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The Voice and Leadership the Republican Party is Looking for...


Ron78

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I'm not saying that he didn't have a good reason that a lot of people would respect, because he does.

The stark reality, though, is that when your opponent can run ads (correctly) saying that you pled guilty to torturing a prisoner in Iraq, and were forced to resign, narrowly avoiding a long prison sentence, you're going to lose a national election.

"Yeah, but..." is too complicated, takes too long, and won't satisfy everyobody.

There are, no doubt, large groups of people that would love the guy for it.

Many of those groups are core Republican constituencies.

It wouldn't play as well, though, with the so-called "swing voters" every politician has to win to win a national election.

You find guys like this in the House, not the White House.

That's just politics.

I don't know. I don't think his demographic will be as impacted by it as you say, but we will see.

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I don't know. I don't think his demographic will be as impacted by it as you say, but we will see.

That's the point. It's not his demographic he has to worry about. It's everybody else. Nobody wins a national election without pulling in a fair amount of "swing voters".

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I'm not saying that he didn't have a good reason that a lot of people would respect, because he does.

The stark reality, though, is that when your opponent can run ads (correctly) saying that you pled guilty to torturing a prisoner in Iraq, and were forced to resign, narrowly avoiding a long prison sentence, you're going to lose a national election.

"Yeah, but..." is too complicated, takes too long, and won't satisfy everyobody.

There are, no doubt, large groups of people that would love the guy for it.

Many of those groups are core Republican constituencies.

It wouldn't play as well, though, with the so-called "swing voters" every politician has to win to win a national election.

You find guys like this in the House, not the White House.

That's just politics.

Well your wrong he was charged with assault and misconduct, he was not convicted in a court of law but recieved non judicial punishment, finally he was not forced to resign but retired having more than 20 years and having his career ended because of the article 15, and if the swing voters heard the whole story I doubt it would be a problem

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Rudy Guliani - stands for everything, and nothing - except lots more people in prison

Alan Keyes - delusional and socially conservative

That's it.

Nice shot at Rudy. Very accurate. 9/11.

Isn't Alan Keyes about as socon as you can get? Very religious driven and thinks everybody is a sinner, for the most part?

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Nice shot at Rudy. Very accurate. 9/11.

Actually, that's pretty accurate. For example, he was for terrorist trials in NYC after 9/11 but is now against it because that's exactly what a Democrat is doing. On a national stage, I actually think that he'd go farther as a Dem or better yet an independent.
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Believe me, I wish you nothing but the best in converting the GOP into the party of real fiscal conservatism.

I think this country would thrive if the fundamental choices it faced were Democratic do-gooderism vs. Republican thrift. Both values are vitally important, and both need to be held in check at times.

Sadly, I don't see it actually happening, not in my lifetime. The social conservative movement is huge and easily mobilized, and it isn't going to give up the GOP reigns anytime soon.

I feel the same way, except in my view the fatal flaw of the GOP is being overly friendly with business interests. Protection of business interests has made its way deep into the philosophy.

This is especially evident when there is a conflict between something that science says is a problem, and profits. I just do not trust the GOP to make the science-based choice in these situations.

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Well your wrong he was charged with assault and misconduct, he was not convicted in a court of law but recieved non judicial punishment, finally he was not forced to resign but retired having more than 20 years and having his career ended because of the article 15, and if the swing voters heard the whole story I doubt it would be a problem

And the only perjury charges ever brought against Clinton were thrown out of court without ever going to trial.

That means that nobody claims he committed Perjury, right?

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Actually, that's pretty accurate. For example, he was for terrorist trials in NYC after 9/11 but is now against it because that's exactly what a Democrat is doing. .

He used to be all for gay rights as NYC mayor, now is against gay marriage as a national Republican figure.

He was very very pro choice as NYC mayor (including public funding of abortions), and has become pro life as a national GOP candidate.

He was pro gun control, now is totally against it.

Pick an issue.

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Well your wrong he was charged with assault and misconduct, he was not convicted in a court of law but recieved non judicial punishment, finally he was not forced to resign but retired having more than 20 years and having his career ended because of the article 15, and if the swing voters heard the whole story I doubt it would be a problem

OJ was never convicted in a court of law either.

This guy admitted assaulting prisoners and was drummed out of the service. That is going to be hard to spin.

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He used to be all for gay rights as NYC mayor, now is against gay marriage as a national Republican figure.

He was very very pro choice as NYC mayor (including public funding of abortions), and has become pro life as a national GOP candidate.

He was pro gun control, now is totally against it.

Pick an issue.

and he's dressed in drag a bunch of times...:D which doesn't make him a bad person, it just doesn't appeal very much to the republican base...and he publicly cheated on his wife...:silly: How he ever thought he had a chance at being the for president is beyond me. I think he'd make a good Governor. :cool2:

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Believe me, I wish you nothing but the best in converting the GOP into the party of real fiscal conservatism.

I think this country would thrive if the fundamental choices it faced were Democratic do-gooderism vs. Republican thrift. Both values are vitally important, and both need to be held in check at times.

Sadly, I don't see it actually happening, not in my lifetime. The social conservative movement is huge and easily mobilized, and it isn't going to give up the GOP reigns anytime soon.

Who in the hell wants the Social conservatives out of the GOP? Being Gay is against nature and the bibles teachings. Just because pop culture has made it somehow hip, does not mean I need my children influenced by it. This country was not founded by GAY pride parades and I feel it has become so commonplace that it is very harmful to families and children. Sure nice of you PC libs on here to voice your opinion on what the GOP should become. And don't call me homophobic either! "Typical democrat move"

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Who in the hell wants the Social conservatives out of the GOP? Being Gay is against nature and the bibles teachings. Just because pop culture has made it somehow hip, does not mean I need my children influenced by it. This country was not founded by GAY pride parades and I feel it has become so commonplace that it is very harmful to families and children. Sure nice of you PC libs on here to voice your opinion on what the GOP should become. And don't call me homophobic either! "Typical democrat move"

^^^^^ The Voice that the Republican Party has.

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And I would die to keep it that way. Would you die for what you believe?

Unfortunately we are seeing too many people failing to LIVE by their principles.

People who talk big are a dime a dozen. Give me people who don't proclaim but DO.

I hope I shall possess firmness and virtue enough to maintain what I consider the most enviable of all titles, the character of an honest man. ~George Washington

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That's the point. It's not his demographic he has to worry about. It's everybody else. Nobody wins a national election without pulling in a fair amount of "swing voters".

His Demographic includes moderates (IMO). I think this is wishful thinking by those who are hoping for 8 years of Obama.

As ardowling eloquently stated, I do not believe it is going to be much of an issue with the right-leaning independents. We will certainly find out as Col West gains more popularity.

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Unfortunately we are seeing too many people failing to LIVE by their principles.

People who talk big are a dime a dozen. Give me peoplErue who don't proclaim but DO.

So you think I'm talking out of my ass? What unit were you in? Me? 1-189th AHB (attack helicopter battalion)

Are you ready to die for the social freedoms that you so vigorously defend? Gay marriage, drug legalization, etc.

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And the only perjury charges ever brought against Clinton were thrown out of court without ever going to trial.

That means that nobody claims he committed Perjury, right?

I talked about a man of honor who saved his men and admitted he did it, not a man who lied about a blowjob, there is a world of difference there lawyer, you should know that.

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Actually, to be more honest about (my opinion of) the guy's chances:

1) Frankly, the GOB base has pretty much made being pro torture a part of the Party's identity.

2) I know I'm kind of straying into a different thread, here, but I don't think the reason the GOP lost power is because the voters were ticked about the GOP's stance on the things that the GOP likes to call "morality".

They lost power because the economy tanked. And because the voters stopped believing their attempts to blame somebody else.

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In short, I think it's downright tragic that people can express the opinions that the GOP calls "morality", and be cheered. But that doesn't mean it isn't real.

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OJ was never convicted in a court of law either.

This guy admitted assaulting prisoners and was drummed out of the service. That is going to be hard to spin.

Not so, he admitted that he protected his men, and recieved non-judicial punishment after an AR-32 hearing(Grand Jury) did not recommend a courts martial, there was no drumming out show me where he was forced out, but why should you continue if you have no chance to command or progress. You know this but you are spinning it to meet your story lawyer. There's your spin.

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Actually, to be more honest about (my opinion of) the guy's chances:

1) Frankly, the GOB base has pretty much made being pro torture a part of the Party's identity.

2) I know I'm kind of straying into a different thread, here, but I don't think the reason the GOP lost power is because the voters were ticked about the GOP's stance on the things that the GOP likes to call "morality".

They lost power because the economy tanked. And because the voters stopped believing their attempts to blame somebody else.

----------

In short, I think it's downright tragic that people can express the opinions that the GOP calls "morality", and be cheered. But that doesn't mean it isn't real.

Why didn't you reply to my response? Oh by the way torture my ass.

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