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Cut Big Daddy?


Even Madder

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I don't think the Skins have any leverage in their negotiations with BDW's agent, because everyone knows they're not gonna cut him. They have no replacement, and he's the best player on a sorry DL.

But... imagine this: everyone knows the Skins aren't going to the Superbowl this year. What if they cut BDW and used the money to resign Champ, knowing that it means that they'll struggle even more this year? It would probably cost them a win or two to do it, but what's the difference between 9-7 and 7-9 anyway?

The result would be another hard-to-watch season, but the Skins would be in great cap shape. BDW makes about $4m a year for the next few years, but his signing bonuses weren't that large -- he restructured it a couple times -- so the cap hit for dumping him wouldn't be that painful.

It would have another benefit, which I think would be huge for a young club like the Skins: It would send a message. It would say that no matter who you are, if you're lazy and not committed to the team -- even in the offseason -- the Skins don't need you.

The team learns a lot from BDW and Bruce. BDW doesn't show up for offseason conditioning even though he's rehabbing an injury. What do you think that says to the rest of the team? And Bruce -- he gets a hangnail as soon as training camp starts. The Skins need leaders, and these guys are the opposite.

So I say cut him.

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EM, you bring up some good points however I have to take exception with your statement "What's the difference between 9-7 and 7-9?" Say that the FO followed your advice and we went 7-9 this year. First, we are guaranteed to miss the playoffs whereas if we had won just 2 more games we might have pulled a wild card. Second, it creates two losing years in a row under Spurrier and I know that both Snyder and Spurrier aren't patient enough to deal with that. Third, it makes it look as though our offseason additions were for nothing and brings down the morale of the both the team and the front office. Finally, it would seem to the players that the FO has no faith in the team to make it to the Super Bowl and send a clear message that they are quitting even before the season starts which would be detrimental to the team and make it easier for everybody to quit both this year and maybe in the future, once you quit it becomes easier every time.

So I say that we keep him, we have to.

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He's vastly overpaid, he's unmotivated, he sets a poor example for other players, he has an amazing ability to disappear in big games, he's coming off an injury, and he's nothing more than a space-clogging fat ass in the middle.

But he's still the best DT we've got.

Decisions like this are always tough. He's a proven player who's capable of tying up blockers in the middle, which the Skins will need with all those stud LBs flying around behind him. But he's also a drag on the team because he's a me-first kind of guy who can't be bothered to show up to voluntary workouts even though the Skins have a new defensive coach, a new DT playing next to him, and a new DE.

Hard to let him go. I'd do it, but there's no way the Skins will do it.

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Rdskins56, you're right that if they cut him and said, "Oh well we'll go 7-9 and try again next year" that would be team suicide. It would be horrible for morale.

But while I think there's a pretty good chance that cutting BDW would cost the Skins a game or two, there's an equal chance that the Skins might get better without him. Other players might step up -- players with a motor, with motivation -- and the Skins might get more out of their DL than they do with Big Daddy.

And that would be great for morale. It would say to the team "Work hard and you'll get your chance." Saying that now is a joke. BDW doesn't work hard. Smith doesn't work hard (at least not in the offseason). Imagine if the Skins cut Big Daddy and resign Champ and still make the playoffs! Then you'd have a team that clearly understands that any players -- even a big name big contract so-called star -- better work hard or hit the road. That would be great for the future. The knock on this team dating back to the first day Norv arrived is that they have no heart. BDW is one of those no-heart guys. The Skins can live without him.

Still, I don't think he's going anywhere. His agent will laugh at requests to cut his salary without a new SB, and the Skins don't have any leverage.

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EM, I would love to cut him. I have heard about one good thing about his work ethic since he has been here and that was probably a rumor. I wish that we had even one promising DT that we could use to cut him but I just don't think that Cowsette or Haley are at his level yet. Who knows, maybe somebody that isn't available at the moment will be available soon. Somebody like Daryl Gardener would be sweet. I would love for one of them to step it up this year and make it possible to not have to rely on him anymore. I guess that we'll wait and see. If they don't then maybe we will buck the current trend and actually draft a defensive lineman on the first day of the draft.

Anyhow, how about this scenario. We cut BDW and move Wynn to DT full time sort of like we did with Kenard Lang. We start Upshaw at RE and let Smith, Zellner and Jackson battle it out for the other side. While it might kill our depth at DT if somebody got hurt, we would still have Haley and Cowsette to work into the rotation. We might even be able to pick up a servicable DT to add to the rotation as time goes on. Does anybody know how Jackson's injury is progressing? I would prefer this method, we could resign Champ and get rid of yet another Turner cancer.

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not using the draft the past 3 seasons to address the age and depth issues on the DL meant that we were going to be hostage to Bruce Smith and Dan Wilkinson.

the Redskins are one of the few teams in the NFL that has not selected a DL with one of its top 2 selections since 1997. Indeed the Skins may be the ONLY team not to do so.

it's agonizing to see how much has been spent on trades and in free agency to acquire capable DL, when in the past we were able to draft players like Mann and Manley with mid round picks and watch them turn into pro bowlers.

Meanwhile all we have had is ONE pro bowl berth for Marco Coleman in 2000 and he limped home with only 2 sacks in his last 6 games after getting 10 in his first 10 games.

Together we have spent a bundle of money and picks on guys like Gilbert, Stubby, Wilkinson and Smith and the returns for the organization have been less than hoped for.

And THAT has to be the understatement of the century :)

Last year 8 of 10 selections were for the offense, this year all three picks were for the offense. In 2001 under Marty our top pick was a wide receiver.

In 2004 we have to stop the merry go round and address the DL in earnest.

I understand you can't fix everything at once, and to be fair Spurrier wasn't the one who brought Wilkinson or Bruce or Stubby to the Redskins.

Most of the decisions to bring in name talent on the DL were made by Charley Casserly, a point a lot of writers seem to forget when looking at the Skins cap situations with Stubby and #95 the past couple of years.

Casserly paid these two players as if they were the best DTs in the NFC and yet neither ever made a pro bowl with the team.

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Though it would be nice to be able to stick it BDW, it's just too risky at this point. Without cutting him, I think we'll still be able to sign Champ next year b/c all we'll have to do is draft a few Dlinemen, not expecting much of a free gaent splash next year, maybe a safety, or a tight end, but that's it.

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I see the team's line of thinking on this one...

They currently have $0 in dead money on the 2004 cap, having reconciled all their cap problems this year. If BDW is cut now, he'd count $6.933 million in dead money in 2004.

Champ is the only major free agent to be re-signed. Unless one of our other UFAs or RFAs have a monster year, they will all be resigned or replaced for near the league minimum. Bruce would be in his final year and, when cut, would count $3.584 million in dead money if he meets all of his incentives in 2003. That brings the dead money total to $10.517 million.

Now aside from LaVar's $6.72 million base, Samuels's $5.132 million base, and Trotter's $2.7 million base, there will be 10 players making between $1-2 million in base salary and cap numbers in the $1.5-$2.5 million range. With the possible exception of Armstead, none of these 10 are overpaid and would be in danger of becoming cap casualties. And LaVar, Samuels, and Trotter sure as hell won't be going anywhere.

$10.517 million isn't too bad for a dead money figure, especially if you consider the 2004 cap going up over this year's number.

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Em,

First of all i don't Know the Skins aren't going to the SB. You never know what could happen, you would of said that about the Rams awhile ago they were 4-12.

Second i agree with cutting him, but he is way over hyped. You could literally put anyone there and they could manage 17 tackles. Plus he never gets doubled teamed, and he is a distraction. We need to set an example by cutting his sorry fat ass. Things seem to work themsleves out, so I am sure we can find someone to fill the hole. Plus we signed Haiely for pretty big bucks, so he needs to earn it. But i do agree with saving money to sign Champ.

So Big Daddy, Don't let the door hit ya on the way out!!

And on the note of examples, we all know what we got when we signed B.Smith. He jsut wants to break the sack record, and we just want someone to apply persure, so he dosen't have to be a leader. L.Arrington, Trotter, Jansen are other leaders that we have.

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I think the key here is to identify more clearly BDW's role on the DL. I've read people talk about him absorbing two blockers, which he has rarely done in the past, yet his role this year is that of Daryl Gardener's last year. Penetrate/Disrupt/Collapse the pocket. Noble will be holding up the blockers this year, like he's done virtually every year he's been in the league. It's also why you haven't heard alot from Noble to this point in his career, and why BDW was invisible last year. It's grunt work, sacrificing individual stats for team concept. Unfortunately, BDW didn't take to kindly to the assignment last year.... why Lewis didn't care for him.... and why BDW balloned to just a shade under 400lbs.

But this year, BDW is supposed to be lighter and motivated because his role has changed.... he's the attacker instead of the attackee. I think a 315lb. BDW can collapse the pocket and penetrate sufficiently to be a problem for opposing offenses.

I think they should weigh BDW on Sat. night, see if he is indeed a svelte 315lb and in good shape. If he is... pin his ears back and send him towards the backfield. If he isn't, cut him and announce to the team that salary stealers intent on resting on their laurels (like he had any) are no longer tolerated in the Redskin organization. That will certainly get the attention of D. Cowsette, B Jackson, J. Haley, and J. Sayler.

hey....anyone realize that Jace Sayler #90 is 6'5" and 314lbs. on the Redskins.com roster. Can that guy not at least hold his own in the trenches? Alot to ask from a rookie... but... as a reserve in the rotation?

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I still find it incongruous that the front office is talking about releasing a player at a position of relative weakness.

If the team had spent a #2 pick on a young DT then the Skins would be in perfect shape to work with Wilkinson and convince him to take a more modest paycheck, given that he would be looking at the vet minimum elsewhere.

As it is, Wilkinson knows the Skins don't have anyone else and there is no one else available in FA the team can bring in.

Chester McGlockton was the best of the available players before the Jets snapped him up, and ole Chester has an even longer record of underachieving and being an attitude case than Wilkinson has.

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Another possibility: Tell him, look, we want you back big guy, no hard feelings, but your salary is just too much given your performance last year. Either you agree to chop, say, 500K off your $3.5 million salary now or we will cut you; if we cut you, we will immediately put an offer on the table for, say, $2.5 million -- i.e., $1 million less than you're getting from us now, and $1 million more than you'll likely get from anyone else.

If we said we'd do it, then if necessary did it, we would have leverage, b/c for him to go somewhere else, he'd have to agree to take a big paycut. (We would also have some risk, b/c he just might take the paycut, and b/c who knows what some desperate team might offer -- but not all that much risk, b/c it would be in his interest to agree to the salary reduction before being cut, and if he played chicken and got cut, it would still be to his advantage to resign with us at 2.5M.)

Close call, but I think we keep him regardless, b/c we're already too vulnerable at DL; any other position, I'd say cut him unless he agrees to go down to at least near market value.

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You know, I wonder if anyone really has watched BDW the last few years. I am reading alot of the same crap over and over again. I watch these games and see a guy who does have a motor but little else around him. Then, when the parts appeared to be around him, we changed his responsiblities.

Last years defense changed everyone around a bit and that took some getting used too. Lets see what Coach Edwards has in mind and see how the guys perform.

In some ways, I think everyones "Gardener Goggles" are still on.

BDW is a solid DT who has been there every game for us. You fix things when you can IMO. Right now, we solved our problem on the offense. Lets see how the defense goes this year and then start hacking away at players who don't work out.

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exactly my feeling Utah.

Wilkinson is a solid player. Yes, his contract dollars are out of whack with what he delivers on a game by game basis but that was the Redskins fault in overpaying him :)

He is the best DT we have and there are no prospects available to upgrade the spot until next offseason, unless a surprise move is made by another team to release a productive player.

And that is very unlikely.

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When the Skins cut Davis, it was apparent they had a clear cut plan in how to replace him. With training camp starting, if Big Daddy was cut today, I am not sure that the team officials would have any type of plan to adequately replace him......So I dunno, I guess file me under UNDECIDED.

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Move Wynn to LT and start Zellner at LE. We would however risk losing all of 17 tackles (woooooooo) this year.

It's time to rid this team of the biggest underachieving waste of potential we have had in a long while. To pay him that $ and risk losing good players in the coming seasons would be criminal.

If he comes into camp with half his big butt and twice the heart he's had in the past few years ... I might take it all back ... maybe ...

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Wynn wouldnt be replacing the 17 tackles registered by BDW.

That is what noble is doing.

Wynn would be playing the attack DT an so he would be replacing the numbers registered by Gardener.

But if it came to to keeping BDW at the risk of Champ escaping you have to cut BDW.

And I thought we would gain cap space in 2k4 because S Davis and d green money would be cleared off the cap.

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let me get this straight.

you want to move Wynn and replace him at LDE with Peppi Zellner, a player that was the #4 DE in Dallas last season on a team where the need to upgrade along the DL remains a goal for Parcells? :)

either you know something about Zellner that the Dallas staff and the Skins staff don't know to this point or you are projecting skills and abilities onto a player that has yet to demonstrate those.

Zellner by is bio is still a raw player going into his fourth season. He doesn't play with good technique and is not good at taking the edge against the run. Meanwhile, he has potential as a pass rusher but has not come through on that end either to this point.

I don't see how these moves are going to improve the defense. All we do there is basically lose depth and gain cap room during a period in which no one of interest is available to help the club.

As I have posted before, I have been in favor of drafting DL help the past 3 drafts but the FO has gone in another direction each time, whether under Marty or under Mendes or Cerrato.

If we had taken a young DT at #2 last year or in 2001 we might have been able to cut Wilkinson and save some dollars against 2004.

But how is that possible when the only DL taken the past 2 years was at #7 last year with the 250th pick? :)

Clearly, there was no plan to replace #95 at DT with another capable candidate and he and his agent know this.

To me the team has no leverage. Wilkinson knows he is going to be looking for another job in 2004 so he is not going to do the Redskins any favors.

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One misconception here is that Wilkinson is adept at taking doubles. He's not. In fact, he's HORRIBLE at that. He plays too high and can get moved. He's not a lateral player so he's not going to be the double guy. He is a big boy with nice burst off the ball who gets on the shoulder of an offensive lineman when he's going well and he is able to make good, consistent penetration with those attributes. He's NOT the double team guy. Stubblefield was when he was here. Lang was in 2001. Gardener was last year. Noble will be this year.

Another thing to consider is we save nothing by cutting Wilkinson this year and, in fact, we actually lose something. If Buddha is correct and we'd have a $6.9 million cap hit for him should we cut him now, that actually eats into his $4.5 million base number for next year.

My thinking is Wilkinson does need to surrender dollars we owe him or be cut, but that will be NEXT year when we would cut him after July 1 and save a couple of million (base minus prorated two-year dead bonus acceleration). You're already saving several million cutting Smith.

The Redskins aren't going to go into free agency next year looking for much if anything. We're almost certainly going to go with a straight draft to get players we need to fill in around what we have. What cutting Wilkinson would do this year is open up $3.5 million or so that you could pay to Champ in the form of a larger than normal base salary in year one. You could then push his year three value down which will extend the life of the contract.

In the end though the only "strength" one can say our defensive line has is that it is somewhat deep. Losing Wilkinson eats into that and I think if the offense plays well enough we'll need all the extra defensive line help we can get to go as far as we can. I don't like tanking for any reason.

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also complicating things is Haley's status with the NFL. If he is found guilty on the aggravated DUI charge he could be suspended for the first couple of games by Tagliabue. And ole Paul hasn't done the Skins any favors in recent years :)

is anyone really comfortable with having Cowsette being the top reserve or even a starting DT for us in case someone goes down?

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