That's All I Can Stands, I Can't Stands No More! DON'T LET VINNY OFF THE HOOK!

[Riggo#44]

I feel like I am taking crazy pills here the past two weeks.

People making excuses for Vinny Cerrato......its insane. Look at the overall picture. People want to say "Well, that was a Gibbs signing....." or whatever. But Vinny is a symbol. A symbol of what's wrong with this team. Even if he's getting too much blame, it doesn't matter anymore. They need to do the right thing and remove him from this Organization, 100%.

Just because the past 2 weeks, some players have stepped up, doesn't excuse the fact that a Vinny/Mr. Snyder front office is not good for the Washington Redskins.

Yes, Davis has looked good since Cooley went down. That doesn't mean we shouldn't have taken one or 2 OL earlier in the 2008 NFL Draft. They aren't connected.

Yes Thomas seems to be hitting his stride....same deal as above.

If you support Vinny. Step up.

But for me...the guy is still a loser and needs to go.

I agree 100% -- just b/c Thomas and Davis are playing better -- does not excuse him for ignoring the offensive line or passing on DeSean Jackson, or trading for Taylor, or his idiotic radio show, or for drafting Jimmy Clausen, and still ignoring the line...(that last part hasn't happened, but it will. Trust me.)

[KingGibbs]

We've improved as a team. There's no question about it.

I don't give Vinny the credit for that transition.

Vinny still needs to go.

Yep.

Me neither.

Hell yeah!

[Botched]

What was it that Vinny said about Chris Samuels' injury earlier this year? It was a mental thing?

[praise_gibbs]

See, check my earlier posts, I can give the man credit for some of his draft picks. In what capacity do you believe you were wrong about Cerrato? Do you believe he can successfully run a professional football team or that he just has more than zero talent in evaluating players for the draft?

Personally, I would be fine with him heading up the scouting department. I just believe he's in WAY over his head when it comes to establishing the organizational direction and philosophy of the Washington Redskins.

I think he has a lot more than zero talent in evaluating players for the draft. I'm convinced that the system and environment around Redskins park has a lot to do with how our Redskins fare. And little to do with Vinny Cerrato being over his head. I think it has a lot to do with paying players before they earn it. Grabbing players with no plan or direction. Kind of like throwing darts with a blindfold having been spun around 8-10 times. You MIGHT eventually hit the dart board. I think we always had the talent to be competitive. We just didn't have coaches who were allowed to evaluate their players and use them effectively.

Instead, you have players starting more so because of their contract than because of talent. I'm pointing at Portis and Randle El just to name 2 recent players. Portis is a workhorse, don't get me wrong, but, he was not a fit for this Redskins system. Be it Gibbs or Zorn's version of the WCO. Portis doesn't fit the way the Skins use(d) him. His break away speed is non existent. Antwaan Randle El is more of the same. He is getting paid like a starting WR to field punts and is doing a way below average job in that department. He isn't a terrible WR but, we can get more out of Thomas, Kelly, and Mitchell than we can out of ARE.

You can't just bench them because Snyder will not allow that much money on the bench. You can't trade or cut them because only the Redskins are dumb enough to pay them what they are paying them.

I am not convinced that Vinny is the problem. He may not be the end all solution to lifes every day problems. But, I don't see him as the reason our Skins are an average football team.

I think it's Snyder not being able to sit on his hands and let his FO run the team in the direction they want to go.

I guess since Snyder isn't going to sell the team and he can't technically 'be fired'. That you have to point the barrel at somebody and that is Cerrato? :whoknows:

[honejc]

gotta love these threads. no matter how many of these sprout up, VC is styaing regardless. he has a vice grip on the teet of the mama bear.

he needs to be weened! aka tossed aside like an old pornstar!

[F-16 CHIEF]

Too late. A win over a worthless Raiders team and a Bronco's team who had to loose their starting QB has changed everyone's mind. Now you see why this franchise has blown chunks for 18 years.

[TheLongshot]

Vinny has been the focus of hatred for so long here that I don't think there will ever be people who will change his mind about him. Most of it is unreasonable because he wasn't involved with a lot of the bigger decisions of this organization, like selecting the head coach. In a lot of ways, he's a negative symbol for all the things that have gone wrong with this franchise. Probably because, unlike the owner, Vinny can be fired, but he's still here.

If the guy in charge was someone other than Vinny with the current performance, the poll above would probably be the other way around. We'd be cutting him slack because he's only been at the job two years and was busy in trying to fix the problems inherited from the previous administration. But, because Vinny is associated with the previous administration, it is considered a continuation of the past. Never mind that Vinny had little control in the direction of the franchise and was not the prime mover in making personnel decisions for the team in the 4 years previous.

Vinny's time being in charge has been mixed, and I had some serious reservations with the way he has handled Zorn, but there is little doubt that Vinny comes away from this looking pretty good. The offense has performed a lot better and the young players he drafted are starting to blossom. It isn't perfect, and it isn't all on him, but he deserves some credit here.

[KDawg]

Too late. A win over a worthless Raiders team and a Bronco's team who had to loose their starting QB has changed everyone's mind. Now you see why this franchise has blown chunks for 18 years.

Are you even reading the thread/the poll?

Most people still think he needs to go.

Way to generalize over a VERY small sample size.

[Mark The Homer]

One of the main problems with Vinny is he is Snyder's puppet. That needs to stop, although I know it would require Snyder to acknowledge (even if to only himself) that his meddling has been destructive.

After ten years, it's pretty obvious.

[TD_washingtonredskins]

Grabbing players with no plan or direction. Kind of like throwing darts with a blindfold having been spun around 8-10 times. You MIGHT eventually hit the dart board.

Instead, you have players starting more so because of their contract than because of talent. I'm pointing at Portis and Randle El just to name 2 recent players.

You can't just bench them because Snyder will not allow that much money on the bench. You can't trade or cut them because only the Redskins are dumb enough to pay them what they are paying them.

I am not convinced that Vinny is the problem. He may not be the end all solution to lifes every day problems. But, I don't see him as the reason our Skins are an average football team.

I think it's Snyder not being able to sit on his hands and let his FO run the team in the direction they want to go.

I guess since Snyder isn't going to sell the team and he can't technically 'be fired'. That you have to point the barrel at somebody and that is Cerrato? :whoknows:

Well, you make good points (forgive me for not quoting the entire thing). However, I think the main job of a GM is to make sure there is rhyme and reason to the players you bring in. So, the first point you make is my main beef with Vinny. He does an OK job of picking good players, but there seems to be no direction or organization to his methods.

The contract stuff I'm willing to give him a pass on...I'd agree. I think the owner has a lot more to do with that. However, if he was truly concerned with putting the best product on the field, he would stand up and tell the owner that these are ridiculous contracts.

At some point, if you want to be taken seriously as a GM or VP of Football Operations, you have to draw a line in the sand and tell your owner how to run the football aspects of the team. Theoretically, that's why you were hired. So, at the end of the day, I can't give Vinny a pass because one of two things is happening:

1) He's not doing his job well

2) He's allowing the owner to do parts of his job

[@DCGoldPants]

One of the main problems with Vinny is he is Snyder's puppet. That needs to stop, although I know it would require Snyder to acknowledge (even if to only himself) that his meddling has been destructive.

After ten years, it's pretty obvious.

Remember what George Michael said. Mr. Snyder doesn't know what's wrong.

[ST is my boy]

Too late. A win over a worthless Raiders team and a Bronco's team who had to loose their starting QB has changed everyone's mind. Now you see why this franchise has blown chunks for 18 years.

I dont get this thought. We as fans are at fault for loving our team, and supporting them throught thick and thin? That is so stupid. Im so sorry for doing so.

Its on the owner.......period......he isnt going to change his ways either way.....he is what he is. Every owner in the NFL should be so lucky to have fans that care no matter what.

[bird_1972]

...

What do you think of our ownership?

Do you think Snyder has created an organizational culture of success at Redskins Park?

Do you think we are a "healthy" organization?

[bird_1972]

Remember what George Michael said. Mr. Snyder doesn't know what's wrong.

Which reinforces my opinion that he truly isn't that smart of a man. He's a hustler - that's it. He does not know how to run a conventional company, much less a sports franchise.

[bird_1972]

Every owner in the NFL should be so lucky to have fans that care no matter what.

Instead, Snyder spits in our face when we try to voice our displeasure (see: FedEx sign debacle, suing fans over season tickets).

He doesn't even respect the fans enough to acknowledge our anger with the team and try to engage us to help make it better - both from a management standpoint as well as a game day experience standpoint.

[#98QBKiller]

Lots of whining still about the 08 draft. We needed WRs, a DL and an OL. Vinny happened to draft WRs. They look like good picks. Last year we needed OL & DL and one of the best players in the draft fell to us on DL. I don't blame him for taking Orakpo at all.

Going into the season we could've used a RT. But other than that, Samuels/Dockery/Thomas are considered to be great and/or good at their positions. No one could foresee the kind of injuries we endured this year and most of us didn't know Samuels was playing with a career-threatening injury, including myself.

This isn't support for Vinny but it's being realistic about our OL situation prior to the season.

[StillUnknown]

the greatest trick Cerrato pulled, was convincing some fans that he's not totally incompetent

[A Walton]

We failed to make the playoffs. Which in turn means that we failed to win the division, the NFC and ultimately the Superbowl.

This is what Vinny should be judged on. It is the only metric that matters. And he has failed.

[praise_gibbs]

At some point, if you want to be taken seriously as a GM or VP of Football Operations, you have to draw a line in the sand and tell your owner how to run the football aspects of the team. Theoretically, that's why you were hired. So, at the end of the day, I can't give Vinny a pass because one of two things is happening:

1) He's not doing his job well

2) He's allowing the owner to do parts of his job

I can agree here. My only concern is if and when a brand spanking new GM or VP of Football Operations is on board and Vinny is off doing his radio show or working with a different football team, will that new GM be able to have a voice? Will Snyder still make HIS decisions for HIS football team regardless of whatever structured FO we dreamed for? Will a skillful GM with an impressive track record even want to work for a man like Snyder?

I honestly think our best option is to get Gibbs back in a Parcells role or heck, even get Parcells in a Parcells role. Have that GM report to him and than he to Snyder. I'd even be open to Holmgren since he wants that type of role anyway.

[Fat Stupid Loser]

Too late. A win over a worthless Raiders team and a Bronco's team who had to loose their starting QB has changed everyone's mind. Now you see why this franchise has blown chunks for 18 years.

That's right! Things are coming together, can't you guys see? JC is getting it now, Vinny has been right all along. We beat the Raiders and played with a schizophrenic Philly team until the end, when it counted. JC sucks, but he plays ballsy, that's gotta count for something. Don't change anything! We're on our way.

[Going Commando]

Vinny's not a symbol he's a person. You sound shrill and unreasonable. You're saying that you don't care if he does an excellent job with personnel, you want him to be fired anyway?

Anyway, the events of the season don't really influence my opinion of him all that much because 90% of his job happens in the offseason. I'll call for him to be fired depending on what he does in the draft. If he sells the farm to trade up for a mediocre QB prospect or passes on a stud left tackle for said mediocre QB, then I'll hope he gets fired. But if he keeps crushing the draft with a BPA strategy that infuses our team with young talent across the roster, then you can't really ask for much more from your GM.

It's pretty hard to argue that Vinny hasn't dramatically improved the talent of our roster with his 2008 and 2009 draft and free agency classes. I'm not sure what your beef with him is now. He's an *******? I'll take an ******* as long as he does his job well.

[Lombardi's_kid_brother]

Problem is even we miss the playoffs but win out the reason of the season scoring lots of points do you really want to blow things up?

Oh, God, yes.

[Riggo#44]

It's pretty hard to argue that Vinny hasn't dramatically improved the talent of our roster with his 2008 and 2009 draft and free agency classes. I'm not sure what your beef with him is now. He's an *******? I'll take an ******* as long as he does his job well.

He's infused our team with talent? Really? Then why are we 4-9?

Face it -- this team was poorly constructed from day one. Vinny is good at getting players...NOT building a team.

When has he ever built a consistent, winning football team? He hasn't.

[grantarchy]

vinny is good a finding players in the draft. But that doesn't mean he knows how to build a team. A gm is supposed to bring in players that fit the system and can gel with others. Vinny isn't very good at that.

+1

[praise_gibbs]

He's infused our team with talent? Really? Then why are we 4-9?

Face it -- this team was poorly constructed from day one. Vinny is good at getting players...NOT building a team.

When has he ever built a consistent, winning football team? He hasn't.

He hasn't? In a WHOLE two years? Well, by golly, the man needs to go.