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Violation of Rule 9: Zorn leads Washington to 3 Super Bowl Titles (MET)


skinsince72

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Sorry for the title but wanted to get your attention! If it's a bit misleading, slap an NNT on me. Not apologizing for this one.(check my post history, I'm usually level headed)

One thing that has me a bit concerned over the last 24 hours is the complete disregard of JZ. Not only here but in the general media.

It's Christmas come early here in ES land with a huge announcement.Usually, we have to wait for February or March for things in DC to get really exciting. But we've been blessed this year. It's not even Christmas and we have the headlines. Peyton and Drew who? Skins hire a a GM!!!(Actually, I feel this pulls us from a possible 25 year SB drought)

Is it Gruden, is it Shanahan? It doesn't really matter what they bring, does it? The only thing that matters is that we have yet another change. We love change!!We've become so accustomed to it, it feels wrong not to have it.

But back to the title of the thread. One thing the Z man brings is leadership. Defined by Wiki as ""Leadership is ultimately about creating a way for people to contribute to making something extraordinary happen." I've been around long enough to know a little bit about this team.(once posted a pic of me in 1974 in a diaper and a Skins helmet,look it up) JZ reminds me of Gibbs way back when. Zorn is genuine and hungry. He doesn't have a SB like Shanahan and Gruden. I don't think anyone here can dispute that. He worked with what was given to him and never gave any excuses. He brought JC along nicely. Remember, the WC offense takes 2-3 years to master.

I'll get off my soapbox now. But if this team decides to keep Zorn, and find an OC that capitalizes on our strengths(a young WR corp, an emerging running game), this team will establish itself as a perennial powerhouse. You know? Like the 80's!!ll

Then, maybe, 1992 won't be such a distant memory.

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JZ reminds me of Gibbs way back when. Zorn is genuine and hungry.

Except that Gibbs had quite the resume when he took over. And then he won Super Bowls right out of the gate.

I like Zorn. And, depending on how these last games go, I'd (as a fan) be willing to keep an open mind on his future with the team. But... I don't think it'd be a big loss if he moved on. He's held the team together and kept them medium, but I don't think that's what this team needs right now. NE is a team that needs to stay medium. Indy is a team that needs to stay medium.

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Jim Zorn, when he became the 27th head coach of the Washington Redskins, was given a playoff team. That team started well(6-2) during the halfway point of his rookie head coaching season, but then collapsed the second half of the season. The Redskins struggled against bad teams like the Rams, the Browns, the Seahawks, and lost to the worst team in the league last year, the Bengals. Then the same thing that happened during the last half of the season last year, started happening this year. In 2009, the Redskins lost to sorry teams like the Detroit Lions, Carolina Panthers, Kansas City Chiefs. They should have defeated the Eagles both times, and the offense failed to put the ball into the endzone in Dallas, much like the Rams game earlier this year. Also, the team barley beat Tampa Bay, the worst team in the NFL right now.

If Norv Turner can be fired with his team having a winning record, why can't Zorn be fired for having a losing record? Face it. Jim Zorn was Snyder's worst hire since Steve Spurrier.

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Except that Gibbs had quite the resume when he took over. And then he won Super Bowls right out of the gate.

I like Zorn. And, depending on how these last games go, I'd (as a fan) be willing to keep an open mind on his future with the team. But... I don't think it'd be a big loss if he moved on. He's held the team together and kept them medium, but I don't think that's what this team needs right now. NE is a team that needs to stay medium. Indy is a team that needs to stay medium.

,

Not exactly right out the gate. The next year though. Still, unheard-of by todays standards. Went 8-8 his first year (sound familiar?).

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Might want to change the title.

I think if given the chance Zorn will be succfull that playoff team had to win out in order to make the playoffs same thing with 05 team Gibbs had basically a 6or 7 win team every season he was here the teams overachieved and made the playoffs twice. If we had made the playoffs 4 consective years I could see someone makeing a point that Zorn had destroye dthis team or something but This team is right in line with those teams

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I'm hoping that Allen gives Zorn a chance to make his case for staying a third year. (However, I think that Snyder may already have made his mind up and is actively pursuing a 'name' HC to replace Zorn.)

I know much is made of Zorn inheriting a 'playoff' team -- but it was a team that barely squeaked into the playoffs. And it was a team with an O-line that was getting very old and brittle, a running back who was in decline, a QB who was having to relearn a new system, and WRs who weren't the prototype fit for the WCO.

And outside of the influx of receivers to train, Cerrato did not bring in much to help Zorn ramp up the offense. Because that because on the defensive side of the ball, the Skins had some rebuilding to do and this ate up the FA signings, and some of the draft choices. Springs, Washington, Griffin, Daniels were getting old, and not available for a full season -- and there was also the issue of finding a way to fill in the gap ST left. Zorn's 'playoff' offense was left on-hold, as the Cerrato used picks and FA money to help the defense, and opted to look for 'bargains' as an economy upgrade for the troubled offensive line.

I'm still admiring what Zorn has been able to accomplish under very difficult circumstances. I still believe that Zorn has promise as an HC --and getting better with each week of on-the-job training. I'm still hoping we retain him.

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An emerging running game?

Dude, if we stumbled on a Steven Jackson or a Chris Johnson while I was hibernating, let me know, 'cause Ganther sure ain't the answer we're looking for.

Running game. 12th in 2007 and 8th in 2008. We can debate 2009 with 2nd, 3rd, and 4th stringers taking a lead role. Don't forget teams keyed up on the run the first 8 games of the season.

Not to get off the subject, but my point is that JZ did an outstanding job of keeping the wheels from falling of the bus. This was probably the most instable year we have had in over a decade(well maybe short of the Spurrier era). I think he can lead a team, bring coaches together, bridge the gap between the FO and coaches, and appease the fans. Who else in the last 8 years(excluding JGII) has done that?

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Jim Zorn, when he became the 27th head coach of the Washington Redskins, was given a playoff team. That team started well(6-2) during the halfway point of his rookie head coaching season, but then collapsed the second half of the season. The Redskins struggled against bad teams like the Rams, the Browns, the Seahawks, and lost to the worst team in the league last year, the Bengals. Then the same thing that happened during the last half of the season last year, started happening this year. In 2009, the Redskins lost to sorry teams like the Detroit Lions, Carolina Panthers, Kansas City Chiefs. They should have defeated the Eagles both times, and the offense failed to put the ball into the endzone in Dallas, much like the Rams game earlier this year. Also, the team barley beat Tampa Bay, the worst team in the NFL right now.

If Norv Turner can be fired with his team having a winning record, why can't Zorn be fired for having a losing record? Face it. Jim Zorn was Snyder's worst hire since Steve Spurrier.

I disagree with the argument that he was handed a playoff team. I understand that they did go to the playoffs the year before, but that doesn't mean that they were truly a playoff caliber team. 6-2 shocked everyone if I remember correctly, so it's not like everyone was expecting the Skins to be a great team. If anything I think the expectation was to fail. 8-8 was just about right - a mediocre record for a mediocre team. My point is, I don't think had Gibbs returned he would have done much better.

I personally feel kind of bad for Zorn. He just didn't deserve how this has all gone down. It's an exercise in total humiliation, yet he has not given up. I hope he gets another chance somewhere else, because there's no way he's coming back next year.

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I know much is made of Zorn inheriting a 'playoff' team -- but it was a team that barely squeaked into the playoffs. And it was a team with an O-line that was getting very old and brittle, a running back who was in decline, a QB who was having to relearn a new system, and WRs who weren't the prototype fit for the WCO.

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Agree 100%. That playoff team was a bonus for us fans. TC coming in and taking us to the playoffs was extra ordinary. But a fluke nevertheless. I'll take a playoff fighting tooth and nail, don't get me wrong. But there's nothing like walking through the playoffs daring a team to put their cleats on and take OUR field.

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Agree 100%. That playoff team was a bonus for us fans. TC coming in and taking us to the playoffs was extra ordinary. But a fluke nevertheless. I'll take a playoff fighting tooth and nail, don't get me wrong. But there's nothing like walking through the playoffs daring a team to put their cleats on and take OUR field.

And I think that is where Zorn could take us. A new beginning. Shanahan or Gruden could make a dent in the next 5 years. But I want a 15 year coach.

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When something like this happens it's fun to speculate. That's what's happening now. The GM and Snyder have at least said all the right things about studying the tape and giving everyone a chance. It's us and the media that have gone into a frenzy about the next coach. Certainly, if one looks at the last half of 08 and the first half of 09 Zorn earned a ticket out of here and he hasn't yet done enough to salvage the season.

He actually took his demotion very poorly in public. Much worse than when Head Coaches Fassel or Billick had their playcalling was removed from them. Zorn looked and acted beaten and broken. Since then, he has regrouped as has the team. I'd still very much like it if he became the man, but I haven't seen enough to think that he is. We're doing better, but we've surrendered too many leads and only twice have been the superior team on the field. I want more evidence that he can out coach a coach and that this team can become a winner and a big winner with him.

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Not apologizing for this one.

You will need to if you want to loose the NNT lol. Anyway, I like Zorn he is a good guy and I think he will be great but this year was too bad for there not to be serious changes. Obviously, with a top 5 D, if we bring in a strong OC this team can return to greatness soon but Shanny does gives us better leadership (NOW). That being said, no doubt in my mind, JZ will be an awesome NFL head coach.

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One can not deny that Zorn has been the consumate professional through all of this. I also applaud him for having the team very prepared the last month and if it weren't for that dat gamn Suisham and Landry, we would be pushing for a wildcard.

Yeah, but the problem is that he did NOT have this team prepared at the start of the season.

I'm honestly a bit torn on JZ. On the one hand I would really like for him to be given more of a chance, but on the other I'm fearful that if he sticks around that the "stay medium" attitude is not going to be of a lot of benefit.

I've also thought of the possible comparisons to Marty. Marty was of course an established coach and started here 0-5 against mainly some bad teams before turning it around. He also followed up his 8-8 season in San Diego with a 4-12 clunker, but of course he ultimately had a more talented squad there as well with a better FO structure.

This season has just seemed to be endless and its only going to get worse over the next few weeks with all the speculation.

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An emerging running game?

Dude, if we stumbled on a Steven Jackson or a Chris Johnson while I was hibernating, let me know, 'cause Ganther sure ain't the answer we're looking for.

I would personally like to see what Ganther's got. I felt he has done a good job coming in and having to step up with all the RB injuries. I want to see what he can do next season when we have hopefully a new OL and quarterback.

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I'm hoping that Allen gives Zorn a chance to make his case for staying a third year. (However, I think that Snyder may already have made his mind up and is actively pursuing a 'name' HC to replace Zorn.)

.

Maybe that's why Allen was brought in now. To evaluate Zorn on the last 3 games and make the final decision. Maybe Snyder felt like he was just not objective enough and will leave that decision up to Allen.

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it's interesting to me how many people act like MODS on this site... i wonder if you people making "corrections" to other posters are rolling your windows down telling people they're speeding on the highway too...

anyway, there is no comparison to Zorn/Gibbs. Yeah, Zorn didn't go 0-5 (something like that) in his 1st season but he also is seeming to be more and more lost in his gameplanning.

none of us know what happens behind closed doors but Zorn just doesn't seem "capable". and at this point, we can't really say what affect he has had on JC either.

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it's interesting to me how many people act like MODS on this site... i wonder if you people making "corrections" to other posters are rolling your windows down telling people they're speeding on the highway too...

anyway, there is no comparison to Zorn/Gibbs. Yeah, Zorn didn't go 0-5 (something like that) in his 1st season but he also is seeming to be more and more lost in his gameplanning.

none of us know what happens behind closed doors but Zorn just doesn't seem "capable". and at this point, we can't really say what affect he has had on JC either.

To a degree, it's encouraged behavior. Self-policing helps make the board better. Also, if we monitor, it means the mods don't have to be quite so overworked or violent to clear the underbrush. Now sometimes, we become overzealous and ridiculous, but heck the OP admitted that his title and thread were over the top.

I don't think this is a bad thread though.

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But back to the title of the thread. One thing the Z man brings is leadership. Defined by Wiki as ""Leadership is ultimately about creating a way for people to contribute to making something extraordinary happen." I've been around long enough to know a little bit about this team.(once posted a pic of me in 1974 in a diaper and a Skins helmet,look it up) JZ reminds me of Gibbs way back when. Zorn is genuine and hungry. He doesn't have a SB like Shanahan and Gruden. I don't think anyone here can dispute that. He worked with what was given to him and never gave any excuses. He brought JC along nicely. Remember, the WC offense takes 2-3 years to master.

I don't know if Zorn is going to bring us any SB titles, but I can find some layers of truth in your comments.

Zorn is a true leader. There is no denying that.

Somewhere back at 2-5 or 3-7 a lot of coaches would've lost the team completely. You can deny it all you want but at some point, when a season is lost, players stop playing hard and start thinking about the offseason and what the future holds. Players aren't going to risk career-threatening injuries to win a game or two when their team's season is already down the drain.

Somewhere amid losing the season and being neutered by Vinny Cerrato, Zorn found a way to make this team continue to play hard and was man enough to walk out on that field every Sunday and stand there with his team proudly, knowing that his future is elsewhere and knowing that he's been stripped of his duties and emasculated as a coach.

So Zorn deserves some credit. He could've given up and let his team quit a long time ago, but instead he has these guys coming out and taking the Saints into OT, trying to spoil their season. There's something to be said for that.

I don't think he's going to be here next season, but at the same time I don't want Shanahan or Gruden here either. No coach has won a SB with two different teams in the history of the NFL and neither of these guys are going to change that.

Now that Snyder is finally changing the structure of the organization it would be shame to go back to our "big name" coach ways and not look for an up and coming guy that actually has the credentials to be a HC in this league (unlike Zorn). A guy that is hungry and not coming here for a payday like Gruden and Shanahan would be.

If we do go for one of those guys however, at least Shanahan was fired from Denver and may have something to prove. Plus he would bring his son here who is a very good OC in Houston.

Gruden however, is happy where he's at and if Snyder makes him an offer he can't refuse, then we'll just be in the same boat we have been for the last decade+ .

But again, I don't want either of these guys here. I'm not saying that Zorn should stay either BTW.

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I think Zorn did lose the team. I think when he looked completely lost, began to flounder, and then lost the thing he loved dearest something happened. Either the team rallied to him or he found a second wind and rallied the team. But there is no doubt that the man I saw in the middle of the season was rudderless and his team was falling about. Just think about the tackling and tremendous lack of effort by some of these guys.

It could be Zorn reached down after that and found something within himself and pulled his team back off the cliff, but he did lose the team. The fact that the team came back is an incredible fete. I don't know who it belongs to though.

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this zorn love kills me

a man that cannot stick up for himself becomes a sympathy figure unbelievable.

As much as he is a nice guy it still does not take away from the fact

he is and soon to be was over is head

as a head coach

a offender of timeouts and arguably the worst 60 minute game mangers in the nfl..

As they saying goes every man nows when it is time to stand up and fight , there is no shame going into fight and get your ass kicked the biggest shame is not standing up to fight at all

I would have more sympathy and respect for him If he did and all for 3million dollars

smh

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Not exactly right out the gate. The next year though. Still, unheard-of by todays standards.

Mike Tomlin. It can be done.

Also, I don't think the team is rallying behind Zorn's leadership. To me they are rallying against the way Zorn is being treated. In my opinion, he sucks as a head coach.

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