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AP: Hospital turns away woman in labor, baby dies after home delivery


ljs

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I know I don't know the patient's history. The "you" I put in my post wasn't referring to you OR me, it was a generalized statement.

Furthermore, I'm not saying its a medical emergency. I'm saying that the severity of the condition cannot be determined without proper evaluation.

You're saying abdominal pain doesn't necessitate a medical emergency therefore EMTALA is not applicable. I am saying you are completely wrong about your interpretation of the proper application of EMTALA. A patient HAS TO BE EVALUATED and determined to be stable OR stabilized by medical intervention.

Regardless, this is all besides the point. No one knows what happened here in this case.

In the article, there is a statement that the hospital staff thought that the pain was a result of kidney stones. That is a "proper evaluation" even if it is not correct. With a diagnosis of kidney stones, the patient moves to the back of the line.

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In the article, there is a statement that the hospital staff thought that the pain was a result of kidney stones. That is a "proper evaluation" even if it is not correct. With a diagnosis of kidney stones, the patient moves to the back of the line.

That's fine.

Now you are talking about an individual hospital policy issue, not EMTALA, which is what you were trying to talk about earlier.

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In the article, there is a statement that the hospital staff thought that the pain was a result of kidney stones. That is a "proper evaluation" even if it is not correct. With a diagnosis of kidney stones, the patient moves to the back of the line.

Correct.

I had kidney stones once and this is exactly how it went.

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The Nevada State Board of Nursing has opened a probe into the treatment of a pregnant Las Vegas woman who said she was ignored as she moaned and pleaded for help while waiting for six hours in University Medical Center's emergency room.

UMC is the state hospital and as such they handle good portion of the under/uninsured people in the city, so, the ER is usually packed 24 hours a day there. Waiting this long is not surprising with that many people. It is by far not the best hospital in town, but, it is not a bad one either. My sister used to work there, and her ex husband still does, and they do have some good doctors and nurses, but, the shear number of people that go to that place everyday is hell for the staff to handle in a timely manner. I have seen that place packed to the point of spilling out to the parking lot many times, when going to pick up my sister when she worked there.

I, myself, have experienced long a long waiting time there, once after I had a radiator blow up in my face years ago. I laid on a gurney for 4 1/2 hours before anyone got around to giving me any pain meds and then it took another couple hours before I was seen by a doctor. I would never go to the emergency room there again unless it was absolutely necessary.

While it is a shame that something like this happened, we only see one side of the story here. The article does not give much information to really determine exactly what happened.

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Directly from the story,the couple left the ER.

That was without ever being seen by a physician or a nurse. A Nurse assistant seemed to have an overbearing and seemingly inappropriate rapport.

But, unfortunately they left- not even against medical advice- without ever seeing a medical professional.

It is an outright attrocity it came to this and the familycertainly deserves sympathy. But, the ER's areoverwhelmed, and unfortunatelyyou have to wait long hours. It's easy to get frustrated and leave,but it could be life threatening.

The hospital will certainly get dinged. But, keep in mind, I wouldn't be surprised if not a singlenurse or doctor even knew sdhe was there. Pretty sad indeed.

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In the article, there is a statement that the hospital staff thought that the pain was a result of kidney stones. That is a "proper evaluation" even if it is not correct. With a diagnosis of gall stones, the patient moves to the back of the line.
I don't follow. You are stating that she was given a proper evaluation. The article isn't clear precisely what happened, but since she began birth so shortly afterwards it seems likely there was no examination at all. I hope to hell they at least observed her for a while and asked her some questions, but we don't even know that. "I think its a gall stone" doesn't sound like a proper evaluation to me.

<edit>I do see a reference to a guy taking blood pressure, although its not clear he was taking HER blood pressure. </edit>

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Don't see that the hospital did anything wrong,the patient's ignorance and a normally crowded ER are the two critical issues.

The ER staff are not all knowing,nor likely to pull a House and diagnose ya from a glance:silly:

Neither of which was overcome by the woman leaving.

45 yrs old and didn't know she was six months pregnant?

That simple fact changes the wait time drastically.

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Don't see that the hospital did anything wrong,the patient's ignorance and a normally crowded ER are the two critical issues.

The ER staff are not all knowing,nor likely to pull a House and diagnose ya from a glance:silly:

Neither of which was overcome by the woman leaving.

45 yrs old and didn't know she was six months pregnant?

That simple fact changes the wait time drastically.

What changes the wait time is that there were (from the story) people there with stuff like chest pains, which naturally come first. But it's odd that people think there's nothing wrong with the hospital allegedly threatening to refuse treatment to people because they tried to get help for this woman.

From your post you imply their evaluation of her consisted of "a glance". For a woman in excruciating pain, over the course of six hours, that would be inexcusable don't you think? Even the hospital itself said so.

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It wasn't the hospital. It sounded like on person was completely in the wrong.

A triage nurse (not the employee who argued/threatened people, but the employee who took the vitals) attempted to do just that...triage. She eventually would have been treated if she stayed. Further, her condition was not life threatening,in that she had vital signs checked and ultimately survived the event regardless. Obviously, the unfortunate outcome is that she didn't mention the pregnancy, or guaranteed she would have increased her urgency in seeing the physician.

Don't state 'the hospital' when one person made a terrible situation worse.

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Don't see that the hospital did anything wrong

Then you're blind. Seriously. The question isn't did the hospital do something wrong, yes they did. That much is obvious. The woman was in such total agony that the other patients realized something was up.

Patients can not be relied on to self diagnose.

Pretending that her knowledge of what was taking place excuses a woman screaming in agony in the wait room is ridiculous. The question that remains to be answered is: is it a policy that needs to be changed or was it an error of the staff in the ER. I'm not saying there needs to be a billion dollar lawsuit or that anyone needs to go to prison. I don't know enough to gauge that. What I do know is a woman in agony showed up at an ER and was in essence turned away when common folk realized the obvious that hospital staff failed to note... and were threatened for their trouble. That alone is a failure. If it's a failure large enough to merit serious consequence, that is unknown.

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But it's odd that people think there's nothing wrong with the hospital allegedly threatening to refuse treatment to people because they tried to get help for this woman.

That's an allegation. I'm not inclined to believe something like that until a full investigation is completed.

If that does turn out to be true, that is completely unacceptable and the person(s) who acted in that manner should be fired.

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What changes the wait time is that there were (from the story) people there with stuff like chest pains, which naturally come first. But it's odd that people think there's nothing wrong with the hospital allegedly threatening to refuse treatment to people because they tried to get help for this woman.

From your post you imply their evaluation of her consisted of "a glance". For a woman in excruciating pain, over the course of six hours, that would be inexcusable don't you think? Even the hospital itself said so.

You mean like the lady behind her(with chest pains) that waited 9 hrs???

Should the stomach pain go before her?...You just said NO;)

I've spent too much time in ER's and what was likely said was "you will be removed if you continue your actions"...But that is just my experience:maniac:.

As well as people tend to exaggerate claims to the press

What did you expect a hospital spokesman to say??

ER's are overloaded and a lot of it is from stupidity like this case.

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Pretending that her knowledge of what was taking place excuses a woman screaming in agony in the wait room is ridiculous. The question that remains to be answered is: is it a policy that needs to be changed or was it an error of the staff in the ER. I'm not saying there needs to be a billion dollar lawsuit or that anyone needs to go to prison. I don't know enough to gauge that. What I do know is a woman in agony showed up at an ER and was in essence turned away when common folk realized the obvious that hospital staff failed to note... and were threatened for their trouble. That alone is a failure. If it's a failure large enough to merit serious consequence, that is unknown.

The problem with "screaming" in agony is that there are many patients who scream in agony in the waiting room, ER bays etc. It's really hard to deal with when you've got drunks, addicts, drama-queens/kings, all acting like their emergency should be top priority. I've seen it happen all the time, even in a non-emergent place like an ortho. office.

There are certain symptoms that are seen first, and unfortunately, with the log jam in many of our metropolitan ER's, even people in severe pain are forced to wait a long time to be seen when there are more serious cases ahead of them not only in the waiting room, but coming in through the ambulance bay and heli-pad (if it's that level of a hospital).

I'm not saying we shouldn't work to address this issue in health care policy, but currently, with our current system, this is the way things are. I don't think physicians and nurses should be held accountable for the current strain on the system.

Additionally, it complicates matters when you have patients who are this far along in their pregnancy and don't realize it :doh:

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Then you're blind. Seriously. The question isn't did the hospital do something wrong, yes they did. That much is obvious. The woman was in such total agony that the other patients realized something was up.

Patients can not be relied on to self diagnose.

Pretending that her knowledge of what was taking place excuses a woman screaming in agony in the wait room is ridiculous. The question that remains to be answered is: is it a policy that needs to be changed or was it an error of the staff in the ER. I'm not saying there needs to be a billion dollar lawsuit or that anyone needs to go to prison. I don't know enough to gauge that. What I do know is a woman in agony showed up at an ER and was in essence turned away when common folk realized the obvious that hospital staff failed to note... and were threatened for their trouble. That alone is a failure. If it's a failure large enough to merit serious consequence, that is unknown.

No, not anymore thank God(the Dr fixed that sight problem)

If patients can't be relied on for diagnosis,then why should others in the waiting room be??

Where do you see screaming in the story...a exaggeration for better effect?

Keeast is correct in that I've seen more wailing and moaning coming from those less serious in many cases.

The situation sucks

Added

six suspended till investigation completed

http://www.suntimes.com/news/nation/1935857,CST-NWS-vegas12.article

hope they don't have to go light on staff in the interim.

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Then they would have deserved it. :doh:

That would make a interesting thread:evilg:

How would you feel if a loved one died from a delay caused by treating a illegal first?

All things being equal...are they really?

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That's an allegation. I'm not inclined to believe something like that until a full investigation is completed.

If that does turn out to be true, that is completely unacceptable and the person(s) who acted in that manner should be fired.

Of course its an allegation. That would be the reason I said "allegedly".

But I was reacting to his flat statement that he didn't see the hospital did anything wrong when, although we don't know the facts yet, there are some serious accusations in play.

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So they were not getting treated fast enough, so they gave up and went home. If that's the case, how is it the hospitals fault?

I had never even thought of this...They gave up and left in 6 hours?

I've sat there 4hours and 4.5 hours in the 2 times i've gone.

IF she had known she was pregnant she would have gotten in about 6-7 minutes.

My wife had a head wound while pregnant and they took us as soon as they heard "pregnant" + trauma...

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