Lavar has done lost his mind!!! Campbell .. Plummer

[Dallsux]

So you think its classy to fail to inform your employee's that your restaurant is closing?

Or is it the fact that he never paid them for work already completed that is classy?

Face it, Lavar has preached from the rooftops how he got cheated by Snyder. He's making a career out of hammering Snyder for cheating him out of money and then he turns around and straight cheats his restaurant staff out of money and a job without telling them. During the holidays, no less.

Yeah, real classy guy there. I guess ignorance is bliss.

I know I had heard about the restaurant closing but don't know the details. That said, there is not one business out there that, in the face of closing their doors, tells the employees until it's already been done or at the doorstep of doing so. I've been through it twice myself. Why do they do this? Because of loss prevention & employees making it personal & taking it out on the business itself. Also, people have a tendency to go looking for other work when they know their future in the job they are in is in jeopardy which often leaves businesses in a lurch even to close their doors. Believe it or not, there are reasons for everything that we, as the public, don't always know or even need to know.

Like I said, I don't know the details & alot of what you say sounds like angry employees making their case for themselves & hearsay. I don't blame them, but I still see no basis for the "classless" remark.

[Dallsux]

Jake Plummer was called Jake the "snake" because he actually knew how to elude a pass rusher. Campbell's elusiveness comes in his meetings with the press and most often involves how he really feels.

Jake Plummer didn't have this OLine to content with. Even Jake "the snake" would have had serious issues with this offense & his INTs would have been thru the roof.

There is only so much one person can do with what he is given. JC was never given an opportunity to succeed here.

[Newera]

Plummer led a lot of come from behind wins in his career. Something was lacking in.

[Newera]

J.C was lacking in.

[Bang]

Jake was able to turn things around during bad games. JC, not so much.

Lavar leapt

Jake caused many more bad games than he turned around.

Man, time sure clouds memories.

~Bang

[The Sisko]

Maybe he was referring to how effective the 2 can be when you roll them out and move the pocket, which in that case, and ONLY that case, he is correct.

Shanahan got him into an afc title game, and he did so largely by giving him Shannon Sharpe as an outlet. I remember Sharpe on drag routes and underneath routes all the time getting passes and turning them into gains. It was as if Shanahan made SS Plummer's guardian angel.. looked to me like he told Jake that when the slightest trouble happened, find Sharpe and throw it to him rather than try and make any other decisions on the fly.

Cooley and Davis could provide Jason with that same outlet. I'm not saying either are Hall of Famers like Sharpe WILL be, but they are both exceptional pass catchers, and Shanahan would use that to the utmost effect.

~Bang

The above posts were pretty much the first thing that came to my mind when all the Shanahan talk got serious. Whether many of you want to admit it or not, LaVar was/is correct on this point. However in order to understand it, one has to realize that the important thing isn't the relative merit of either JC or Plummer as a QB.

No, the important thing to take note of is that Shanahan was able to take a guy like Plummer who had some really serious flaws, and design a game plan that worked around those flaws and allowed Plummer to maximize his potential by doing what he did best. As a result, Plummer enjoyed more success under Shanahan than anywhere else.

Plummer's record in Denver?

2003 10-6

2004 10-6

2005 13-3

2006 7-4 (before Plummer was benched)

So, with Shanny calling the plays, I wouldn't mind keeping JC for another year. It would give us time to rebuild our OL and/or find an heir apparent at QB while probably pumping up Campbell's trade value from the current bag-o-chips to hopefully a 2nd round pick if we're lucky....maybe a bit better if we're really lucky.

I'm sure LaVar isn't a big Snyder fan. However, that doesn't preclude him from being right or wrong when he's criticizing Snyder, evaluating players, our team, or anything else. In short, I think some of you would do well to abandon your membership in the "Let's Die For Dan Snyder" club. It's clouding your judgement...just a teeny little bit.

[fansince62]

You mean the 8 million or whatever it was exactly that the NFL found wasn't actually awarded to him in his contract? Causing his dumb agents to get suspended?

The diehard LaVar fans crack me up. Just completely dillusional with how much of an egotistical diva "Mr. Nickels, from the School of Hard Knocks" really is.

as opposed to your emotional drivel? and, of course, your terrific accomplishments in life.......

[fansince62]

Jake Plummer didn't have this OLine to content with. Even Jake "the snake" would have had serious issues with this offense & his INTs would have been thru the roof.

There is only so much one person can do with what he is given. JC was never given an opportunity to succeed here.

riiiiight.......over 5 years just one, bad o-line.

speaking of selective memory and dishonesty when it comes to a player's short-comings........

[Voice_of_Reason]

Lavar and Dukes were trashing the 'Skins and Snyder today for firing Zorn.

Lavar compared Snyder to the guy in Star Trek who was trying to blow up worlds.

Between him and Dukes, they have about 1 brain cell.

EDIT: Also, on a slightly separate topic, Lavar also asked a hypothetical whether or no Tiger would be viewed differently if he had been cheating on his wife with men. I mean, WHAT? Where the hell did that come from? And why?

Their entire show will go down the toilet if the 'Skins win.

[ohioskins]

I can appreciate that you don't like Arrington or his show, but to call him classless is flat ignorant.

I agree. LaVar calls it as he sees it. They're his views, and yes they are bias. But he is entertaining, and I beleive he cares about the Redskins.

They were going over Broncos Qb's and he made a statment regarding Plummer not being better than Campbell.

Then Dukes did compare the stats of JC and CarsonPalmer. Which Jc haters wouldn't like. But Campbell's stats are just as good. Ofcourse what did you expect them to say an hour before having Campbell on the show.

It's entertainment. If you don't like it don't listen to it.

[ohioskins]

Lavar and Dukes were trashing the 'Skins and Snyder today for firing Zorn.

Lavar compared Snyder to the guy in Star Trek who was trying to blow up worlds.

Between him and Dukes, they have about 1 brain cell.

EDIT: Also, on a slightly separate topic, Lavar also asked a hypothetical whether or no Tiger would be viewed differently if he had been cheating on his wife with men. I mean, WHAT? Where the hell did that come from? And why?

Their entire show will go down the toilet if the 'Skins win.

Actually he compared Snyder to the RED MATTER that was put into the planet and turned it into a black hole. Meaning his meddleing in player decisions ruin good coaches. And I don't think they were attacking Snyder for firing Zorn. They thought he should be fired they just didn't like the way it was handled. Well ofcourse Lavar doesn"t like anything snyder does.

[DolphinsGuy23]

Instead of giving these meaningless stats, do you mind putting up Plummer's W-L record and how many 4th Qtr comebacks he has had in his career and how many times he has made the playoffs (stats that actually have to do with winning) and then we can compare the two.

I dont care if Plummer's passer rating is worse than JC. Does that mean he wins more games? NO!!

Is there an objective statistic out there somewhere about the "number of 4th quarter comebacks"?

You do know that NFL football is a TEAM sport don't you? Is it always the quarterback's fault when the team doesn't win? It's quite possible for the QB to be pretty decent and the rest of the team takes turns screwing things up. The DEFENSE has lost many games for the Redskins you know. Of course, everyone always just loves to blame the quarterback for every loss . Always have ... probably always will.

Jason Campbell's statistics aren't bad considering all the turmoil he had to deal with this year with the injuries, the terrible Oline, a mediocre receiver group, etc. It seems like Campbell hasn't really had ONE year where things go smoothly for the team. He's had to learn 3 different systems with different OCs you know. Campbell deserves some slack. The rest of the team sure didn't make life too cushy for him since he was drafted ... especially the Oline.

[Veretax]

So we should trade JC to TAmpe Bay for Josh Johnson and a late round pick?

[KCJDLJ]

His agent has been censured for that transaction and another. The contract was written, signed and not read by the agent or player. Not sure why you would believe a crooked agent and a stupidly duped player over ownership that has been more than fair with the players. Overpaying has not been an issue for Snyder and at the time he and Arrington were friends. Snyder has constantly overpaid and extended contracts with up front money to circumvent the salary cap. He can be accused of making stupid decisions and other things but cheating players out of money shouldn't be one of them.

[Bang]

His agent has been censured for that transaction and another. The contract was written, signed and not read by the agent or player. Not sure why you would believe a crooked agent and a stupidly duped player over ownership that has been more than fair with the players. Overpaying has not been an issue for Snyder and at the time he and Arrington were friends. Snyder has constantly overpaid and extended contracts with up front money to circumvent the salary cap. He can be accused of making stupid decisions and other things but cheating players out of money shouldn't be one of them.

Just one nitpick... Extending contracts is not circumventing the cap, it's standard operating procedure for the cap by every team in the league.

Contracts are never worth the money they're reported to be, in that the player never has a hope of playing the contract out to it's completion. The way the salary end of it is structured is to pay the player the minimum in the beginning, and then it gets progressively higher as the years go by.

Depending on how long the contract is for and how much it's "worth" depends on how much the salary jumps from year to year. Once the salary hits the big balloon year the player is expected to renegotiate.

Players love to do this because it converts back end "salary" money that they will never see into bonus money that they get paid upon signing the extension. (Chris Samuels did it for us several times.)

If the player is unwilling to renegotiate, they're gone. (Most of the time. An exorbitant bonus figure can make it difficult.. explanation coming)

The salary bonus is the most important number. It is paid in cash in the first year or two of the contract, and it's cap hit is spread evenly thru the life of the contract. This is the majority of real money that the player will actually see in the deal, which is why they're so keen on it.

So lets say we have Player A sign a 5 year 50 million dollar contract, with a signing bonus of 10 million.

The bonus is spread into a 2 million dollar cap hit for each year of the contract. (the money is paid up front by rule, but it can be split into two payments over the first two years, but no more. You'll note Haynesworth gets a 21 million dollar roster bonus this spring, that is part of his 40 million dollar signing bonus.)

The 50 million can be spread out any number of ways.. usually it is league minimum in the first year. (This number varies by how long the player has been in the league.) For our purposes, lets say it's 1 million bucks.

The second year the Salary is 4 million, in the third year it is 8 million, fourth year 18 million, fifth year 19 million. (These numbers count dollar for dollar against the cap in each of those years.) This is entirely an example, there is no set formula on how teams must split the salary portion of the contract out. They could pay league min. for four years, and then say year five is worth 46 million bucks if they want.

This player is expected to renegotiate in the third year minimum, and DEFINITELY must in year four. If he doesn't he's cut and unlike contracts you and I would sign, the management is not obligated to pay the remaining salary. The remaining Bonus cap figure is accelerated to that year's cap, in this guy's case that would be 6 mil. in dead cap space used up if he's cut in year three, 4 mil if he's gone in year four.

I THINK that the max number of years a contract can be for is 7, so that is why you saw Mark Brunell sign a supposedly high dollar seven year deal with us in his mid 30s. With a modest bonus, that makes the deal "cap friendly" even though there's no chance he plays all 7 years. He won't see the end of the contract where the majority of the "money" is supposed to be made. In the case of a guy like him, he's gone by year three, no renegotiation necessary. Effectively he signs it to collect the signing bonus up front (or over two years.), and the relatively small salary he is actually paid is what makes up his game checks.

There's lots of clever ways to manipulate the cap.. incentive bonuses, and such. One popular myth is that teams all have the same cap figure, and they don't. You cap is figured in the beginning of the year as if all bonuses that could be earned will be earned, and any incentives that are not met are added into the team's figure for next year. So for example, if we expected to pay out 10 mil in incentive bonuses this year, and only 6 is paid out, we get 4 mil added to our cap next year. The salary cap can vary from team to team, sometimes by a fairly wide margin.

This is why I think fans shouldn't worry over the money too much, because other than the bonus, we don't really know the particulars of a contract. Suffice to say it is never paid in real money what it is reportedly supposed to be worth.

This is how Snyder finds the room to make deals when he supposedly is going to be over the cap from year to year. February has been renegotiation month.

Sorry for the quick hijack!

~Bang

[Dallsux]

riiiiight.......over 5 years just one, bad o-line.

speaking of selective memory and dishonesty when it comes to a player's short-comings........

Ummm, it pretty much is the same OLine since 2004...you know, when Buges came back with Gibbs.