ArmchairRedskin Posted December 20, 2009 Share Posted December 20, 2009 You do realize that Sherman Lewis isn't calling plays stored in his memory don't you?Do you realize that the plays called are charted according to a game plan? Do you realize that the game plan is determined by Zorn's scheme? Do you doubt Chris Meidt's assertion that Lewis takes a back seat in the game planning during the week and that it's still being done by the same people who did it before Lewis came on board -- Meidt, Sherm Smih with Jim Zorn's input and approval? So the playcalls have no effect on how the game plays out? Lewis just reads off a script? Gimme a break. It's already been reported and I've already mentioned that small things have been changed by Lewis, such as route depth. Timing of the play calls is crucial. Zorn was calling routes designed to go against zone coverage when the defense was giving him man coverage. Lewis, obviously, is not making those types of mistakes. I don't doubt that Lewis has nothing to do with the gameplanning, but ultimately, he makes the decision on what type of call to make against the present defense in the present situation. That is key. You can gameplan till your nose bleeds, but you have to be able to know what plays will work in any given situation. Zorn had not been doing that. That's what Merril made crystal clear. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Oldfan Posted December 20, 2009 Share Posted December 20, 2009 Your are, again, presuming that Zorn is behind the improvement. Thats a conclusion that while its possible is also potentially false. We have rehashed this argument in thread after thread and neither of us have conclusive evidence to prove exactly what or whom is due what credit for the improvement.There is at least a chace that Zorn is not the main force behind the improvement. If its true that Zorn is NOT chiefly responsible for the improvement then making a change at Head Coach for someone with an offensive background and a much superior record and experience running a scheme with the same roots as our current scheme is not dim witted. Bottom line though is it does not really matter what folks on here, quick witted or dim witted think. It what people who are much closer and who have access to first hand information and a far greater level of understanding of the factors in play here think that matters. All evidence is that they believe its is time for a change. I have a long history of challenging the decisions made by Dan Snyder and the front office which were, almost without exception, applauded by most Redskins fans. Rarely, have I been proven wrong. So, your argument that the front office has better information, and thus a better understanding than I do, falls on deaf ears. As to your argument, you admit that there has been significant improvement in the offense despite all the odds against it. And, you argue that since there's "at least a chance" that Jim Zorn's two years of effort was not the driving force behind the improvement, that his firing was justifiable. I'll give you another scenario that makes more sense. The decision to fire Jim Zorn was made months ago by the impatient Dan and Vinny who were prodded by an impatient fanbase. No one expected the offense to start performing this way, especially with an O-line comprised of backups. After the Sherman Lewis debacle and the raw treatment of Zorn, they couldn't find a way to gracefully back off. Enter Bruce Allen. I'm not sure what he's good at, but he's George's son. Shanahan -- it's a splashy hire. The fanbase will love it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Seabee1973 Posted December 20, 2009 Share Posted December 20, 2009 Lewis. Sherm Lewis. He calls the plays. Merril wasn't proven wrong. He nailed Zorn's playcalling. Same plays being called Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Oldfan Posted December 20, 2009 Share Posted December 20, 2009 So the playcalls have no effect on how the game plays out? Lewis just reads off a script? Straw man arguments. Do posters in this forum know any other sly debating tricks? Zorn was calling routes designed to go against zone coverage when the defense was giving him man coverage.The game plan determines this. So, if this has now changed as you assert without evidence, then it was not the result of Sherman Lewis's playcalling. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mooka Posted December 20, 2009 Share Posted December 20, 2009 I have my fingers crossed. I hope Dallas beats us to him. I don't want him here. I'm not thrilled with Shanahan here because he'll rebuild our offense which will be a mistake, but no NFCE team should be hoping Dallas gets him.His schemes fit their offense perfectly. Romo sits to pee will excel as he is dangerous when outside the pocket and their O-Line has problems with assignments and will fare much better in a simpler zone blocking scheme. Your other points are inconsistent. You give Shanahan no credit for Gibbs' zone blocking, yet give Sherman Lewis no credit for the playcalling. Its one or the other. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Seabee1973 Posted December 20, 2009 Share Posted December 20, 2009 Zorn was calling routes designed to go against zone coverage when the defense was giving him man coverage. . If that were true it would create a mismatch for the offense and give them a huge advantage Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ArmchairRedskin Posted December 20, 2009 Share Posted December 20, 2009 Straw man arguments. Do posters in this forum know any other sly debating tricks?. The game plan determines this. So, if this has now changed as you assert without evidence, then it was not the result of Sherman Lewis's playcalling. Are you kidding me? You don't sit up there as a playcaller and just call plays from a menu, coverage be damned. If it was that easy Lewis wouldn't be here and we would have scored a lot more points against those gawd awful teams we played earlier in the year. You have plays for every situation. You have to discern when to call a run, a pass, playaction, or whatever. Zorn wasn't calling plays to get us into any sort of rhythm. We would sputter to get started and fail in the redzone. You are basically saying that the gameplan dictates the playcalls. I say the situation dictates how the gameplan is implemented. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ArmchairRedskin Posted December 20, 2009 Share Posted December 20, 2009 Same plays being called Same plays used in the right situations. Not pass plays designed for zone coverage called against man coverage. Man you guys are thick. Wow. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Oldfan Posted December 20, 2009 Share Posted December 20, 2009 Your other points are inconsistent. You give Shanahan no credit for Gibbs' zone blocking, yet give Sherman Lewis no credit for the playcalling. Its one or the other. Why is it one or the other? They're two different things. Zone-blocking was an innovation by Gibbs which, without doubt, had a major impact on the Broncos offense. I'm willing to give Shanny a little credit for allowing it's use, but the main point is that this innovation is not an advantage of his creation that he will bring to the Redskins -- it's old news. I can grant that it's quite possible that Sherman Lewis's play calling has helped. My position is that it just isn't possible for the playcalling itself to be the major factor driving the kind of progress we've seen from the offense. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mooka Posted December 20, 2009 Share Posted December 20, 2009 Why is it one or the other? They're two different things.Zone-blocking was an innovation by Gibbs which, without doubt, had a major impact on the Broncos offense. I'm willing to give Shanny a little credit for allowing it's use, but the main point is that this innovation is not an advantage of his creation that he will bring to the Redskins. I can grant that it's quite possible that Sherman Lewis's play calling has helped. My position is that it just isn't possible for the playcalling itself to be the major factor driving the kind of progress we've seen from the offense. One is without a doubt. The other has a doubt. One obviously has a major impact, the other can't possibly have a major impact. Offensive line vs playcalling. Both just smaller parts of the overall football team. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Oldfan Posted December 20, 2009 Share Posted December 20, 2009 One is without a doubt. The other has a doubt. One obviously has a major impact, the other can't possibly have a major impact. Offensive line vs playcalling. Both just smaller parts of the overall football team. Sorry, you lost me. Would you mind rephrasing? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wildbill1952 Posted December 20, 2009 Share Posted December 20, 2009 I have my fingers crossed. I hope Dallas beats us to him. I don't want him here.I agree. But I would be interested in hearing your reasons. I think his two SB's were linked to Elway, and barring finding another Elway, he's going to have 7 or 8 years of mediocrity before he finally leaves. Admittedly, I would like to see Zorn for one more year and see what happens. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mooka Posted December 20, 2009 Share Posted December 20, 2009 Sorry, you lost me. Would you mind rephrasing? Any argument you can make that is isn't possible for the playcalling itself to be a major factor, you can also make for Alex Gibbs' zone blocking schemes. A coach like Mike Shanahan is going to have very successful coaches and coordinators under him. Its a long line of success branching backwards from Bill Walsh to Sid Gillman. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MartinC Posted December 20, 2009 Share Posted December 20, 2009 If that were true it would create a mismatch for the offense and give them a huge advantage I'm fascinated. How? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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