themurf Posted December 29, 2009 Share Posted December 29, 2009 (photo by Brian Murphy) Got some bad news for you - Jim Zorn is nothing more than a poor man’s Steve Spurrier. Yeah, we know. There’s no easy way to digest it. And honestly, we contemplated even bringing it up this close to the holidays and all, but we figured if you had to hear it, you’d want the news to come from us. This information is especially tough to swallow after reading former safety Matt Bowen admit that the Washington Redskins gave up on their lame duck coach at the end of the Spurrier era because they knew he was a goner. Couple that with quarterback Jason Campbell’s comments from last week, when he said he thought some of his teammates might have quit on the team and it really hits home just how bad things have gotten. For those fans who either aren’t familiar with Spurrier’s two season in Washington, let us break down just how memorable things were with the “Old Ball Coach” in our lives. For starters, he was the head coach of the Redskins for the 2002 and 2003 seasons. The Redskins went 12-20 during that time. The ‘Skins started the 2002 season 4-4 and remained middle of the pack all season long, finishing 7-9. Year 2 the burgundy and gold regressed, finishing a disappointing 5-11. In 32 games under “Darth Visor,” the Redskins scored 594 points, which comes out to 18.5 points per game. Sadly, the Redskins defense gave up 737 points over the same span, which equals 23 points per game. In unrelated news, by the time Zorn is no longer the head coach of the Redskins, he will have served a two-year sentence. With one game remaining, the Redskins are currently 12-19 under Zorn. So unless the ‘Skins can pull off a huge upset against the 12-3 San Diego Chargers (who happen to be coached by Norv Turner, a guy who might not be inclined to rest his starters against his former employer), Washington will just so happen to have the same 12-20 record as they did from 2002-03. As you know, the ‘Skins started off the Zorn era an impressive 6-2. But then the wheels came flying off and the team finished 8-8. Year 2 the maroon and black regressed, posting a 4-11 record. In 31 games under Zorn, the Redskins have scored 511 points, which comes out to 16.5 points per game. The Redskins defense has given up 609 points over the same span, which equals 19.6 points per game. So yeah, with one game remaining, the Redskins offense averages two less points per game under Zorn than they did with Spurrier drawing up plays for Patrick Ramsey and Danny Wuerffel. Put that in your pipe and smoke it. To recap, Spurrier’s “Fun ‘n’ Gun” offense lost by an average score of 23-18. Zorn’s West Coast offense loses 20-16. Totally different. Digging a little deeper, we see that quarterbacks under Spurrier completed 53.7 percent of their passes for 45 touchdowns and 36 interceptions. They threw for an average of 212 yards per game with a QB rating right around 73.0. Oh, and they were sacked 81 times in two years. Click here for the full article. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Redskins4ever Posted December 29, 2009 Share Posted December 29, 2009 Jim Zorn is not Steve Spurrier. In a lot of ways, they are similar. But in a lot of ways, they are different. As I recall Spurrier refused to play his best offensive weapon Stephen Davis and run the ball more. Had he done that, Spurrier might have won more games than he did. Also, there was zero to no talent from Spurrier's receivers. And Spurrier had absolutely no defense. Zorn was trying to coach a team who wasn't suited for his offensive scheme. You just can't wake up one day and say, 'Let's run a west coast offense'. You have to have the personnel in order to do it. The Redskins had D.J. Hackett in camp, and he was worth being a starter along side Santana Moss. Zorn might've succeeded had Cerratto provided him the right personnel to work with. But it wasn't meant to be. Both Zorn and Spurrier lost a lot of games during their tenures for entirely different reasons. Another difference between them is that Spurrier resigned. Zorn will most likely be terminated. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tr1 Posted December 29, 2009 Share Posted December 29, 2009 Inability to adjust during games...trademark Spurrier and Zorn. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Riggo#44 Posted December 29, 2009 Share Posted December 29, 2009 "Welp...5-11...not very good!" Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dadirtbags Posted December 29, 2009 Share Posted December 29, 2009 I think both were similar in the fact that they both had no clue on what it takes to get a team prepared behind a coaching strategy. I want to also say Steve...coming from college (had the luxury of recruiting the top WR's) I recall Steve saying that he was shocked how fast the DB's are in the NFL and how much ground they cover...which killed his fun and gun phylosophy...does Zorn have a phylosophy? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MattFancy Posted December 29, 2009 Share Posted December 29, 2009 The sad thing is that we didn't have as much talent under Spurrier. I'd say we have alot more talent now than we did in 2002-2003. CP is much better than Trung Candidate. Moss is better than Rod Gardner. Devin Thomas is better than Taylor Jacobs. Yet the offense is actually worse. Hopefully things will get better when we bring ing Shanahan or whoever else. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dadirtbags Posted December 29, 2009 Share Posted December 29, 2009 The sad thing is that we didn't have as much talent under Spurrier. I'd say we have alot more talent now than we did in 2002-2003. CP is much better than Trung Candidate. Moss is better than Rod Gardner. Devin Thomas is better than Taylor Jacobs. Yet the offense is actually worse. Hopefully things will get better when we bring ing Shanahan or whoever else. I agree...which is why I asked if Zorn has a game plan/clue? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
armada58 Posted December 29, 2009 Share Posted December 29, 2009 Good analysis. Sobering analysis. While the men themselves are vastly different human beings, the results were the same. Your 'Groundhog Day' analogy is a good one as well. Going forward, though, I feel like our groundhog day is over with the departure of Vinny. He's been the one constant (other than Danny) behind all this mess the last decade. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
themurf Posted December 29, 2009 Author Share Posted December 29, 2009 Inability to adjust during games...trademark Spurrier and Zorn. I didn't think of it, but you're absolutely right. We all got really spoiled when Gibbs was here the first time because he was so good at halftime adjustments. Spurrier and Zorn both give it the good ol' college try, but are overmatched. The sad thing is that we didn't have as much talent under Spurrier. I'd say we have alot more talent now than we did in 2002-2003. CP is much better than Trung Candidate. Moss is better than Rod Gardner. Devin Thomas is better than Taylor Jacobs. Yet the offense is actually worse. Hopefully things will get better when we bring ing Shanahan or whoever else. Yeah, this is what stands out to me most. Individually, there is a ton more talent on the roster now than there was back then. Shane Matthews, Danny Wuerffel, Trung Canidate, Derrius Thompson ... these guys were bums. And yet, for all the talent we've got now, we still end up with the same record and eerily similar stats. Good times. Good analysis. Sobering analysis. While the men themselves are vastly different human beings, the results were the same. Your 'Groundhog Day' analogy is a good one as well. Going forward, though, I feel like our groundhog day is over with the departure of Vinny. He's been the one constant (other than Danny) behind all this mess the last decade. Lord, I hope so. I hope that this Super Bowl winning coach comes in and is able to do what the last one couldn't - turn this franchise around. Here's the million dollar question though - what happens if they break the cycle? What happens if Mike Shanahan, who has all the leverage, opts to go elsewhere? Gruden isn't coming not. Neither is Cowher. You're basically left to find the next big thing, which is how we ended up with Zorn in the first place. That's my worst-case scenario - repeating the Spurrier/Zorn cycle without even getting the Super Bowl winning coach in between. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MattFancy Posted December 29, 2009 Share Posted December 29, 2009 Yeah, this is what stands out to me most. Individually, there is a ton more talent on the roster now than there was back then. Shane Matthews, Danny Wuerffel, Trung Canidate, Derrius Thompson ... these guys were bums. And yet, for all the talent we've got now, we still end up with the same record and eerily similar stats. Good times. And we all thought Spurrier was clueless and was a horrible coach. What does that say about Zorn? While I don't know if I agree completely with Vinny that this was a playoff roster, it certainly isn't a team made up of castoffs and ex-Florida Gators. This team has 7 former Pro Bowlers, 5 of them being on offense. Yet somehow our offense is worse than Spurrier's offense. Just shows how poorly coached we have been over the last 2 seasons. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Koolblue13 Posted December 29, 2009 Share Posted December 29, 2009 Zorn didn't even know our team colors, after he was hired. That stinks of incompetence. Zorn at least put the work in and had the team behind him for a while. Spurrier was just lazy. I think if he had Zorns work ethic, he would have succeeded. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
McD5 Posted December 29, 2009 Share Posted December 29, 2009 He also bears a striking resemblance to this guy: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pez Posted December 29, 2009 Share Posted December 29, 2009 Still waiting for Zorn to do the infamous lip flap... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bikie Posted December 29, 2009 Share Posted December 29, 2009 good article... the results are almost identical, but in defense of spurrier, at least he had playcalling experience and was sought after by other teams... he, to me, reflected the difference between college and the pros and how being good in one, does not guarantee success in the other... it seems like a lesson someone in the NFL learns at least once every 5-7 years... zorn, however, I just saw as the symbol of our woeful management, receiving his job due to front office blunders rather than his own acumen... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
visionary Posted December 29, 2009 Share Posted December 29, 2009 Inability to adjust during games...trademark Spurrier and Zorn. Yeah, that's the main reason I started worrying about Zorn's ability to coach sometime after the Pittsburgh game last year. And I think it could be said that his failure to adjust is not just in games as well but also throughout a season. (although the offense did adjust somewhat in the second half this year for a few games, but that seems to have been more thanks to Lewis than Zorn, lol) I think the other main knock on Spurrier was that his schemes left far too little designed protection for the QB...(which makes me wonder how Aaron Rodgers would have done with him, lol) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DCranon21 Posted December 29, 2009 Share Posted December 29, 2009 "Welp...5-11...not very good!" I was about to say that. :hysterical: But it's time to end it on Sunday Jim. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mooka Posted December 29, 2009 Share Posted December 29, 2009 The sad thing is that we didn't have as much talent under Spurrier. I'd say we have alot more talent now than we did in 2002-2003. CP is much better than Trung Candidate. Moss is better than Rod Gardner. Devin Thomas is better than Taylor Jacobs. Yet the offense is actually worse. Hopefully things will get better when we bring ing Shanahan or whoever else. Spurrier actually built that crap himself. He signed Shane Mathews and Danny Wuerffel. He drafted Taylor Jacobs and signed Jacquez Green. How many terrible Florida players could he possibly pick up? How do you replace Stephon Davis and Kenny Watson with Trung Candidate and Chad Morton? Bleh... what a disaster. :doh: "Welp...5-11...not very good!" :rotflmao: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ncr2h Posted December 29, 2009 Share Posted December 29, 2009 Wait, do people realize that like half the day 1 starters from this offense are out with injuries? Thomas, Samuels, Cooley, Portis...these aren't players you can lose and just shrug it off and keep on winning games. This 2009 skins team would wipe the floor with that 2003 team. And would probably beat the 02 team as well. The 2008 Redskins team would beat both easily. And our defense was better in 2002 than it was in either 2008 or 2009. Blache's schemes are incredibly overrated. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hail2skins Posted December 29, 2009 Share Posted December 29, 2009 Nice article Murf. With regard to the future, of course everyone was stoked about Gibbs coming back but given he was 62 and his balls to the wall approach he took to his job, it was tough to envision the guy lasting much more, if at all, than his five-year contract. Couple that with the change in offensive scheme to Saunders midway through and the result was a year that we could not afford to waste. Shanahan is 58 and, while everyone wishes for a dynasty, I hope he's able to at least achieve the level of success he had in Denver even after Elway left....of course, a better playoff record would be nice. I'd also like for him to stick around 8-10 years. Anyone know much about Mike's work habits? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hail2skins Posted December 29, 2009 Share Posted December 29, 2009 Thomas, Samuels, Cooley, Portis...these aren't players you can lose and just shrug it off and keep on winning games. We only had one of those guys out and lost to Detroit and struggled to beat the Rams and Bucs at home . Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jnhay Posted December 30, 2009 Share Posted December 30, 2009 Haven't the Redskins done better in the second half of games this year? Also, wasn't Spurrier known to be lazy and have crazy blocking schemes that would never work in the NFL? I haven't heard much about Zorn's work ethic, but I haven't heard anything bad either. I honestly don't think Zorn's incredibly awful like the team's output suggests. I just think he's obviously had growing pains with this team, which EVERYONE should have expected. It's like people are actually surprised at the results we're getting. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Redskin Rush Posted December 30, 2009 Share Posted December 30, 2009 "Welp...5-11...not very good!" I hope we win on sunday just so I can hear that clip ad nauseum! LOL Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Section123OnSundays Posted December 30, 2009 Share Posted December 30, 2009 yea except spurrier has a national championship... zorn is pure failure Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GhostofSparta Posted December 30, 2009 Share Posted December 30, 2009 The advantage Zorn had was a better team, although the Old Ball Coach did bring some of that on himself by trying to create the infamous "Gator-Skins." The Advantage Spurrier had was that he had been a head coach before, even if it was in college. Zorn went from life-long QB coach to HC in the span of about a week. That being said, I wasn't upset to see Spurrier leave, and the same will be true of Zorn in about a week. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BadKarma Posted December 30, 2009 Share Posted December 30, 2009 I can't help but throw out the inevitable Snyder bash for putting this team of players and the fanbase through the Zorn era after already going through this once with the SPurrier debacle. What made him think that he could evaluate talent enough at the NFL level to run and organization and hire someone to lead this franchise? Zorn was a QB coach in Seattle and had never been a play caller, responsible for putting down a game plan / strategy, devising a blocking scheme or making adjustments for the Hawks. He was simply a Seahawk legend who was given a job by Holmgren to tutor QB's. Lets just hope Snyder has finally learned his lesson now after 10 years of bleeding the Redskin fanbase dry and making a joke of us in front of the national media. He must be aware now that he is utterly useless at anything other than selling advertising and mass marketing the Redskins and that its time he steps off and lets someone else be the CEO. I want Shanahan in here so bad because he is probably one of the few coaches who isn't going to put up with any nonsense and can get this franchise back on track despite Dan Snyders ownership of the team. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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