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Lame Ducks


Burgold

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I don't know if Zorn is or isn't a lame duck, but there seems to be an ongoing threme that there is something cruel and unusual going on in what's going on (or not) at Redskins Park. They speak of the notion that Allen or Snyder should not be talking to any potential coaching prospects and that it's all but evil to do so.

Bull.

Every year, from the pro ranks to the college ranks there are guys who know their heads are on the chopping block. In fact, there are guys who know they've been canned and it is their job to see the season through. That's standard operating procedure. A GM at this point should be doing his due diligence and creating lists... maybe even having preliminary conversations.

Does it suck for the incumbant head coach? Sure, it does, but it's part and parcel of what every coach goes through and they know it coming in. What Allen does owe Zorn is the opportunity to be evaluated, but not given the benefit of the doubt. At this point, at 4-9 with the former GM fired and having his playcalling duties stripped, Zorn would have to be a moron not to believe his job was in serious jeopardy. He would have to be a moron to think that no one would send out feelers and start looking at replacement prospects.

That said, I want Zorn to make Snyder and Allen's job as tough as possible. I want to see what we saw against the Saints and built upon against the Raiders and I want to demolish the Giants, Cowboys, and Chargers. I'd like Zorn to dare them to look like fools for firing him or make it so if he got fired he'd be picked up in a heart beat.

But, Snyder is not doing Zorn wrong by looking and talking at this point. He's doing what every FO in collegic or pro sports does when their team has undergone a terrible season. They are evaluating options. And that is the right thing to do.

There are lots of reasons to beat Snyder up. This isn't one of them.

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I may sound redundant here..but my personal belief is that things have improved 100% percent since we gave vinny his walking papers...I was reading about Shotty...and some of the things Vinny would tell him when he was our head coach...I now understand why most top coaches ran when Danny pulled out his check book and pen...we can now get a legit/good coach to run this team...not saying Zorn is not a great guy or a good coach...I just got the impression that in the past ...most top coaches did not want this job...god bless Zorn and all...but he is the type of guy who is up for any challenge...but now i get the impression we will be able to get a legit coaching staff and start building like most nfl teams have been doing

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If Allen blows up the team and the coaches, all the Nancies should be prepared to be quiet.

Sometimes you get what you ask for.

Having said that, we have some old guys as coaches who are probably looking for a reason to retire...so it wouldn't surprise me to see a few retirements, a promotion or two, and the new coach to bring in a few.

As for players, should Shanny get the job, he still has connections to players who were on his team. I'd expect at least a couple of those guys to be on the squad next year to ensure conformity in the locker room.

I'm hoping for improvement next year, but I think just getting used to the NFCE will be a big adjustment for any HC.

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On what we should do. I don't know. I want to see more. I do think if we finish the season really strong then I'd like to give Zorn one more go, but there are also plenty of legitimate reasons that Zorn has provided for his ouster.

But, in either case, the Redskins beginning a search is not a low bowl and an unusual practice. They ought to have their lists ready. It's just normal professional sports. Mind you, in my opinion they should also keep an open mind that includes both the possibility of an outside hire and keeping things intact.

But what they are doing is the right thing.

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All I know is that the mediocrity with the current staff and players isn't getting it done. I'm encouraged that we are finally inserting football people in to the FO, something that is long overdue. How that story plays out is yet to be determined but ready to let these folks make their decisions in whatever fashion they sit fit.

I'm looking forward to kicking back, just being a fan and watching things unfold.

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I'm starting to think the Skins should want Dallas to win out and then lose in the playoffs if they really want Shanahan. I don't believe he's the best guy but who knows, he might get lucky and he is a good coach when he has the talent just don't let him run the draft. We would quickly go from a top 10 defense to a bottom 5 defense.

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The right thing to do is keep zorn one more year...His offense is clicking lets not blow it up AGAIN when things are going right!

Keep it going and draft OL early!!!!!

I like this. I would like to see how good this offense could be with a solid OL now that most of the players seem like they are all on the same page.

Earlier this year I would've sworn that the coaches accidentally handed out different playbooks to everyone.

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At this point I think you have to just be content(as if) to just let Bruce Allen do his job. If he keeps Zorn or if he brings in a different guy, it is going to take two to three years to reap the changes he makes.

This requires patience, something there isn't a lot of here.

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Zorn continues to get treated like crap and takes it gracefully. Is there anything left to understand why he failed as a HC? He is a doormat.

This is the point of the thread. He's not being treated like crap right now. He's being treated like every other coach who has had a miserable season and no history of success. It's standard operating procedure for coaches to be interviewed (behind the scenes) while a coach finishes off his last lame duck games. It's normal.

If Snyder and Allen when to the media and discussed the coaches they were interviewing and badmouthed Zorn, then he would be done wrong. They're not doing that. How many weeks did people speculate that the VA and Notre Dame coaches were out? No one claimed that they were being done wrong and treated like crap. Right now, this is just what happens every single season to dozens of pro and amateur coaches. It's just a sad part of the reality of this profession.

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The right thing to do is keep zorn one more year...His offense is clicking lets not blow it up AGAIN when things are going right!

Keep it going and draft OL early!!!!!

I totaly agree. This WCO takes 3 years to really learn it, and we are seeing this team come together in Zorns offense. We need to remember that although Lewis is calling the plays, this is Jim Zorns offense, and it is starting to catch fire.

If Zorn is replaced, it must be by Shannahan, due to having the same system, and saving this team from learning another complete and different system.. If we score in the 30's the last 3 games, then I'm not too sure if we should break something that has come together.

Especialy since this scoring streak was against the hardest schedule in the NFL. This same thing happened to us in 1990, and we rode the 91 season the the Super Bowl.

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At this point I think you have to just be content(as if) to just let Bruce Allen do his job. If he keeps Zorn or if he brings in a different guy, it is going to take two to three years to reap the changes he makes.

Disagree ... Skins not that far from being competitive ... biggest problem is at QB. Choose the right replacement for Campbell ... and Skins will surprise to the upside sooner rather than later. I think Allen knows that this is his priority.

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I don't know if Zorn is or isn't a lame duck, but there seems to be an ongoing threme that there is something cruel and unusual going on in what's going on (or not) at Redskins Park. They speak of the notion that Allen or Snyder should not be talking to any potential coaching prospects and that it's all but evil to do so.

As long as they aren't trying to deceive people, I don't have a problem with it.

If they have told Jim the truth, that's fine. However, Jim Zorn is either being deceived or he is trying to deceive us because he seems to think he is being evaluated by Allen.

If indeed it is true that Shanahan and the team have already been in negotiations, then Bruce Allen has already tried to deceive Redskins fans.

ESPN:

Allen maintained Jim Zorn was still the Redskins' coach.

"Give us some time to see how our relationship develops," Allen said.

That statement implies that Allen is evaluating Zorn, and that the decision hasn't been made to replace him.

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I don't think that statement has any deception in it. Also, it is important what is said privately versus publicly. I suspect Zorn known he is 9/10 out the door, but there is still that slim chance that a miracle can be pulled off. The miracle may have started with the Saints (I think that was the game or the Eagles' that really flipped the story from look what a lousy coach Zorn is to Cerrato failed in his responsibilities to get us what we need).

Publicly, they are actually standing behind their coach which is appropriate until or if something happens. And I think Allen is evaluated Zorn, it probably isn't a completely neutral and objective evaluation, but I think Allen is beginning the process of trying to figure out everything and everyone involved in this team.

Still, as I said, high level sports involve lame ducking all the time and it is the coach's job to put on a brave face and make due. That could either save his job or make him more attractive to potential employers.

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I am ashamed to say, I've been in Zorn's shoes at a job. It sucks big donkey ****, but ultimately it worked out for me. I hated being there. I wasn't treated with any respect, and there was constant chatter about how I was the 'escape goat' and they were planning to axe me. I would get cussed out for doing something right. They even paraded new interviewees (for my position) around while I was working. The amount of disgust I feel for that program is exceeded only by what I feel for the Klan or Skinhead neonazis. The smile on my face when I left that place (even as I was going into uncertainty) was a mile wide. But still, as it was happening, I felt horrible (which I'm sure they enjoyed immensely).

So I left that career path, entered a new one, and am now flourishing.

Point is, Zorn's a nice enough guy that he will ultimately succeed, but it doesn't need to be in DC. Sure, I wouldn't cry if he did get another year, so long as they let him pick a good staff and made him delegate more. And, as in my case, failing at something doesn't necessarily mean you are useless, but it can be a learning experience, which if you are wise, you will use to make yourself better.

Like in that movie: "Why do we fall? So we can learn to pick ourselves up again"

(btw, what movie was that? Batman?)

As far as the franchise, like that toilet of a program I was in, it is their right to look for replacements. You would hope they wouldn't be such d***s about it, but you can't really fault them if they are unhappy with his work.

You know, life's a *****, and then you die. That's why we get high, 'cause you never know when you're gonna go.

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ESPN:

Allen maintained Jim Zorn was still the Redskins' coach.

"Give us some time to see how our relationship develops," Allen said.

That statement implies that Allen is evaluating Zorn, and that the decision hasn't been made to replace him.

I don't think that statement has any deception in it.

If it's true that the Skins are indeed negotiating with Shanahan, then tell me what Allen's statement made in the context of a question about Zorn's future as the coach of the Redskins implies.

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If I am a GM I am evaluating everything and developing everything. If the my grading of Zorn falls suddenly short that is not when I begin my search because I am way, way too far behind the curve. I want to know what all my options are simultaeously so that I can do what's best for the team and my continued employment. It's called due diligence. At the worst, it's called being politic.

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