver wasn't taking OLs early for that decade was because they already had Lepsis, Nalen and Neil in place, who would form the majority of that line for most of that period, including the two most important positions-LT and C. They also hit with Carlisle, Kuper and Hamilton, who both were good starters for several years, and Erik Pears (UDFA) who started for a while. And they were always bringing in FA reinforcements (Tony Jones, Ephram Salaim, Montrae Holland, Casey Weigman). No reason to draft OLs early if you already have quality starters and your later round picks are coming in and helping. Later in that decade, when the T position became a problem, they spent two 1sts and a 3rd on it. Don't know that this list really tells us much. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HigSkin Posted January 9, 2010 Share Posted January 9, 2010 As I pointed out in that thread, you missed Ryan Harris (3rd) and Ben Claxton (5th) and didn't mention 08 (Clady-1st and Lichtenstein-4th). Yes dear, I said in my post that the list was incomplete. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BigMike21 Posted January 9, 2010 Share Posted January 9, 2010 Contrary to what was posted earlier I do not think Okung will fall to us. So I don't think we will go OL with our first pick. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rufus T Firefly Posted January 9, 2010 Share Posted January 9, 2010 Yes dear, I said in my post that the list was incomplete. OK, sweetie. Just correcting the info. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HigSkin Posted January 9, 2010 Share Posted January 9, 2010 OK, sweetie. Just correcting the info. :hysterical: Don't be offended by my statement, it's coming from a female! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rufus T Firefly Posted January 9, 2010 Share Posted January 9, 2010 :hysterical: Don't be offended by my statement, it's coming from a female! Wasn't offended even if it was coming from a male. Flattered, maybe even a little curious...... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HigSkin Posted January 9, 2010 Share Posted January 9, 2010 Here's a guy I could see Shanahan and his staff looking at... Selvish Capers (West Virginia) Height: 6'5" Weight: 298 lbs. Projected Round: 3-4 Protecting Pat White in the versatile West Virginia offense has forced Capers to remain athletic and quick, creating a unique profile for the upcoming draft. Capers made the switch from Tight End to right tackle in ’07, but showed no signs of difficulty in the transition. Rather, he excelled and began to increase his build to adjust to the new position. It is Caper’s athleticism that sets him apart from the other linemen on this list. He lacks consistency in some of the mechanics that most others have mastered, but he has a desire to learn and the ability to progress that will overcome those downsides. Even though he has a tremendous cut block, he goes to it too quickly at times. He presents a solid anchor as a pass blocker but doesn’t always keep his body low enough and loses his balance. As a run blocker, Caper presents a tenacious pop and uses his quick feet to drive the defender far from the play. West Virginia’s spread offense doesn’t always call Capers to get set in a three point stance so transitioning to the next level may be difficult for the young man. He is quick off the line, but loses count of the snap sequence too much, resulting in unnecessary penalties. He runs with surprising fluidity for a lineman down the field, getting to the next level fast and causing damage to an unsuspecting secondary. No matter the position he is called on to play, Capers is a football player at heart and his tenacity on the line will not go unnoticed by scouts. Look for teams to depend on his versatility and athleticism to contribute at the professional level and give Capers a chance at success. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lou4gehrig Posted January 9, 2010 Share Posted January 9, 2010 It's not about draft position. It's about chemistry, scheme and development of players. The Broncos used the zone blocking with lighter, more agile offensive linemen. Guys like Tom Nalen (5x pro-bowler, 7th rounder), Matt Lepsis (undrafted), Brian Habib (10th rounder, journeyman), Tony Jones (undrafted, journeyman), Dan Neil (3rd rounder), Harry Swayne (7th rounder, journeyman), David Diaz-Infante (undrafted journeyman) all went to the Broncos and help build a great offensive. If Shanahan can get Alex Gibbs here to be the O-Line coach, we're set. We can find cast offs from other teams and undrafted / late round guys to build a good offensive line. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ADF Posted January 9, 2010 Share Posted January 9, 2010 Here's a guy I could see Shanahan and his staff looking at...Selvish Capers (West Virginia) Height: 6'5" Weight: 298 lbs. Projected Round: 3-4 Capers made the switch from Tight End to right tackle in ’07, but showed no signs of difficulty in the transition. Rather, he excelled and began to increase his build to adjust to the new position. As a former TE, he'd be a threat on tackle-eligible plays. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PCS Posted January 9, 2010 Share Posted January 9, 2010 Few other factors in this. One is obviously need. Two is placement in the draft which goes a long with three which is,(or was in this case),offensive linemen available at the time. One of the things I notice at quick glance is that Denver went several years where they didn't pick until # 20 or later. Now that's not taking in to account possible trades,but that could be a contributing factor in the team not taking an offensive linemen in the 1st round,(what they were looking at already gone). Now when having a pick in the top 20,they do seem to be a little over the place,but looking at the picks,one can see why. Can also see they're apparently unafraid to go Oline if the pick is there. Looks like they didn't have a pick this high in the draft when Mike was there so that could play in to things as well. :obvious: Redskins clearly have some needs in several areas. Mike also has to take a look at the rest of the division and what,(and who),the Redskins are looking at across the way and what they have to counter that right now,and what they may need to do so in the future. Biggest factor in this whole thing imho,is what Chris Samuels decides to do. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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