Rotoworld: Shanahan expected to retain Campbell

[Ernie5]

Do people get paid for this?

I mean, we can all read tea leaves.

[wvtbred]

King on PTI just said he didn't think the Redskins would invest anymore money in Jason

[Hooper]

Shanahan said the most important thing for a QB is accuracy.

In other words, JC isn't going to be his guy for long.

And don't give me his high completion percentage. I'm talking about passes thrown more than five yards that actually hit the receiver in stride.

[Joe Sick]

Of course we'll keep Campbell. He is going to be our career #2, or a journeyman like Ramsey. Anybody this deep into his career that doesn't know to throw the ball immediately after a 3-step drop and can't read defenses will be no better than that.

Like I said on twitter, JC could make corporate speeches on defining leadership, but eventually you have to quit all the PC talk and produce on the field. He looks like a QB getting off the bus and sounds like one in press conferences, but on the field, he is just not that good.

[ibarramedia]

I guess I'm insane, because I don't think the dude is very confident. How else do you explain his consistent hesitancy in getting rid of the ball?

Couldn't put it any better, though not sure about #4, because Shanahan Squared will have such a better clue about running an NFL offense that it will certainly help offensive production/stats. OTOH, the Redskins played such a ridiculously easy defensive schedule this year that the offensive stats are artificially inflated.

But, yeah, I'm already dreading the "another offensive system" and "incohesive OL" excuse trains, should Campbell be retained. Look, Campbell's retention is a huge red flag for me as far as to the QB evaluation skills of Shanahan Squared. I could stomach it if I felt it was for a truly open competition against a non-rookie (I firmly believe rookie QBs shouldn't play). But another year of watching Campbell make ridiculous, fundamental mistakes is not a pleasant prospect.

I was savoring the thought of the last pass Campbell threw as a Redskin being a desperation heave that landed 10 yards out of bounds. It was so appropriate.

Shanahan runs the West coast offense so there should be no worries about learning a different offensive system. If anything it is 'continuing education' for him. Building up on what he already learned form Jim Zorn.

Shanahan has that aggressiveness, passion and fire burning. As opposed to staying medium and being in a steady state. He also coaches the offense better and would call plays better. It is not like he will be learning Peyton Manning's offense.

[Ghost of]

Earlier stuff about the media and debating BLC's points

Look, as I've said more than once, you aren't going to (frequently) find a member of the media, ESPECIALLY the guys that work the games (they have to prepare by talking to players and coaches and thus they have lines they do not cross,) say "this guy cannot play in the league. He's a backup at best." They will always couch their criticism, use that great damning with faint praise line "You can win with him if everything around him is working." In fact, Lynch said something like that too, I believe. Not "with a good line and mediocre receivers" but "everything."

BTW, your decision to take Dungy's non-response over Harrison is strange. Harrison was actually with the team that dismantled a JC-led team 52-7. He probably had the chance to break down film on JC specifically for a game. What Dungy said was not a direct refutation of what Harrison said! It was merely, "well the organization...blah blah" That's not really a counter, it's just a way of taking the edge off some of the live criticism of the QB of a team.

Dungy is also the guy working with Vick---he may be more sympathetic to young men in troubled positions or taking harsh criticism, especially when you remember what happened to his son. But nothing Dungy said was really exculpatory of Campbell's role in the team. ANd BTW, Campbell played when the team was NOT dysfunctional in 2007. That was a Gibbs-led team trying to make a run in the aftermath of the death of a beloved and important teammate. His flaws then are pretty much the flaws he has now, from both an accuracy and mental standpoint. It's amazing that coaches open up things as soon as he's out (with the exception of Brunell in 2006 limiting Saunders, contrary to thesubmittedone's ridiculous assertion to the contrary.)

Basically, every major football mind and ex-player analyzing Campbell had mostly negative things to say about him--and said so on national TV. They didn't say "oh man, he's having a terrible game." They were looking at his fundamental deficiencies.

You can't gloss over this fact without looking far more agenda-driven and/or dishonest than almost anyone else on this board. The FACT is these media figures who played/coached football at high levels, including QBs AND GUYS CAMPBELL PLAYED AGAINST (Harrison) all went as far in their criticism of Campbell as you will see a broadcaster go in criticism of a player outside of the realm of 'character.'

It is Campbell's perceived character that saves him from truly being hurled under the wheels of Bus Reality.

[GSF]

Mine has been the last two seasons and I have a ton of Caps swag to prove it. Boycott stays in force as long as Jason is playing for us.

One of the gayest things I've read on here...

[GSF]

You guys so hell bent on dumping Campbell seem to miss the point here. NOONE is claiming Campbell is the next Joe Montana. The point is he's the best option for now. Fix the line, draft a QB either this year or next, and let it work out.

[Ghost of]

Thank You! If we tender JC a one year, $1M contract we might be able to get another 1st round pick for him.

One thing, in a delicious twist of fate, the implicit notion behind a lot of these "take O-line, if you take Qb first, the O-line will be awful!" posts is that Jason will not fetch a first round pick if we tender him. Could anyone here of the hyper-fanatic LT Holy Warriors or of the Campbellaters tell me that they would not be pleased if JC fetched a first round pick, thus obviating any concern about not taking a first round talent at LT and getting QB?

If you would not be pleased, why not?

[Ghost of]

And just to add on, tackles taken in rd 2 since the 96' draft

There were a couple names you didn't highlight, which only strengthens the argument that:

You can take a T in the second round. If we can somehow score another pick, say for Campbell we could take a T and G or two Ts in the second round. Why are you OFF line people so upset about? Getting two offensive linemen that you hope to be starters in the second round would be really setting our line up, along with a good gem spotted later in the draft and a solid depth guy (future starter?) who is undrafted. This isn't that hard, people.

[Ghost of]

Shanahan said the most important thing for a QB is accuracy.

In other words, JC isn't going to be his guy for long.

And don't give me his high completion percentage. I'm talking about passes thrown more than five yards that actually hit the receiver in stride.

Hey, what if Moss has stopped because he's waiting for a pass that is thrown 2.5 seconds late and he has to leap a la Charles Woodson vs. Michigan State in 1997 on the sidelines. Since he's stopped, that's technically in stride, right?

[GSF]

Basically, every major football mind and ex-player analyzing Campbell had mostly negative things to say about him--and said so on national TV. They didn't say "oh man, he's having a terrible game." They were looking at his fundamental deficiencies.

Not true at all. BMitch and A. Freeman both said very clearly after the final game " keep Campbell and fix the line." Deion and Aikman both said multiple times they thought Campbell could play but needed adequate protection. Colinsworth did not shred Campbell as BLC says. He pointed out that Campbell blew it by not realizing that corner blitz was coming. He also said several times throughout the game that Campbell barely had time t make a 3 step drop, and it had been that way for the last year.

Again, not claiming Campbell is a stud, but what you guys are claiming is simply false.

[Ghost of]

He pointed out that Campbell blew it by not realizing that corner blitz was coming. He also said several times throughout the game that Campbell barely had time t make a 3 step drop, and it had been that way for the last year.

I don't give a ____ what B Mitch thinks. I think he has organizational conflict issues and Campbell is the stand-in to re-enact the cosmic drama that is B Mitch Beef.

I'm talking about people with no or minimal connection to the team and its history.

BTW, did you watch the Collinsworth-called game? He did point out the times when Campbell got hit but he also (as many others did) pointed out how campbell is supposed to have the ball out after three steps and how that is basic stuff. Collinsworth ate Campbell alive, Lynch was less abrasive in tone but basically said much the same. I'm not sure what planet you're on to claim that COllinsworth didn't eat JC's lunch on that night.

Sorry, I won't let that slide. That night was very hard to watch because it's like Collinsworth just read off ES posts from us critics.

Again, almost no broadcaster will say, "This guy needs to be pulled, traded or cut. Get him out of there and move on." Maybe if the guy is old, they may say he's hit his period of decline. Or if the guy is low-character they may take shots but you never see them throw a decent person all the way into the fire. So you have to judge their words, as you would any public statements by how far it goes for their established boundaries.

[frankez99]

Again, almost no broadcaster will say, "This guy needs to be pulled, traded or cut. Get him out of there and move on." Maybe if the guy is old, they may say he's hit his period of decline. Or if the guy is low-character they may take shots but you never see them throw a decent person all the way into the fire. So you have to judge their words, as you would any public statements by how far it goes for their established boundaries.

Did you happen to see the second half of the week 17 broadcast of the Raiders/Ravens when Jamarcus Russell came in? Watch it; and then re-think your quote. It was an absolutely brutal assessment.

[Ghost of]

Did you happen to see the second half of the week 17 broadcast of the Raiders/Ravens when Jamarcus Russell came in? Watch it; and then re-think your quote. It was an absolutely brutal assessment.

Uh, JaMarcus has shown a remarkable tendency to rub people the wrong way in his work ethic. I'm not saying he's a BAD person but he is certainly immature in his approach.

He is also so world-historically bad as a player and QB they have nothing else to say but the truth.

With Jason, he's not historically awful and a bad actor like Russell, so they will treat him accordingly.

In a previous thread, I actually added that exception, that if someone is just AWFUL (basically Russell) then they will dissect them on-air at that point but bad players that aren't quite god-awful and a-holes will get some leniency.

[frankez99]

Uh, JaMarcus has shown a remarkable tendency to rub people the wrong way in his work ethic. I'm not saying he's a BAD person but he is certainly immature in his approach.

He is also so world-historically bad as a player and QB they have nothing else to say but the truth.

With Jason, he's not historically awful and a bad actor like Russell, so they will treat him accordingly.

In a previous thread, I actually added that exception, that if someone is just AWFUL (basically Russell) then they will dissect them on-air at that point but bad players that aren't quite god-awful and a-holes will get some leniency.

That's fair; and I apologize for not seeing your earlier mention of Jamarcus Russell. (It is historically known that any thread that has any mention of JC probably has 5% readable and intelligible content; the rest is just hater/lover circular logic and stats).

That being said, they stated that right now, Russell has no place on an NFL roster. Pretty honest stuff.....

[Brandon Lloyd Christmas]

Look, as I've said more than once, you aren't going to (frequently) find a member of the media, ESPECIALLY the guys that work the games (they have to prepare by talking to players and coaches and thus they have lines they do not cross,) say "this guy cannot play in the league. He's a backup at best." They will always couch their criticism, use that great damning with faint praise line "You can win with him if everything around him is working." In fact, Lynch said something like that too, I believe. Not "with a good line and mediocre receivers" but "everything."

BTW, your decision to take Dungy's non-response over Harrison is strange. Harrison was actually with the team that dismantled a JC-led team 52-7. He probably had the chance to break down film on JC specifically for a game. What Dungy said was not a direct refutation of what Harrison said! It was merely, "well the organization...blah blah" That's not really a counter, it's just a way of taking the edge off some of the live criticism of the QB of a team.

Dungy is also the guy working with Vick---he may be more sympathetic to young men in troubled positions or taking harsh criticism, especially when you remember what happened to his son. But nothing Dungy said was really exculpatory of Campbell's role in the team. ANd BTW, Campbell played when the team was NOT dysfunctional in 2007. That was a Gibbs-led team trying to make a run in the aftermath of the death of a beloved and important teammate. His flaws then are pretty much the flaws he has now, from both an accuracy and mental standpoint. It's amazing that coaches open up things as soon as he's out (with the exception of Brunell in 2006 limiting Saunders, contrary to thesubmittedone's ridiculous assertion to the contrary.)

Basically, every major football mind and ex-player analyzing Campbell had mostly negative things to say about him--and said so on national TV. They didn't say "oh man, he's having a terrible game." They were looking at his fundamental deficiencies.

You can't gloss over this fact without looking far more agenda-driven and/or dishonest than almost anyone else on this board. The FACT is these media figures who played/coached football at high levels, including QBs AND GUYS CAMPBELL PLAYED AGAINST (Harrison) all went as far in their criticism of Campbell as you will see a broadcaster go in criticism of a player outside of the realm of 'character.'

It is Campbell's perceived character that saves him from truly being hurled under the wheels of Bus Reality.

what he said! lol

damn good post dude, youre on fire today.

[Mahons21]

Not true at all. BMitch and A. Freeman both said very clearly after the final game " keep Campbell and fix the line." Deion and Aikman both said multiple times they thought Campbell could play but needed adequate protection. Colinsworth did not shred Campbell as BLC says. He pointed out that Campbell blew it by not realizing that corner blitz was coming. He also said several times throughout the game that Campbell barely had time t make a 3 step drop, and it had been that way for the last year.

-I recall Collinsworth saying Campbell had poor pocket presence and he showed on film why at least one of the sacks was 100% on Campbell, who once again refused to step into the pocket.

[darrelgreenie]

not true at all. Bmitch and a. Freeman both said very clearly after the final game " keep campbell and fix the line." deion and aikman both said multiple times they thought campbell could play but needed adequate protection. Colinsworth did not shred campbell as blc says. He pointed out that campbell blew it by not realizing that corner blitz was coming. He also said several times throughout the game that campbell barely had time t make a 3 step drop, and it had been that way for the last year.

Again, not claiming campbell is a stud, but what you guys are claiming is simply false.

+1

[Brandon Lloyd Christmas]

Again, almost no broadcaster will say, "This guy needs to be pulled, traded or cut. Get him out of there and move on." Maybe if the guy is old, they may say he's hit his period of decline. Or if the guy is low-character they may take shots but you never see them throw a decent person all the way into the fire. So you have to judge their words, as you would any public statements by how far it goes for their established boundaries.

again, how people cant grasp this is beyond me. no broadcaster is going to completely slam a player like some of us do on this board. in my life ive never heard a broadcaster slam a player hard no matter how bad the performance. ive even seen raiders games with russell playing where hes doing his signature 28% comp percentage deal and the commentators just kindly dissect the problems.

so when campbell takes a 3 step drop, waits 3 seconds and gets face planted, theyre gonna say "on that last pass, protection broke down, but hes gotta make that throw. its tough, but you gotta make that pass". the JC critic on ES says "holy god that was terrible, how do you not throw the ball? what an idiot".

same thing being said, one is from a neutral commentator that gives absolutely 0 cares about campbell and how he fares with this team, the other is a passionate fan who is sick of watching that pass every week and losing constantly.

[KokoMike]

Don't question Campbell's leadership. He was voted Captain.

[frankez99]

Don't question Campbell's leadership. He was voted Captain.

Hi-quality post.

[KokoMike]

Hi-quality post.

It came straight from Campbell himself.

[kevinklein]

No Shanny no! Offensive line- don't further neglect what Vinny neglected the entire time he was here.

[Mahons21]

Hi-quality post.

-Almost as HIGH-quality as yours.