Mad Mike Posted December 21, 2009 Share Posted December 21, 2009 ...and the Redskins. But I'm zeroing in on Jason because I think this is the biggest question the team faces this off-season. While Jaws says "you can win with this guy", his comments are a mixed bag. http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2009/12/20/AR2009122002240.html?hpid=moreheadlines Pro Con As he combs through tape of the Redskins-Raiders, he's especially interested in Jason Campbell and the quarterback's continued development. When he first watched the tape, he was impressed with Campbell's performance out of shotgun and his success on first downs (93 of 145 with six touchdowns and a passer rating of 99.2).The Redskins will have to decide at season's end whether Campbell figures into their plans next season. The fifth-year quarterback is a restricted free agent, which means Washington can match any other team's offer. A year ago, Jaworski tabbed Campbell as an MVP candidate through the first eight games of the season. Despite a difficult final eight games last year and uneven play this season, Jaworski still likes what he sees, stating firmly: "I don't think you need to start over at quarterback. You can win with this guy. "He needs a stable environment, he needs a better supporting cast. But as I look at some other quarterbacks around this league, the Redskins should be thankful to a certain degree that they've got this guy," Jaworski said. "Is he there yet? No. But you can see the fundamentals are in place; the clay is starting to be formed." As Jaworski goes through the game film, two things stand out: the poor pass protection and the way Campbell consistently shakes off vicious hits. He still thinks Campbell has some mechanics problem and struggles to throw on the run. The quarterback is making better decisions than he has in the past but doesn't always make proper adjustments. Jaworski cites two instances in the Raiders' game when Campbell received a call in the huddle -- a reverse -- that clearly was the wrong play for the defensive formation. In both instances, the Raiders' cornerback blitzed and stuffed the play. "This is a mental error on Jason's part," Jaworski said. "You've got to get out of this play." Jaworski admittedly isn't sure how much Campbell is allowed to do. He recalls reviewing film before the team's first "Monday Night Football" game, and he was struck by the absence of audibles. In a pre-production meeting, he asked running back Clinton Portis about that. "He told me, 'I haven't heard an audible since I was in Denver,' " Jaworski said. "But we're seeing Jason run some audibles now. I still wonder how complex is this offense?" Jaworski noted the game's biggest audible early in the fourth quarter. Campbell approached the line, ready to run a stretch run play. But he spotted one safety deep and a cornerback playing wide receiver Santana Moss tight. Campbell raised his hand near his face mask and flashed a signal to Moss. The wide receiver ran a deep route and Campbell hit him for a 30-yard gain. The Redskins scored a touchdown three plays later. "This is the evolution of a quarterback. It takes time," Jaworski said. "He's far from where I think he's going to be. But he's not looking like the guy who was struggling midseason." I would really like to believe that Jason can be the QB we build the next iteration of the redskins around. If nothing else, it would save us a high draft pick that we would otherwise have to spend on a QB. But the thing that bothers me still, is this a a fifth year quarterback we are talking about. And he's still "far from" where Jaw thinks he can be? Five years and "the clay is starting to be formed."? I still haven't seen Jason come from behind when the pressure is on. I still don't see anything approaching the magic you expect from a really good QB. I still don't see "it". Now I'm not going to presume to know more than Jaws. If the man says we can win with him. I believe it. Or I should say I believe he *may* be right, because know one knows for sure. But I question if he is ever going to be better than a pretty good. I question if he is QB that you can win a superbowl with unless all of the stars align and the rest of the team is spectacular. If it has taken him five years to get to this point, how long will it take before he reaches his perceived potential? So what about next year? Does Campbell stay or does he go? I don't think there is a clear answer at this point. Too many things are up in the air. Too many things are out of our hands. All we can do for now is to ask the right questions. With Jason being a restricted free agent, I think it boils down to what sort of offers he gets. If no one bids too much and we can keep him for a reasonable price that reflects his value based on what he has shown, I wouldn't have a problem with that. But if his improved play prompts some other team to take a chance and put a big offer on the plate, I think we need to move on. We cant afford to lock yet another player into a fat multi-year deal. Not with so many questions still remaining about him. We cant afford to be forced into investing too much more time into him because of a contract. That's it. No answers. Just questions and possibilities. But if I had to bet, I'm guessing that one of the many teams looking for a QB is going to take a chance and park a Brinks truck on his front lawn. And if that's the case, I think our new GM is going to let him go and put his own stamp on the team with a free agent, a trade, or by drafting a QB. Time will tell. One thing for sure, it's going to be a long, agonizing period between our last game and the start of free agency. Hail. 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Madison Redskin Posted December 21, 2009 Share Posted December 21, 2009 I was about to post this article. It's very interesting, to say the least. It's nice to know that, given his track record, Allen is going to address the O-line this offseason. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Timmy Smith Posted December 21, 2009 Share Posted December 21, 2009 Amazing to think that Campbell is even as good as he is, given that he only just recently received the right to call audibles. Imagine if he had full authority to call audibles whenever he wanted. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bubba9497 Posted December 21, 2009 Share Posted December 21, 2009 But the thing that bothers me still, is this a a fifth year quarterback we are talking about. And he's still "far from" where Jaw thinks he can be? Five years and "the clay is starting to be formed." you completely missed his points, of better protection and a stable consistent environment, to reach his true potential. 5 years.... didn't play his first year and a half. has had 2 HC , 3 different systems, 3 or 4 different OC, play callers and QB coaches. Manning, (both), Brady, McNabb, Rivers, Favre, all had little to no change their first 5 years while learning,..... and beyond. Saying "5 years" doesn't mean squat without context. You have to look at the situations in those 5 years, every time he and the team start getting comfortable there has been a change. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SkinsFTW Posted December 21, 2009 Share Posted December 21, 2009 I think JC will be way too much of a headache for a guy like Shanahan. I mean, you see him in SF ****ing at Steve Young for missing on a couple TD's in a game he threw 6TD passes. He might just keep him for a year and draft a new QB though. He is at least very durable and could probably be even slightly better next year with Shanahan calling plays that work for a QB like JC. Either way, if a team offers a 1st rounder for JC you have to take it. I could imagine him here in year 8 just starting to turn into an almost Pro Bowler in Shanahan's offense with us still losing close games late because he has no clutch in him at all. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
isaacis881 Posted December 21, 2009 Share Posted December 21, 2009 Campbell is as good as now as he will ever will be. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheItalianStallion Posted December 21, 2009 Share Posted December 21, 2009 He still thinks Campbell has some mechanics problem and struggles to throw on the runInteresting read but I disagree with this statement on both counts: he throws on the run fine IMO and while his mechanics were HORRIBLE when he first came into the league, they're fine now. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Buck812 Posted December 21, 2009 Share Posted December 21, 2009 I think the article is as much of a reflection on the job Zorn had done as it is with Jason. This team had been playing pretty darn good as of late with very little talent. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RenegadeTK Posted December 21, 2009 Share Posted December 21, 2009 interesting post. i think we need to be reactive when it comes to JC this offseason. if another teams puts in a high bid, then we have to let him go. if our talent evaluators honestly believe that our next QB is in the draft and we have a chance to get him, then we should get him. i dont think JC has put us in the position to say "we are bringing this guy back." i think priority this offseason needs to be fixing our o-line and implementing a new offense. if JC stays, he isn't gonna personally lose us any games. if we draft a QB, he better have the potential to win us some games. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
justice98 Posted December 21, 2009 Share Posted December 21, 2009 Campbell is as good as now as he will ever will be. His track record is that he's gotten better every year. QB rating, TDs, Yards, Completion Percentage have all gone up each year of his career. Not down, not sideways, but up. There's no reason to think that with a better structure and more talent around him, that he won't get even better. He's on the doorstep of a QB rating in the 90s (currently at 89), which is the neighborhood of where your top QBs hang out. If there's a better option available, I'd like to see it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NewCliche21 Posted December 21, 2009 Share Posted December 21, 2009 Campbell is as good as now as he will ever will be. Just like your input. Campbell has improved every single year, contrary to what your worthless, drive-by post states. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chump Bailey Posted December 21, 2009 Share Posted December 21, 2009 JC's play certainly has frustrated me at times, but as of right now, I hope Allen decides on keeping him, which will be difficult IMO. I definitely think he will generate interest and his performance the past few weeks only served to reinforce that IMO. JC also just may walk regardless. The wise choice as I see it is to smooth any ruffled feathers with JC and re-sign him. Focus on OT and try to keep Levi Jones, which won't be easy either IMO. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stonoman Posted December 21, 2009 Share Posted December 21, 2009 The next three games are on JC.If he looks good he may just stay.I say keep him and see what Shanny can do with him. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rdskns n 05 Posted December 21, 2009 Share Posted December 21, 2009 you completely missed his points, of better protection and a stable consistent environment, to reach his true potential.5 years.... didn't play his first year and a half. has had 2 HC , 3 different systems, 3 or 4 different OC, play callers and QB coaches. Manning, (both), Brady, McNabb, Rivers, Favre, all had little to no change their first 5 years while learning,..... and beyond. Saying "5 years" doesn't mean squat without context. You have to look at the situations in those 5 years, every time he and the team start getting comfortable there has been a change. Bubba makes a great point here, What if JC is just getting comfortable in the system now? I would like to see him here at least another year with Zorn. What if tthese guys are starting to pull it together after the last 2 years? I do not want to start all over again and watch more losing. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
brandymac27 Posted December 21, 2009 Share Posted December 21, 2009 I don't want to use a draft pick on a QB, and I think JC is better than most options in the draft/FA anyway. I think we should keep him at least another year and see where things go w/ him after we address the O line. He has been playing MUCH better. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GibbsFactor Posted December 21, 2009 Share Posted December 21, 2009 Well there's two stories to this. Yes, he should be farther along then he is now. But... with the coaching and system changes coupled with the turmoil he's gone through I think we have to stick with him. The downside is that if Zorn is gone, who will continue to develop him? And will the new regime keep most of the existing system in place not changing too much about our current WCO? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TD_washingtonredskins Posted December 21, 2009 Share Posted December 21, 2009 Campbell is as good as now as he will ever will be. I'm not sold on Campbell being the long-term answer for the Redskins yet, but the above post is just ignorant. He's improved each and every year since he's been the starter. My biggest complaint is the fact that he still doesn't seem to be clutch. I'll need to see him march us down the field for a game-winning drive or two before I'll have any faith that he can do that for us regularly. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Elessar78 Posted December 21, 2009 Share Posted December 21, 2009 It's not just the system that he has to learn under a new coach. It's terminology. It's like learning a new language—it takes time to become fluent in it and 10 other guys have to become fluent too. I think Campbell is good enough. We won with guys like Rypien, but we just need to give them good protection first and foremost. We have a solid defense, good up and coming skill position players. We could use a new RB but that's about it. Build the O-line and give him some stability in the offensive scheme and let's see what Jason can do. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KDawg Posted December 21, 2009 Share Posted December 21, 2009 I'll state my argument here as I have in many threads... It's a pro-Campbell argument... If you think we should replace Campbell... Who do we replace him with? No one seems to be able to answer this question. I completely agree with Jaws. Campbell has his shortcomings, and if we had an opportunity to upgrade, it wouldn't be a terrible idea. But I don't see that ability to upgrade and keeping Campbell another year may show that he's even better than we thought he was... or it could show he's not what we need at the QB position. Either way, I think next year is another year for Jason Campbell. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
McD5 Posted December 21, 2009 Share Posted December 21, 2009 It's disappointing that JC has been a slow learner. Regardless if the environment and system changes had something to do with it, it is depressing to think that it would take any first round QB 5 years in time to get where he is today. I don't find that acceptable. Imagine if every qb took five years to partially develop. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wdcredskins Posted December 21, 2009 Share Posted December 21, 2009 Too mahy IFs and buts from Jaws that has probablyt seen a few full games of campbell since campbell has become a starter. for a guy that has had 50 games in the NFL. the fact of the matter is, no matter how well he has played against the saints and the raiders, JC is JC, a mediocre QB in the league that could be a good backup. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
McD5 Posted December 21, 2009 Share Posted December 21, 2009 I'll state my argument here as I have in many threads... It's a pro-Campbell argument...If you think we should replace Campbell... Who do we replace him with? No one seems to be able to answer this question. I would look to draft one, and have a total, open competition between JC and Colt Brennan after the season is over. Let the winner play, while the new QB gets groomed. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Canadian Hog Posted December 21, 2009 Share Posted December 21, 2009 Kerry Collins Neil O'Donnell Trent Dilfer Stan Humphries Drew Bledsoe Chris Chandler Matt Hasselbeck Jake Delhomme Rex Grossman Brad Johnson Rich Gannon These are the names of several quarterbacks who were far from elite that helped lead their team to Super Bowl appearances in recent memory. Granted, with the exception of Dilfer and Johnson, they all lost in the championship. However, I don't think that discounts the fact that they helped contribute towards something special for their football teams. The common denominator for most of these quarterbacks was the strong supporting cast, team, and environment that was surrounding them and so critical towards their success. Jason, like most quarterbacks, needs all the right pieces around him. If you want to give up on Campbell after showing strong progress in hopes of landing the next Montana, Brady, etc., then you may be waiting a while. While we don't have a legend on our hands in Jason, his progress suggests that he's not so much of a lame duck either. Doug Williams and Mark Rypien weren't legends - the teams built around them were though, thus helping their individual performances be special. In my mind, next year isn't about winning the Super Bowl. Nor is the year after for that matter. Before we pull the plug on the Campbell project, I'd suggest we be extra sure. Time is on our side...I hope patience is too. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KingGibbs Posted December 21, 2009 Share Posted December 21, 2009 I'll state my argument here as I have in many threads... It's a pro-Campbell argument...If you think we should replace Campbell... Who do we replace him with? No one seems to be able to answer this question. I completely agree with Jaws. Campbell has his shortcomings, and if we had an opportunity to upgrade, it wouldn't be a terrible idea. But I don't see that ability to upgrade and keeping Campbell another year may show that he's even better than we thought he was... or it could show he's not what we need at the QB position. Either way, I think next year is another year for Jason Campbell. This has been my argument also Dawg. If he keeps progressing like he has the last month it would be foolish not to keep him and at least draft a QB in the mid-rounds to keep him on his toes. This years crop of FA QB's is comparable to the corn field after a long drought. Can't even make popcorn out of these FA's. It's a Catch 22 really. BTW. Let's not forget that he is really developing chemistry with Davis and Thomas. A vital part of a QB's success is to be on the same page with his pass catchers. Obviously. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KDawg Posted December 21, 2009 Share Posted December 21, 2009 I would look to draft one, and have a total, open competition between JC and Colt Brennan after the season is over.Let the winner play, while the new QB gets groomed. So, you're advocating the resigning of Campbell either way. You're not one of the people I'm referring to, although I didn't make that clear. I would say open competition next year between Brennan and Campbell is a given. And perhaps even a third party QB (I'd like to see Brooks Bollinger involved in a competition) and perhaps even a rookie. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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