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The Case to keep Jim Zorn


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I think the OP makes a good case for retaining Zorn for a third year.

The Redskins FO and quasi-GM situation may need to change though. While play-calling and the OC duties can be handled by the Sherms -- I think Zorn needs to have more authority over the players. That would include benching Portis or Moss or ARE or anyone who wasn't giving 100% effort or was failing to get the job done.

Since Portis hasn't been playing -- this team's demeanor improved markedly. Letting Clinton get by without practicing, or playing when he wanted to, etc. -- these exceptions and 'special handling' might have been undermining the team. I also think how the other RBs have been making the second effort and breaking tackles set the tone for the entire team. Oftentimes Portis went down after the first contact.

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It'd be pretty tough to keep him. Unless there is stuff going on that we don't see, it's hard to give credit to the turnaround to Zorn... and even if you do, while the offense turned around the Defense began to fall apart and last week the return game was a disaster... actually, it's been a disaster pretty much all season. If Zorn is only HC then that's on his shoulders. He does seem like a scolded man with too little power.

What the Redskins' Zorn need to demonstrate is that they are really on the right track. They need to prove that the Saints and Raiders games weren't mirages. That the young kids are on the right track and Zorn and Vinny are the guys to lead because if you keep Zorn cause he did all right, you have to keep Cerrato. He's the one who assembled the second string that allowed Zorn to excel/keep his job.

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i just dont feel like he's built to be a leader and be a head coach. he's built to be the whipping boy of the FO, and iv'e had enough of that.

_______________________________________________

The Front Office ought to know about beatings, they have been beating themselves for years now.

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I agree with the OP. The WCO offense takes time to set in and we have to be patient. Here are the starting records of some of the more famous WCO Coaches and they compare to what Zorn is doing.

Mike Shanahan

7-9, 1-3 his first 2 seasons

Mike Holmgren

9-7, 6-10 first two seasons with Seahawks (Not counting his Green Bay Years because 1) He had Brett Farve 2) he didn't use the WCO until Seattle)

Jon Gruden

8-8, 8-8 first two seasons

Bill Walsh

2-14, 6-10 first two seasons

As you can see all WCO teams struggled in their first two seasons, followed by a breakout third season and stellar coaching career. Look at Bill Walsh. Can you imagine if San Fransisco would have let him go instead of being patient. No dynasty in the 80's. Patience is a virtue.

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Zorn, by all accounts, has kept a level head and steadied the ship through some of the most criticism any single coach has gone through. Not to mention getting his legs cut underneath him. It was a good idea to bring Sherm in to take pressure of Zorn.

Lets see how the season plays out before we start wanting to bring anyone back.

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It's impossible to keep Zorn.

He doesn't even call the plays, and the players know that his word means nothing.

He isn't calling the shots. The players run over him. You can't lead like that.

Think what you want about Zorn, but the fact that he is "not even calling the plays" is no different than many other coaches in the league that have O-coordinators calling the game. The difference is Zorn had it taken away from him, but many NFL head coaches have someone else calling the plays.

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Duuude? It's the Raiderz!

They are like...super good!

And they like beat super good teams, too!

So that like means that we like beat those like super good teams, too, because we like beat the Raiderzzzzzz!!!

We are like da awesome sauce now!!!

Just to be equally silly...

It was the Liiiiions. They are like super good. And they beat... um

Well, it was the Chiefs. They are like super good. And ten years ago with Joe Montana they beat a couple of teams.

Us beating anyone... heck, us dominating anyone is a quantum leap (as pathetic as that is to say)

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I am not down with it at this point. I think that the players are taking account of themselves and their futures in the NFL, be it with this team or elsewhere. We needed Zorn to improve JC's play, Call plays, manage game planning, manage the clock during games...

apart from the recent improvement in JC what has he really done that is all that great? Sherm has had some part in playcalling and game planning for the week (we don't know to what extent though). And Zorn is the last person I want managing a 2 minute situation regardless of where we are on the field.

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As much as I was wanting change after seeing how pathetic we've looked, I'm thinking it may actually be beneficial for the team to keep the same offense in place.

There is no doubt to me that if we get another coach in here, we will struggle as we always do when getting adjusted to a new system. An offense takes time to develop, and we NEVER have the patience to let that happen around here.

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It'd be pretty tough to keep him. Unless there is stuff going on that we don't see, it's hard to give credit to the turnaround to Zorn... and even if you do, while the offense turned around the Defense began to fall apart and last week the return game was a disaster... actually, it's been a disaster pretty much all season. If Zorn is only HC then that's on his shoulders.

Of course there is stuff going on that we don't see. If we saw it, would we be sitting here speculating? :)

I don't think he's perfect but until I see real evidence to the contrary I also think he can be a good HC. This was meant to be a 3-year experiment so let's not can it after 2 years.

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There is no doubt in my mind that the fanbase is far more impatient than Snyder. The team is improving. That much is undeniable. Taking away Zorn's playcalling duty may be exactly what it was said to be. Removing something from the plate that was clearly too full. I have no problem with Zorn coaching and someone else calling the plays. Works lots of places. Zorn didn't come in a proven experienced head coach. Or even playcalling. Anyone who didn't expect a learning curve is clueless. Give it another year to see if the trend continues. Running another head in here is not going to change the results, IMO.

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I want Zorn gone.

I want JC gone

I want Vinny gone

I want Snyder gone.

All of a sudden everyone wants to keep JC and Zorn because we beat the raiders. Sure we have improved the past few weeks, but couldn't beat those other teams except for the "Raiders". Give me a break. We are supposed to be winning more then 4 games at this point of the season. We are the Washington ****ing Redskins. We as fans are not supposed to be putting up with this inept team. Its great that we won and all, but that is not enough for me and I'm not willing to see this same crap happen to us next year if we stick with the top 2 people I listed above.

Yes JC has improved, but its after 5 1/2 years and we still suck. No thank you. I'm ready to ditch him and Zorn and try and build something that will last and not just to be content with another year of mediocre play.

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There is no doubt in my mind that the fanbase is far more impatient than Snyder. The team is improving. That much is undeniable. Taking away Zorn's playcalling duty may be exactly what it was said to be. Removing something from the plate that was clearly too full. I have no problem with Zorn coaching and someone else calling the plays. Works lots of places. Zorn didn't come in a proven experienced head coach. Or even playcalling. Anyone who didn't expect a learning curve is clueless. Give it another year to see if the trend continues. Running another head in here is not going to change the results, IMO.

This over and over.

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Sorry, Sherm Lewis' arrival marked a complete turn around of the offense. And, if we hadn't had a multitude of injuries, our younger developing players would never have seen any time in the game and we would have shipped them off or replaced them next offseason as busts. I don't like the way he's managed his part of the responsibilities, and the fact that when his responsibilities were cut down the team does 10x better says, to me, he's not the guy.

However, if Sherm Lewis were to stay, and we got some young O Line talent in the draft, then I'd be fine with him here, but I don't see it happening (especially without Lewis, but I guess a year of garbage football wasn't long enough to prove it to some people).

We barely beat the Rams (mostly because the Rams did it to themselves) and now we're going toe to toe with the undefeated Saints? Clearly there's no evidence for improvement whatsoever. (sarcasm marker)

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There is no doubt in my mind that the fanbase is far more impatient than Snyder. The team is improving. That much is undeniable. Taking away Zorn's playcalling duty may be exactly what it was said to be. Removing something from the plate that was clearly too full. I have no problem with Zorn coaching and someone else calling the plays. Works lots of places. Zorn didn't come in a proven experienced head coach. Or even playcalling. Anyone who didn't expect a learning curve is clueless. Give it another year to see if the trend continues. Running another head in here is not going to change the results, IMO.

You glass half full guys are living in a bubble. OF COURSE THE TEAM is improving. Its hard not to improve from rock bottom.

The lions are improving. The rams are improving. The raiders have improved through out the year.

That is the NFL. Very rarely will you see a team play 16 awful games.

The problem is team is getting worse each year. They went from a 9-7 team under Gibbs. To a 8-8 team that went 2-6.

To now a 4-12 or 5-11. Redskins fans believe too much propaganda.

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I want Zorn gone.

I want JC gone

I want Vinny gone

I want Snyder gone.

All of a sudden everyone wants to keep JC and Zorn because we beat the raiders. Sure we have improved the past few weeks, but couldn't beat those other teams except for the "Raiders". Give me a break. We are supposed to be winning more then 4 games at this point of the season. We are the Washington ****ing Redskins. We as fans are not supposed to be putting up with this inept team. Its great that we won and all, but that is not enough for me and I'm not willing to see this same crap happen to us next year if we stick with the top 2 people I listed above.

Yes JC has improved, but its after 5 1/2 years and we still suck. No thank you. I'm ready to ditch him and Zorn and try and build something that will last and not just to be content with another year of mediocre play.

These fans are the type of people who go to welcome homes after losing by 30.

They still feel 1991 was yesterday. And the guys are just going through a brief tough stretch.

NO. 1991 was almost 20 years ago.

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The past four games they have played pretty good football against some good competition. They are 1-3. They have 3 more games against good competition. The only way I could see keeping Zorn & JC is if they go out and convincingly win at least two of them. That would make them 3-4 in the final 7 games which still sucks but at least there are signs of improvement that can translate into something next year. Anything less and they both have to go. 2-5 playing your best ball just isn't going to cut it, even with the injuries and the difficult schedule.

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All of a sudden everyone wants to keep JC and Zorn because we beat the raiders. Sure we have improved the past few weeks, but couldn't beat those other teams except for the "Raiders".

:doh: if you can't see the marked improvements against superior teams the past seven weeks, with basically backups and inexperienced young players,.... sorry but that is the result of very good coaching.

JC the past 7 games has thrown 11 TD's 6 Ints, no fumbles.... not lost fumbles but no fumbles what so ever.

his QBR 2 games above 73, 2 games above 91, 3 games above 106

152/235 64.6% 1749 yards 7.4 YPA 19 sacks

behind a make shift OL, a 3rd string RB, and 2 street FA RB. No Chris Cooley

then we have the emergence of Davis and Devin Thomas.

yes we are 4-9, and 2-5 during the 7 game stretch, but 3 of those loses were against teams, if the season ended today... 2 division winners and a wild card team, by a combined total of 7 points, and loses were more because of defensive failures than offensive struggles.

We upset Denver, and routed an Oakland team that has beaten the Eagles and the Steelers in Pittsburgh the week before.

all positive signs of improvements

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ESPN ran a piece last night, I forget who was apologizing but one of the analysts basically apologized for riding the hiring of sherm and the whole bingo angle, then showed the marked improvement offensively since he has been on board... it was considerable and if it continues for the last 3 games, especially against 3 tough teams, all with playoff potential, then to not take a hard look at keeping the coaching in place would be a bad mistake...

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Norv has one thing on Zorn- he can effectively call plays. Zorn cannot.

The keys were taken away from Zorn, and the offense improved. I don't think that is a coincidence.

Since when did people get the notion that all HC must call plays? There are plnty of HC's that dont call plays.

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Duuude? It's the Raiderz!

They are like...super good!

And they like beat super good teams, too!

So that like means that we like beat those like super good teams, too, because we like beat the Raiderzzzzzz!!!

We are like da awesome sauce now!!!

Children among men... :doh:

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