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Schefter: QB production separate Skins from NFC East


gorebd82

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Schecter is right the NFC is a quarterback league and right now JC is at the bottom of the barrel. He needs a lot more weapons around him in order for him to shine. It is the same problem the 49ers are having with Alex Smith. They made a huge investment in Smith and we did the same in acquiring JC. But Smith has a poor winning record this year and so does JC. It is a team game but the quarterbacks get more of the credit when the team wins and more of the blame when their teams lose.

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youre right, jason campbell is the master of comebacks. when hes got the ball inthe 4th quarter i feel completely confident hes gonna lead us to glory. hes done it so many times, i mean IS listed so many impressive performances.

and favre didnt throw the TD to rice.

My take is that he is a young QB with considerable talent, who learned under Gibbs II and Mark "check-down" Brunnell. The worst thing he could ever do was to throw an INT, and now we wonder why he isn't a gunslinger like Favre..... He seems to be just now gaining the confidence and coming into his own, which of course means it is time to let him go....

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JC has a chance to throw for 3500 yards, and 20 tds. He has gotten better every season he has been here. Outside of McNabb, each QB listed sat behind a proven veteran. Plus each front office is stable, unlike ours. Do skins fans really think JC wouldn't be a top 10 qb if Gibbs stayed one more year? Pay attention please. 3500 yards, and 20 TDS. Yes it can and will be done. Then where do you stand? Are we as a fan base really willing to wait and see if a Notre Dame product, or the next hot rookie can become Dan Marino over night? When does the nonesense stop, and the logic begin. Invest in the trenches, control the clock, run the ball to close the game. This is football, not nanotechnology. We are 1 year away. Stay on course, maintain. Winning comes to those that can stand adversity. We have crumbled infront of it.

This might be the best post in EXTREMESKINS history. :helmet:

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According to what is he ranked 14? Passer rating? That's an overrated stat. Our offense is 18th in passing yards and tied for 16th in TDs. That's even after the best game of his career. So even after the best game of his career, we're still middle of the pack. If that doesn't define below average, then what does?

According to more advanced stats, Campbell is not even average. Here's a link to Football Outsiders QB analysis. Now this was last updated a week ago, but Sunday's game from Campbell was an anomaly. Look at his numbers before that game. Should one game really convince us that he's the truth?

http://www.footballoutsiders.com/stats/qb

you cite football outsiders- a source i like and respect very much- as evidence that campbell is below average. for starters, he is actually ranked ahead of mcnabb, for what its worth.

but since you trust that source, did you see some of their other rankings? starting with the O line, they are ranked below the other teams in our division. and its not even really close.

as are our WR's. and RB's.

and our D doesnt look so hot either according to them.

but so many people on here are still saying campbell is the problem.

besided mcnabb, the other QBs in the east are ranked higher, yet they are also playing with much better talent around them.

why dont people get that?

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And you don't ... right?

-I'm curious what my agenda is then? I hope you don't think its to bash Campbell, because you can certainly look through my posting history and see me compliment him time and again... But I guess that fits my supposed agenda. Unlike so many, I am willing to admit both the positives and negatives of Jason Campbell, wish the same could be said for..

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Schefter is right on, but I think he's leaving a part out of the equation that at least in my eyes, is the biggest problem for this team. The offensive line.

When our OL was playing well we had people talking about Campbell as an early season MVP. Our 6-2 start was predicated on a strong running game and good to great offensive line play.

Over the past few weeks Campbell has had a resurgence of sorts and guess what, it just so happens that Buges troops have been playing their guts out and have been able to give Campbell solid protection.

correct. its no coincidence that when the O line plays well, campbell plays well. actually he plays very well.

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correct. its no coincidence that when the O line plays well, campbell plays well. actually he plays very well.

-The same can be said for every QB in the league.. If you have time, obviously your job is going to be easier. He certainly has been improving, but I wouldn't say he's playing "very well," quite yet. He's doing a good job right now, and I really love the chemistry being built between him and the youngsters.

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the saints have scored the following points:

45 - DET

48 - PHI

27 - BUF

24 - NYJ

48 - NYG

46 - MIA

35 - ATL

30 - CAR

28 - STL

38 - TAM

38 - NWE

33 - WSH

only 4 teams allowed less points against the saints than we did this year. by your rationale, every defense in the league has let their team down by playing the saints.

so theres two scenarios:

1. every defense in the league sucks

2. the saints have one of the best offenses (if not THE best offense) of all time.

they are currently on pace to tie the patriots single season record of 589 points. they are at 440 points, pats record was 589. 38 points a game (and theyre averaging 37) gets them over.

our defense isnt bad. the saints offense is literally just that good.

lets turn that argument around- have you checked how many teams have scored 30 against the saints D?

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My take is that he is a young QB with considerable talent, who learned under Gibbs II and Mark "check-down" Brunnell. The worst thing he could ever do was to throw an INT, and now we wonder why he isn't a gunslinger like Favre..... He seems to be just now gaining the confidence and coming into his own, which of course means it is time to let him go....

he'll be 28 in a few weeks. hes not young at all.

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lets turn that argument around- have you checked how many teams have scored 30 against the saints D?

-Very good point!!

-Only the Phins scored more than us against the Saints. This leads me to believe, teams with a good rushing attack can gash that D, and in addition keep Brees on the side-line. This prevents there explosive offense from making the game out of reach, and forces there defense to play both the run/pass.. Unlike most games, when the Saints take a huge lead and force the opposition into must throw situations.. Just a theory though.

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-The same can be said for every QB in the league.. If you have time, obviously your job is going to be easier. He certainly has been improving, but I wouldn't say he's playing "very well," quite yet. He's doing a good job right now, and I really love the chemistry being built between him and the youngsters.

if thats the case, the why do we criticize campbell? did you see where his O line is ranked according to a respected source?

how do you expect him to play given the protection and weapons or lackthereof throughout most of the year? like a pro bowler?

he has by far the worst O line in the division. he has had the worst running game and WR's in the division this year.

yet we expect him to be putting up better #'s than Romo sits to pee, manning, and mcnabb.

why?

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if thats the case, the why do we criticize campbell? did you see where his O line is ranked according to a respected source?

-Because I have seen him play with a good o-line as well.. He's been here for quite some time. My beefs with him are the his wildly inconsistent, and he makes mistakes at the most crucial moments in the game.

-EDIT... Have you seen where GB's o-line ranks in pass pro on football outsiders?

how do you expect him to play given the protection and weapons or lackthereof throughout most of the year? like a pro bowler?

-no.. have I said that somewhere to lead you to believe it?

he has by far the worst O line in the division. he has had the worst running game and WR's in the division this year.

-With the emergence of DT, I would hardly say he has the worst receiving core in the division.. The o-line, is certainly the worst though, which directly relates to the troubles in the running game.

yet we expect him to be putting up better #'s than Romo sits to pee, manning, and mcnabb.

why?

-Who's expecting him to put up better #'s than three pro-bowlers?

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-Because I have seen him play with a good o-line as well.. He's been here for quite some time. My beefs with him are the his wildly inconsistent, and he makes mistakes at the most crucial moments in the game.

when the line was outstanding and the team was 6-2, he wasnt making alot of mistakes. i'm with you that things like that INT last week at the end of the game are not good. but i think he is overall consistent with protection. i should add that i think he is getting better and adapting to his line. he is growing as a QB- not regressing as many would do in his situation. i think he gets credit for that.

-no.. have I said that somewhere to lead you to believe it?

that was directed at the critics in general and not you. i phrased that incorrectly.

-With the emergence of DT, I would hardly say he has the worst receiving core in the division.. The o-line, is certainly the worst though, which directly relates to the troubles in the running game.

one good game from a young WR doesnt change my point. overall this year, our WR's, line and RB's are the worst in the division. but i agree that DT and davis are coming around and hopefully that will change.

-Who's expecting him to put up better #'s than three pro-bowlers?

seems to me that alot of people on this board are. given that the other QB's all have better talent around them, i cant understand why.

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-I'm curious what my agenda is then? I hope you don't think its to bash Campbell, because you can certainly look through my posting history and see me compliment him time and again... But I guess that fits my supposed agenda. Unlike so many, I am willing to admit both the positives and negatives of Jason Campbell, wish the same could be said for..

Let's be honest...

You point out the flaws and good things Campbell does just like I do.

However it's clear that you don't like Campbell, and I do like Campbell.

It's clear that I have an agenda to defend Campbell, and you have an agenda to dislike Campbell.

Just because I'm not on the level of a tr1, and you're not on the level of a SoCalSkins... doesn't mean we don't have or that we dont demonstrate agendas.

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Let's be honest...

You point out the flaws and good things Campbell does just like I do.

However it's clear that you don't like Campbell, and I do like Campbell.

It's clear that I have an agenda to defend Campbell, and you have an agenda to dislike Campbell.

Just because I'm not on the level of a tr1, and you're not on the level of a SoCalSkins... doesn't mean we don't have or that we dont demonstrate agendas.

-I disagree.. Unless your considering our agenda as "trying to be as objective as possible when discussing Campbell," which truly isn't an agenda at all.. I don't dislike Campbell, I in fact defended his worst pre-season outing, and didn't rave about his best preseason outing, because I believed he made all the correct decisions in his poor outing, and I believed his stats were largely inflated due to a single play in his best outing. I try to remain objective, and in the end Campbell hasn't been all that great during his time here, so yes it comes out somewhat negatively.

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Given the circumstances, Campbell is doing a good job with this team. I would bet my last dollar if you throw Romo sits to pee or Eli on this team, that they would perform A LOT worse than Campbell.

McNabb is the exception because he's worked with poor lines in his early years and even though his mobility has decreased, he's still very good at avoiding sacks and pressure.

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when the line was outstanding and the team was 6-2, he wasnt making alot of mistakes. i'm with you that things like that INT last week at the end of the game are not good. but i think he is overall consistent with protection. i should add that i think he is getting better and adapting to his line. he is growing as a QB- not regressing as many would do in his situation. i think he gets credit for that.

-The line has been good through points of his career beyond that 6-2 stretch, and I for one was not as overly impressed as so many are at his performance during that 6-2 stretch. I'm not saying he played poorly by any means, but I am just not as impressed as others by his performance.

-I completely agree he is getting better, and learning to adapt to his situation. I can remember earlier this season screaming at the TV, "how does everyone but Campbell know he doesn't have a good o-line." Maybe part of it was him trying to hold on to the ball to make a play, but countless times he seemed to go through his dropback and just stand there. He's gotten much better at this in recent weeks.

that was directed at the critics in general and not you. i phrased that incorrectly.

-No worries it happens.

one good game from a young WR doesnt change my point. overall this year, our WR's, line and RB's are the worst in the division. but i agree that DT and davis are coming around and hopefully that will change.

-One good game doesn't change your point your right.. But I'm not just looking at the statistics from that game, I'm looking at the point proven.. If our o-line gives JC time to get plays downfield, DT will make the plays when given an opportunity.. Up until the past few weeks he really hasn't been given an opportunity, so how could we honestly judge him?

seems to me that alot of people on this board are. given that the other QB's all have better talent around them, i cant understand why.

-I for one am not.. I also don't believe these QB's have as much talent surrounding them as you seem to believe.

PHI-Westbrook(I am Philly's offense) has fallen off the map, and McCoy hasn't exactly impressed. Jackson is pretty awesome, but Maclin has been pretty much what you expect from a rookie WR.. There next best receiver is Jason Avant.

NYG-There o-line performance has really gone down this season and it has been evident in both there rushing attack and Eli's performance.. As far as there receivers go, if Mario Manningham were here, fans would be in an outrage that he isn't tall enough.. Yet Eli has gotten it done with him and other short receivers.

DAL-Roy Williams simply isn't the #1 talent they thought he was.. Miles Austin is good, but like Santana not a true #1 because he can't beat a double team.. There rushing attack has been pretty solid, but frequently there missing one of there top 2 backs.

-Not saying we have more talent than these teams, but you honestly think there supporting casts are that much better than ours

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Given the circumstances, Campbell is doing a good job with this team. I would bet my last dollar if you throw Romo sits to pee or Eli on this team, that they would perform A LOT worse than Campbell.

McNabb is the exception because he's worked with poor lines in his early years and even though his mobility has decreased, he's still very good at avoiding sacks and pressure.

-I'll give you Eli, but Romo sits to pee evades sacks on a pretty regular basis.. He's got an ability to escape the pocket and make a big play down field that Jason lacks.

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];7089181']It's a shame the Raiders didn't draft Calvin Johnson instead of Russell. That could have been a good offense- CJ' date=' DHB, Murphy, Schillens, McFadden, Fargas, and Miller would all put up good numbers.

JC has looked good recently. In all honesty, he's done everything a good QB needs to do except one. I sincerely believe that 100% of ES would support JC if he could just do one thing-win. In all his time in DC he's never been a winner except for the first half of a strange season. Putting us in position to win isn't enough anymore Jason.[/quote']

Well said.

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Well Jason will have is chance this week. We go to the bay. The way Jason picked apart the D in the last game gives us hope in this game. Him and Grad the sidearm wonder clutch man should be fun to watch, How do you guys see this game for Jason. My prediction is he will throw for about 225 and 1 TD and turn the ball over 2 times either by INTs or fumbles. Our D will come though for us and we get a win by 7.

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If Sherm, Levi Jones, and Williams @ RG were here since Game 1, we'd be in playoff contention right now.

I would probably agree...

I watched something on TV that said since Sherm has taken over as the primary play caller, Campbell has been on pace to throw for 4000 yards and 30 TD's in a 16 game season at the pace he's been at.

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So freaking ridiculous....

You asked and he provided, and now you discount them with all kinds of asides: "We ran the ball in that dirve, the passes were not bombs, Campbell did not play defense and stop the other team from scoring back, We were ahead most of the game so even though the drive won the game I won't count it...."

In your spirit: I won't count the Favre comeback with SF because he just chucked the ball and Sydney Rice made a great diving catch, and he had Peterson running wild, and if his OL didn't block for him he wouldn't have even made it to the last play, and if J Allen wasn't a beast they would have been down by 14 and it wouldn't have mattered.... blah, blah, blah.....

The boyz won't let facts get in the way of their agenda.

Nice analogy with Favre vs. SF.

:applause:

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