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So a Muslim father warns the US government about his potential terrorist son


SkinsHokieFan

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...and the US government fails to take the neccessary action needed to prevent the failed attack on the Amsterdam to Detroit flight

So a few questions

1) Where are the moderate Muslims pointing out extremists amongst our own?

Oops

2) Why should any Muslim feel compelled to report actionable intel on another Muslim (in this case father WARNING the US embassy in Nigeria) when the US government does not take the warning seriously, and instead we hear a "where are the Muslims who oppose this?"

From the AP

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2009/12/27/AR2009122700220_2.html?hpid=topnews

Four weeks ago, Abdulmutallab's father told the U.S. Embassy in Abuja, Nigeria, that he was concerned about his son's growing hard-line Islamic religious beliefs and possible affiliations with fundamentalist groups, according to a U.S. government official who spoke on condition of anonymity because he was not authorized to discuss the investigation. This information was shared with U.S. intelligence officials, and Abdulmutallab's name was added to a vast government database of people with suspected or known terror associations.

Abdulmutallab came to the attention of intelligence officials months earlier, though, according to a U.S. government official involved in the investigation, who spoke on condition of anonymity because it is ongoing.

Still, none of the information the government had on Abdulmutallab rose to the level of putting him on the official terror watch list or no-fly list. Abdulmutallab received a valid U.S. visa in June 2008 that is good through 2010.

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1 ..answers itself,but I will take the time to commend those that abhor evil done in Allah's name....which is the majority of Muslims.

2... Because it is the right thing to do,and of course is in the long term interest of both their own lives and faith.

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1 ..answers itself,but I will take the time to commend those that abhor evil done in Allah's name....which is the majority of Muslims.

2... Because it is the right thing to do,and of course is in the long term interest of both their own lives and faith.

For number 2? What if the US government fails to act, as in this case?

I'd say the definition of actionable intel is the father walking into our station saying "hey, watch out for my son"

Whats the point?

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For number 2? What if the US government fails to act, as in this case?

I'd say the definition of actionable intel is the father walking into our station saying "hey, watch out for my son"

Whats the point?

Expose the govt failings just as you exposed the dangerous son.

Which he has done in both cases.:cool2:

The point is to FORCE change and expose wrong for it's own reward.

Or you can live with the results of inaction.

as the Islamic prophet Jesus once said

Therefore to him that knoweth to do good, and doeth it not, to him it is sin.

ok ,maybe it was James ,but I'm too lazy to look up another quote

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Our elected officials care more about control over Americans, then it does the bull**** war on terror.

We are over seas for profit and do not care about what is important.

Well, that is a popular theory among conspiracy theorists, libertarians, extremists, and ideologues. It's also extremely simplistic to pretend that U.S. foreign policy is driven by two goals (i.e., war profiteering and control of the U.S. public). The government isn't a monolith; it's a collection of various people and groups who are motivated by various ideologies, viewpoints, etc. U.S. foreign policy is formulated and executed by thousands upon thousands of elected officials and bureaucrats who, in turn, are pressured and cajoled by millions of constituents, including voters, lobbyists, social activists, think tanks, etc. But, alas, I realize it's much cooler and "Bruckheimerian" to pretend that government is filled with nothing but corrupt people who are acting in unison and incessantly plotting to line their pockets and gain control of the sheeple.

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Ah come on SHF, the man can hardly be considered a credible source of information. I mean his own son is a terrorist, how can you trust anything he says?

:silly:

Koolblue, I think this is a case of good old fashioned hubris coupled with the usual bureaucratic incompetence. This guy must have talked to a little guy who couldn't get the ear of his superiors because of the typical inner office horse**** that makes it so that the ones who are typically in charge are usually also the least qualified. Someone somewhere along the line decided the info was false.

~Bang

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So, let's hear what you would have had the US do? Spirit the guy away to a secret prison or maybe waterboard him until he admitted his intentions? Oh wait, sorry, we can't do that.

Imagine how cool it would be if you could just call the government on somebody you don't like and *poof* they can't travel by air. "You guys need to watch out for Jim, there."

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So, let's hear what you would have had the US do? Spirit the guy away to a secret prison or maybe waterboard him until he admitted his intentions? Oh wait, sorry, we can't do that.

Imagine how cool it would be if you could just call the government on somebody you don't like and *poof* they can't travel by air. "You guys need to watch out for Jim, there."

At the very least he should be tracked and subjected to secondary screening for air travel.

He managed to make a list of only about 5k worldwide and yet still managed to sneak a friggin bomb past TSA security....That don't cut it.

Tracking,extensive data mining and yes even interrogation (not waterboarding) is called for.

No way should he have been on that plane with anything.

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At the very least he should be tracked and subjected to secondary screening for air travel.

He managed to make a list of only about 5k worldwide and yet still managed to sneak a friggin bomb past TSA security....That don't cut it.

Tracking,extensive data mining and yes even interrogation (not waterboarding) is called for.

No way should he have been on that plane with anything.

its amazing how much terrorism doesn't happen

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For number 2? What if the US government fails to act, as in this case?

I'd say the definition of actionable intel is the father walking into our station saying "hey, watch out for my son"

Whats the point?

Because hopefully the government won't drop the ball next time, and your information might help save a bunch of innocent lives?

If I see someone robbing a bank, I still call 911 even though I had a bad experience with 911 once before.

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I thought I read that he WASN'T on the no-fly list? Or am I wrong about that?

He was not,it has been whittled down considerably

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/No_Fly_List

Homeland Security secretary Michael Chertoff, in October 2008 the No Fly list contained only 2,500 names, with an additional 16,000 "selectees", who "represent a less specific security threat and receive extra scrutiny, but are allowed to fly."

http://www.foxnews.com/politics/2009/12/27/bureaucratic-plumbing-scrutinized-wake-terror-suspects-watch-list-status/?utm_source=feedburner&utm_medium=feed&utm_campaign=Feed%253A+foxnews%252Fpolitics+%2528FOXNews.com+-+Politics%2529

Homeland Security Secretary Janet Napolitano said investigators did not have enough information to keep Mutallab from boarding the flight. She said the United States is reviewing security measures used in Amsterdam, where he boarded the flight, but commercial flying is safe.

"There are different types of databases," she said on ABC's "This Week." "There was never information to put this individual on a no-fly list."

"When he presented himself to fly he was on a TIDE list, which simply says his name had come up somewhere, somehow," but that was not enough information for security officials to take action, she said.:chair:

Napolitano also suggested that despite Mutallab's outreach to Yemen, she has no indication he is part of a larger terrorist plot. Speaking on CNN, Napolitano refused to say whether the suspect has a connection to Al Qaeda, citing the ongoing criminal investigation.

The Terrorist Identities Datamart Environment, or TIDE list, contains 550,000 names and is the intelligence community's central repository of information on known and suspected international terrorists. Contained within the TIDE list are 400,000 names of individuals on the Terrorist Screening Data Base (TSDB), the main identities database within the U.S. government for international terrorism. But fewer than 4,000 of the names on the TSDB list are on the "no fly" list and another 14,000 names are on the "selectee" list, which calls for mandatory secondary screening.

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I thought I read that he WASN'T on the no-fly list? Or am I wrong about that?

I watched Face The Nation yesterday and they were talking about this. He was on a list that has around 500,000 names of possible terrorist linked individuals. But the no-fly list has only around 18,000 names. The State official being interviewed said that he bomber had done nothing to be upgraded to the no-fly list. I couldn't believe what I was hearing after all the information the bomber father had provided. I guess someone has to actually try to blow-up an airplane to be upgraded.

The State official did say that Obama has asked that the no-fly data base be expanded to include more of the first 500,000 list. But it would have been too late for the people headed to Detroit.

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The no-fly list is a bad joke. Aside from the fact it includes many errors (14 of the 19 9/11 hijackers were on there five years after the event), it relies on the concept that terrorists will not use an alias when they decide to commit their attack.

So all it does is inconvenience people who are not a threat whose names may be similar to those of suspected terrorists, and worse than that it costs security dollars which are diverted from areas where they may have an effect.

But Osama Bin Laden is on the list. So if he checks into a domestic flight under his actual name we'll catch him.

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At the very least he should be tracked and subjected to secondary screening for air travel.

Well, that's a nice thought, but screening is not done by name. It's done by who shows up and, apparently, looks the least likely to be Arab.

The whole thing is amazing to me. The system needs to be retooled. And I mean simplified, not intensified. Lots of bomb sniffing dogs, good metal detectors, and basic human observers. You could institute this and that new measure, but everybody going through 2 hours of screening and flying with no luggage, naked except for a Tyvek body suit; is the only way you'll stop everything. And inexplicably, this guy is still using the old "one way ticket" routine. Good grief, why would they run into it waving a big red flag? Shouldn't they just spring for the couple hundred for a return?

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Koolblue, I think this is a case of good old fashioned hubris coupled with the usual bureaucratic incompetence. This guy must have talked to a little guy who couldn't get the ear of his superiors because of the typical inner office horse**** that makes it so that the ones who are typically in charge are usually also the least qualified. Someone somewhere along the line decided the info was false.

~Bang

I agree. I just get very frustrated by the entire thing. I don't honestly feel that we can continue to do the things we do in the ME and be safe.

There is no way to erase hate and violence with hate and violence.

9/11 was a horrible thing for us, but things like that have been happening to people around the world for a long time and it doesn't look like it's gonna stop any time soon.

We still can't have an educated conversation about oil, green energy, the environment and how to feed the poor and hungry around the world. We still continue to meddle in the affairs or other countries and have military bases in almost every country.

We only inspect 1% of the food (which is about 80% of what we eat) that comes into our country, how are we going to be safe ourselves and know who is here. Hell, our own PotUS got elected, while he had an aunt living here illegally and on government money. There is no way to keep us safe, while going down the path we are. It's just not possible.

/rant

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I agree. I just get very frustrated by the entire thing. I don't honestly feel that we can continue to do the things we do in the ME and be safe.

There is no way to erase hate and violence with hate and violence.

9/11 was a horrible thing for us, but things like that have been happening to people around the world for a long time and it doesn't look like it's gonna stop any time soon.

We still can't have an educated conversation about oil, green energy, the environment and how to feed the poor and hungry around the world. We still continue to meddle in the affairs or other countries and have military bases in almost every country.

We only inspect 1% of the food (which is about 80% of what we eat) that comes into our country, how are we going to be safe ourselves and know who is here. Hell, our own PotUS got elected, while he had an aunt living here illegally and on government money. There is no way to keep us safe, while going down the path we are. It's just not possible.

/rant

Hey! Hey! Don't you dare suggest that rules and regulations aren't particularly effective at stopping violent acts to the political contingent that's very closely aligned with the group that tells us we all need guns because rules and regulations aren't particularly effective at stopping violent acts! (And I say this as someone who generally agrees with the latter... well, both the former and the latter, actually, which is one of the many things that seems to land me in such a political No Man's Land.)

Our various intelligence agencies will do a better job protecting us from attacks than X-Ray scans of our shoes ever will. And Thank God for that, and for them.

Meanwhile, I'll just sit here wondering what brilliant plan the TSA will come up with next to stop the terrorists who are so abnormally clever that they've noticed we don't tend to check anybody's underwear before takeoff, which is a Mensa-level deduction that I've happened to see plenty of drunks figure out when trying to sneak cheap beer into FedEx. What's that you say? Now we won't allow international passengers to have anything in their laps an hour before landing? Ah, somebody important must have figured out that aircraft can only be blown up in that particular timeframe. Otherwise the terrorists would just plan to set their underwear on fire two hours before landing. But that's just crazy talk.

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