The argument for drafting QB at the #4 pick

[addicted]

Guess that's the best part of your post. If that's true for Colt, then it's also true for any QB in this draft... qhich means you don't know what you'll get

The problem with Colt Brennan is he is Zorn's guy. Coaches like to have there hand choose player to play for them. I think Shanny's feelings on CB5 are unknown at this time. The good thing for CB5 fans is no one's made him into a star yet. So if Shanny likes the kid and thinks he can win with him then he could say that it was his teachings that helped him out. If however he's not impressed with him I can easily see him replace CB5 for someone he does like more.

[Koolblue13]

yeah that "not a bust list" is horrible. matt lienert? alex smith? pennington? come on bro get real

Pennington is going to be on his 3rd team next year. All the greats do that.:hysterical:

[Rhymenocerous]

For all future posters in this thread, keep in mind that the OP would be content with us drafting a QB and having him turn out to be as good as Rex Grossman :hysterical:

[AKM311]

Byron Leftwhich? LOL!!!!

This thread doesn't completely suck, because you took time and effort into the post.

But your logic is flawed. Here is what I would like to know, out of your top 5 lists, what are the rushing and passing ranks of all teams.

Also, defensive rankings. A QB is very important, but you need a TEAM to win. Brad Johnson, Trent Dilfer, and lots more all won SBs. These guys are not franchise QBs. So building a team first and then finding a QB can have great success as well.

[addicted]

yeah that "not a bust list" is horrible. matt lienert? alex smith? pennington? come on bro get real

Serious?

Alex Smith came on strong this year.

Chad Pennington just last year took a 1-15 team to the playoffs and has taken another team to the playoffs as well.

Lienert has been sitting for years behind Warner, he's not been given a shot yet. The Cardinals are more then happy with the kid.

You guys crack me up with posts like this. What do you consider is not a bust? Your naming guys who went to the Superbowl as busts? What's up with that?

[Oldskool]

The one thing that I really want to hear from the take QB at #4 now scenario is, if we take a rookie at #4, how would they go about fixing the OL, if they would at all?

Take into account no CBA and very limited Free Agency in 2010 and 6 draft picks.

[Skinsinparadise]

Myth number four - None of the QB's coming out are worth that pick:

Lots of you out there say "None of those guys look NFL ready" and maybe your right and maybe your wrong. I think there are a few guys coming out that if they are handled properly can become solid to great NFL QB's. My point is no one knows how a QB's going to do in this league until he gets here and then you have to see how he is treated. I'll leave it up to the experts instead of listening to people around here tell you none of these guys are worth a damn.

Agree that Shanny and Scott Campbell, etc know miles and miles and miles more about evaluating QB's than we do and that's an understatement.

To me the answer is clear. Our best move in April is to take a QB with the #4 pick.

You say board members who say none of these QB's are the real goods, you ignore because they aren't experts. I agree with you. Then you go on to say the answer is "clear" to YOU.

How is the answer then clear to you? I would assume that you would fall in with us not being experts. Judging college QB's is one of the hardest things to do, Norv Turner who knows a lot about QB's and offenses screwed up with Shuler, Bobby Beathard who was considered for a time the best GM in the game fell for Ryan Leaf.

Why do you feel confident that you got a handle on rookie QB's and know what the Redskins need to do?

We must draft a QB in round one of the NFL draft.

So that means you are sold on Clausen or Bradford? Good thoughtful post. My only issue with it is that you seem rigidly locked in to draft a QB for the sake of drafting a QB in the first round. What if Shanny isn't? Does that mean he's wrong?

There are no guarantees with any picks but as you pointed out good scouts are more likely to make good decisions. Shanny is considered an offensive wiz who has drafted a stud QB, along with multiple good RB's and Wr's. If he isn't sold on Bradford and Clausen and goes in another direction in the first, drafts a QB later, or whatever he ends up doing -- am on board.

And while I respect everyone on the board, and its fun debating. There isn't one person here IMO is in Shanny's league in judging QB's so I'll defer to him here.

[addicted]

For all future posters in this thread, keep in mind that the OP would be content with us drafting a QB and having him turn out to be as good as Rex Grossman :hysterical:

you bet your ass I'd be happy with a QB who took his team to the Superbowl. That would mean the Redskins were in the Superbowl. Since when did that become a bad thing? Seriously what do you guys want from your QB's? :doh::doh::doh::doh:

[AKM311]

For all future posters in this thread, keep in mind that the OP would be content with us drafting a QB and having him turn out to be as good as Rex Grossman :hysterical:

LOL! Well put. The OP has a seriously flawed argument here.

More than half those QB's would be considered a bust with the #4 pick.

[addicted]

Pennington is going to be on his 3rd team next year. All the greats do that.:hysterical:

Excuse me? Are you saying if a QB plays on several teams he sucks? Do you really want me to destroy that argument and show your stupidity by pointing out the players who did that? Take the playoffs this year...Kurt Warners played on three teams, does he suck? What about Drew Brees? He's played on two teams, does he suck?

[AKM311]

you bet your ass I'd be happy with a QB who took his team to the Superbowl. That would mean the Redskins were in the Superbowl. Since when did that become a bad thing? Seriously what do you guys want from your QB's? :doh::doh::doh::doh:

Seriously, stop saying Rex took them to the SB.

He did not. Devin Hester and the D did. If Rex took them to the SB, he would still be there.

What I want from my QB that is being picked at #4 is a stud qb who can win a game on his shoulders. Phillip Rivers comes to mind. But there is no QB in this draft that I see worthy of the #4 pick.

Do not just pick a QB there, because your panties are wet for a QB.

[Rutliff381]

I certainly don't feel we HAVE to draft a QB at #4. What if Shanahan doesn't feel either Bradford or Clausen would be a good fit here? Should he HAVE to draft one of them anyways? Of course not. I'm not real big on drafting a qb from a "spread system"(bradford) #4 overall especially when there is an injury issue lingering. You make it seem like we are doomed if no qb is taken with that pick.

We should draft who we feel would fit in to what we are trying to do and can help the most...maybe this means OT

BTW...

Alex Smith...Bust

Byron Leftwich...Bust

Matt Leinart...Bust

Rex Grossman...Bust

[addicted]

The problem with 95% of the clowns in this thread is that you idiots don't read. If you did you'd see the point of this thread. Why bother to respond to something you flat out don't bother to read?

But your logic is flawed. Here is what I would like to know, out of your top 5 lists, what are the rushing and passing ranks of all teams.

Those 5 teams in rushing and passing are the top 5 teams in the league this year in total passing and total rushing of all the teams. I said that in the OP but like I said, 95% of you don't bother to read

[Rhymenocerous]

The bears went to the Superbowl because of Devin Hester and their Rock Solid defense. Rex Grossman never looked convincingly good, and he was under fire and controversy the entire season. Just tryin to refresh your memory on the season.

[AKM311]

Those 5 teams in rushing and passing are the top 5 teams in the league this year in total passing and total rushing of all the teams. I said that in the OP but like I said, 95% of you don't bother to read

Maybe I didn't phrase it correctly....

What are the rushing ranks for the top 5 passing teams? That is what I would like to know.

Just because people don't agree with you, does not mean we're idiots. You (just like me) are not a football guy. We are fans. So state your opinion and don't be pissed if someone doesn't agree. Grow up!

[addicted]

Seriously, stop saying Rex took them to the SB.

He did not. Devin Hester and the D did. If Rex took them to the SB, he would still be there.

So Mark Rypien didn't take the team to a Superbowl then? You need to stop saying and trying to prove the Rex Grossman is a first round bust. He isn't. A first round bust does not take his team to the Superbowl. Peroid, end of discussion.

What I want from my QB that is being picked at #4 is a stud qb who can win a game on his shoulders. Phillip Rivers comes to mind. But there is no QB in this draft that I see worthy of the #4 pick.

Are you an NFL scout with the credentials to say no one is worthy of taking as a QB? I don't think so. So frankly your not qualified to make that determination are you? All I've said is we should take a QB, not who we should take.

[modazfuk]

I think Shanny's feelings on CB5 are unknown at this time. The good thing for CB5 fans is no one's made him into a star yet. So if Shanny likes the kid and thinks he can win with him then he could say that it was his teachings that helped him out. If however he's not impressed with him I can easily see him replace CB5 for someone he does like more.

Yep and if the end result is the former, I'd be shocked if Mike still risks #4 and all of that guaranteed money on a QB.

[Koolblue13]

The problem with 95% of the clowns in this thread is that you idiots don't read.

Says the guy who started a thread, about something that is already being discussed in other threads on the board, just so his long winded post would be read.

Thanks for the insults respected board member, but your premise is flawed.

[Koolblue13]

So Mark Rypien didn't take the team to a Superbowl then? You need to stop saying and trying to prove the Rex Grossman is a first round bust. He isn't. A first round bust does not take his team to the Superbowl. Peroid, end of discussion.

Rypien lead the number one offense that year and broke the scoring record.

The Bears almost broke the defensive scoring record and I think broke the ST scoring record.

[addicted]

Maybe I didn't phrase it correctly....

What are the rushing ranks for the top 5 passing teams? That is what I would like to know.

Just because people don't agree with you, does not mean we're idiots. You (just like me) are not a football guy. We are fans. So state your opinion and don't be pissed if someone doesn't agree. Grow up!

I'm not pissed about anything. I knew posting this educated topic was controversial because some of the posters views on the matter. I had hoped that it would have been taken seriously and we could discuss this like men. Instead I see a bunch of juvenile people not even reading this post or trying to argue against it for kicks. The problem with the idea I presented is that it requires taking a different view then we have all grown to know...it doesn't provide any instant gratification to the fans.

We will never create another dynasty until we learn to take the long view approach. The fans in this thread can't seem to understand the importance of giving a young QB time to mature. You guys all want it RIGHT NOW. Well good QB's as I said are like a fine wine, you have to give them time to mature. That's not what this franchise does or even what the fans accept. And it's a mentality that must change. The status quo must be that this is a three year operation to getting back to being competitive. We can not simply say we can turn this around in 1 years time. Things do not work like that. But that point is lost on most of you

[demarc007]

Serious?

Alex Smith came on strong this year.

Chad Pennington just last year took a 1-15 team to the playoffs and has taken another team to the playoffs as well.

Lienert has been sitting for years behind Warner, he's not been given a shot yet. The Cardinals are more then happy with the kid.

You guys crack me up with posts like this. What do you consider is not a bust? Your naming guys who went to the Superbowl as busts? What's up with that?

Dude I don't mean to pile on but you should just stop it.

Rex Grossman is riding the bench in Houston and was riding the bench in Chicago after his trip to the SuperBowl you claim he was responsible for. Why was that? Grossman is a BUST. Period.

Leinart is a bust, great game he had vs. Green Bay last week huh. When Warner finally retires he will not be ready and he's had plenty of opportunity as much as Warner has been hurt.

Byron Leftwich, a bust of EPIC proportions. The Jags held on as long as they could and gave up.

Alex Smith is hanging by a thread but the 49ers will tell you he is definitely behind schedule, do you even remember where they drafted that guy. And Shaun freakin Hill has been starting the last two years. C'mon man.

Pennington is a game manager that's it. Not what you want in a franchise QB.

Russell is a BUST and his team hates him. The only reason why he is still around is senile Al Davis. He's the most horrible QB we've seen in the last 20 years. Seriously.

Your definition of bust is completely distorted. It's all about the investment of the team that drafted the QB and what that guy is doing within 2-3 yrs time. That's all you have these days. Somewhere they need to show a flash to be granted year 4 or 5 after that the book is closed if they don't deliver.

[Darth Tater]

In order of best to worse:

#1) Trade down to get more picks. Does lose because its not likely to be an available option unless someone who we really want is on the board.

#2) Draft an offensive lineman.

#3) Taking a QB in this draft at #4 and sit him for a year or two while he learns the NFL game. We would have to depend on luck. Would be OK if you think we have a good offensive line and a solid running game and/or an elite defense.

#4) Draft a QB and playing him right from the start. History tells us the even Peyton Manning would likely have been a bust had he not been surrounded by a quality offensive line when he was rookie and had a very good running game.

Successful QB's are like fine wine, they take a while to get good and they have to be properly developed in the proper environment. You plant your grapes in bad ground, you won't get good wine. You put a QB in a situation where he can't even be decent in his first starting year, you've got to move on.

Many people seem to believe the myth that it is possible to develop a franchise QB without a quality offensive line. FACT is all QBs in modern football had a good system including a solid offensive line in their rookie year.

Most people seem to want to ignore the offensive line yet as football shows the line is the one place you can't scrimp on unless you've got a DEVELOPED franchise QB. Drafting a QB is not a gamble unless you've got certain things in place because unless you have those HE WILL be a bust. We need to stop thinking that drafting a QB is a gamble unless you've already got things in place.

Aaron Rodgers - Not a bust but he had a system in place and sat behind the best for quite a few years.

Alex Smith - Not a bust but has not performed up to his draft status.

Ben Roethlisberger - Not a bust but had a quality system including an elite defense, a solid running game, an offensive line that included three of the top performers (2 were high round picks by the team) and very good receivers.

Byron Leftwich - Not a bust but took over a solid team. Once he no longer was surrounded by the right people, he faded quickly.

Carson Palmer - Not a bust but had a quality team surrounding him after sitting for a year.

Chad Pennington - Not a bust but never a true franchise guy.

Daunte Culpepper - Well, he did have Moss and was surrounded by a top team when he came in. Have you seen him without this?

Donovan McNabb - Not a bust but did come in when much of the NFC East was down. He also had an ability to escape sacks and running skills that made defenses play him vanilla. Finally, he had a great coaching staff that developed him right, a defense that was good and a quality offensive line.

Eli Manning - Not a bust but has never been great either. Came on a team that had an elite running game, a solid defense and a solid offensive line.

Jason Campbell - Not a bust? Most people at ES seem to think so.

Jay Cutler - Not a bust? Traded away from his original team. He's called a coach killer.

Joe Flacco - Not a bust. Have you seen the defense? Do you know about their running game?

Matt Leinart - Not a bust? His team went out and found a grizzled old vet who he's yet to replace.

Matt Ryan - Not a bust. Had a great running game, a good offensive line and a solid defense as a rookie. Was NOT asked to be anything more than a game manager as a rookie.

Michael Vick - Not a bust? Came on a pretty solid team plus had skills to get away with things.

Philip Rivers - Not a bust but, like most,he was surrounded by quality day one plus got to sit behind an all-pro.

Rex Grossman - Not a bust? Well, he's now a backup. Did well as long as he wasn't asked to do too much.

Vince Young - Not a bust but, again, he's surrounded by things like a good staff, a great running game and a solid defense.

These guy were not asked to do much their first couple of years or got the opportunity to sit and learn for several years behind a master. One big advantage some get is a big bonus which in the cap era means they get time before their cut. Others just didn't have to be the man until they'd had a few years under their belt.

[skinsfan23]

So Mark Rypien didn't take the team to a Superbowl then? You need to stop saying and trying to prove the Rex Grossman is a first round bust. He isn't. A first round bust does not take his team to the Superbowl. Peroid, end of discussion

u are saying people dont read? you are not reading the 15 posts on this thread saying it was the bears d that took them to the SB. how about you respond to that. and mark led #1 offense FYI.

[Passizle]

Your "not a bust" list is awesome.

Aaron Rodgers - Not a Bust

Alex Smith - Bust

Ben Roethlisberger - Not a Bust

Byron Leftwich - Bust

Carson Palmer - Not a Bust

Chad Pennington - Not a Bust

Daunte Culpepper - Not a Bust

Donovan McNabb - Not a Bust

Eli Manning - Not a Bust

Jason Campbell - Bust (iffy on this one IMO. I like him, but we gave up alot for him)

Jay Cutler - Not a Bust

Joe Flacco - Not a Bust

Matt Leinart - Bust

Matt Ryan - Not a Bust

Michael Vick - Bust

Philip Rivers - Not a Bust

Rex Grossman - Bust

Vince Young - Bust

8 of those guys are in fact, complete busts. Vick went to freaking prison for christs sake and cost his team millions of dollars.

Rex freaking Grossman? Rex Grossman? That Rex Grossman? Not a bust? Holy crap.

This could have easily been posted in another thread.

Here here!!! I think the OP labeled these as "not a bust" falsley infalte the success rate. All the guys highlighted IMO are a bust at this point...

[zCommander]

Do busts throw for 3600+ yards and 20 TD's in their 3rd year as the starting QB? With no offensive line or running game?

And I am home eating those yards while watching other teams in the playoffs this coming weekend and beyond. You let me know if you think a 4-12 record in his last year as a rookie something to brag about.