WP DCSportsBog - Merril Hoge Breaks Down the Skins

[THUNDERDOME]

WP DCSportsBog - Merril Hoge Breaks Down the Skins

http://voices.washingtonpost.com/dcs...e_sk.html#more

With all the questions about whether the Skins have too much talent to be playing like this, or are actually playing up to their talent level, I figured I should ask some people who actually spend their time breaking down game tape. First up: ESPN analyst Merril Hoge. I told him that some fans were wondering whether this team actually has sufficient talent.

"I think something that isn't always understood by the fan is everyone in football has talent," Hoge said. "Sure, you can grade some teams' talent level higher than others, but still, everyone in the NFL has good, elite talent. Now, are you maximizing that talent and using it in the best ways?"

His answer for the Redskins? No. Not just yet, or at least, not on offense.

"You have a philosophy, a West Coast philosophy, and nobody fits that mold," said Hoge, who comprehensively reviewed the Tampa game on tape. "I don't think they try to take advantage of their strengths. It's like they've got a philosophy and they want to run it regardless. Shoot, I'd run the ball, run a lot of run action, stack receivers, bunch 'em coming off the line. I'd use a different philosophy to take advantage of their strengths. The West Coast is not their strength. That doesn't mean you can't do it some of the time, it just shouldn't be your staple....That, to me, is the biggest way to fail as a coach. Just watch the Tampa game. They did nothing to help their guys. The quarterback has nowhere to throw the ball, so then he gets sacked and looks like an idiot."

Specifically, Hoge said the Bucs--once famous for the Tampa-2 zone--were running man concept stuff in their secondary for the majority of the game. He said the Redskins were countering with pass routes that would be most effective against zone schemes. He cited one 3rd-and-10 play in which the Skins ran three curl independent curl routes.

"Man, you're never gonna win a curl route against man, ever," Hoge said. "Give 'em an option route. Stack your receivers. Run them across the field. You just can't run zone concept stuff and think you're gonna win [those battles]. You're not."

continue reading here......

This was a good read.

Maybe Sherm can bring some sort of insight like this to Zorn.

[More Complete]

"The great demise for any coach is when he's unwilling to adapt his philosophy to the strengths of his personnel," Hoge said. "I don't care what level you're at, eventually you have to evaluate the strength of your personnel and adjust your philosophy to those strengths."

Square peg. Round hole.

[Dan T.]

And who dictated that the team should adapt a West Coast-style offense? Hmmm...

[Spartacus87]

I'm convinced our WRs run dumb routes most of the time.

Does that excuse some of Campbell's decision making? No, not at all, because he needs to read defenses better and anticipate breaks earlier.

But I don't think our WRs help the offense too much. I think it was Art who alluded to this in his coverage of the Lions game, where we weren't running any routes that cleared out zones or were set up to specifically get a certain guy or two open on a play.

And of course, when we're running three separate curl routes on 3rd down against man coverage, and other similar stupid plays, that further boosts the idea that Devin Thomas and Malcolm Kelly are busts when they're not even being used correctly no matter their experience level.

[Braxford]

I totally agree with Hodge, and I know a lot of us here at ES have been saying this. The Skins don't have the players for WCO. That is the problem with Danny being in charge of things. A good owner would hire a good GM to hire a coach who would play to the strengths of the team. The Skins were playoff caliber with these same players the past couple of years, yeah they are older now but I mean come on. You have to build your scheme around your players. Players make the plays that win the games, the X and O's just give them direction.

[Supreme Wu]

Thats a really great posting - I thanked him in the comments because we need a lot more of this type of insight and a lot less of the BS drama that means nothing

[THUNDERDOME]

I hope from an outside view that this is the kind of info Sherm can come in and help the offense with.

[Fred Jones]

This just tells me Zorn will not be around next year. Not taking advantage of the skills of your players and not calling plays to not only maximize their talent, but not counter what the defense is trying to do will get you canned.

[darrelgreenie]

WP DCSportsBog - Merril Hoge Breaks Down the Skins

http://voices.washingtonpost.com/dcs...e_sk.html#more

They did nothing to help their guys. The quarterback has nowhere to throw the ball, so then he gets sacked and looks like an idiot."

Specifically, Hoge said the Bucs--once famous for the Tampa-2 zone--were running man concept stuff in their secondary for the majority of the game. He said the Redskins were countering with pass routes that would be most effective against zone schemes. He cited one 3rd-and-10 play in which the Skins ran three curl independent curl routes.

"Man, you're never gonna win a curl route against man, ever," Hoge said. "Give 'em an option route. Stack your receivers. Run them across the field. You just can't run zone concept stuff and think you're gonna win [those battles]. You're not."

Good article, it confirms some of my thoughts about the offense scheme dating back to last year.

Same pass routes concepts, slighty improved OL and the same receivers.

Something has to change to get different results, hopefully Sherm arrival well spark some change?

[terrifNick21]

Hoge for coach!

[Vooskin]

Great article and I don't say that very often. And don't care much for Merril Hoge either but the article was great.

[mistertim]

Good article, it confirms some of my thoughts about the offense scheme dating back to last year.

Same pass routes concepts, slighty improved OL and the same receivers.

Something has to change to get different results, hopefully Sherm arrival well spark some change?

What I'd like to see is Sherm up in the box as OC. The guy obviously knows his stuff. From up there it is also easier to get a feel for exactly what the other team is doing scheme-wise. If Zorn wants to keep calling plays, fine. But let Sherm in on the game planning and put up him up there and have him in Zorn's ear recommending plays and packages that will utilize what we have and take advantage of the holes in whatever scheme the defense seems to be running.

Also...3 curl routes on 3rd and 10 against man coverage? :doh:

[bulldog]

What is so ironic is that Joe Gibbs drafted Campbell specifically to play in the type of offensive system that Hoge describes

No one at the time of his drafting pointed to the 6'4 and 230 Campbell fitting into the NFL as a passer in a system populated with nimble, shorter passers with a quicker release like the WCO.

This guy had 'play action passer' written all over him.

As far as Kelly and Thomas go, I think there are two factors. One is as Hoge described in that neither player has proven in practice to be the 'solution' at WR as of yet.

The other is Jim Zorn's apparent impatience to bring along any younger players and put up with the occasional blown assignment to gain growth and experience.

Sure Thomas and Kelly are going to make some mistakes. But for guys that are 23-24 years old that is ALLOWED.

Zorn is now so risk averse he only calls plays for Cooley and Moss and then wonders why the offense bogs down when teams catch on that Kelly and the other offensive skill players are merely decoys.

[whatmeworry]

I'm wondering what all this talk about us having a WCO even comes from. I haven't seen it. Looks identical to the Gibbs offense. In fact Gibbs, in his first stint, had what resembled a wCO more than what we have now.

[Spartacus87]

What I'd like to see is Sherm up in the box as OC. The guy obviously knows his stuff. From up there it is also easier to get a feel for exactly what the other team is doing scheme-wise. If Zorn wants to keep calling plays, fine. But let Sherm in on the game planning and put up him up there and have him in Zorn's ear recommending plays and packages that will utilize what we have and take advantage of the holes in whatever scheme the defense seems to be running.

I'm pretty sure I read in an article somewhere that Lewis would be up in the box looking down on the field during games.

At least for the time being, while he learns our schemes/personnel.

[chipwhich]

Zorn is now so risk averse he only calls plays for Cooley and Moss and then wonders why the offense bogs down when teams catch on that Kelly and the other offensive skill players are merely decoys.

There is a MAJOR flaw in this theory.

What you ask?

Uh if it's so safe to go with the ol standbys then you would be getting better scoring with the ol standbys.

At some point it's risk averse to not play the youngsters when you can't even get 20 points with the guys who aren't a "risk".

Really.

Randel El is a "safe" punt returner meanwhile he is one of the worst in the league and a waste at that position....meanwhile your team is performing horribly. At some point these risk averse decisions are riskier than a change.

Even Zorn has to know what he is doing is risky.

[Toadslayer]

You have to have a WCO Quarterback to run the WCO. Why do you think they tried to get rid of Campbell? You need a quick, snappy guy with alot of "fire in his belly".

[G.A.C.O.L.B.]

Thats a really great posting - I thanked him in the comments because we need a lot more of this type of insight and a lot less of the BS drama that means nothing

Steinberg is the man.

[Oldfan]

Okay, since no one else is stepping up to do it, I'll play the Devil's Advocate for the Skins position

1) Merrill Hoge has never coached. No team has ever asked him to coach.

2)Even with the terrible first half against the Bucs, and the defense allowing too many long clock eating drives, the passing game has accumulated more yardage per game than any in the Gibbs era.

3) Thomas, Kelly, Davis and Cooley fit the WCO, but the first three are still learning.

4) I've never heard Hoge's theory on curl routes from anyone else before. It doesn't make sense. Against Man coverage, the receivers are supposed to beat their man. If the DB is sold on the go route first, and the pass is timed up properly, curl routes can be completed against man coverage. It's a bread and butter route for the Colts.

5) Receivers WERE getting open against the Bucs. Jason played his worst game as a Redskin for three quarters.

6) The Bucs game was the offense's worst game. If you know a lot about football, then you should know that you can't study one game and make a sound analysis about scheme.

7) The WCO is the ideal answer for the pass protection problem of our O line if you still want to run and pass with some balance. What scheme would he suggest? What scheme would any of you agreeing with Hoge suggest?

[Oldfan]

What is so ironic is that Joe Gibbs drafted Campbell specifically to play in the type of offensive system that Hoge describes

Since the Rams went WCO, I think the only team left using the Coryell scheme is Norv's Chargers. Not many teams have the personnel to run it effectively in today's NFL.

Jason Campbell had to be made quicker in every respect or he wouldn't fit anyone's scheme in today's game.

Zorn is now so risk averse he only calls plays for Cooley and Moss and then wonders why the offense bogs down when teams catch on that Kelly and the other offensive skill players are merely decoys.

It's rare that coaches call plays for specific personnel. Moss is the only player we have who rates that attention. Cooley benefits from the coverage given to the WRs. He finds the soft spot in the zone and he's easy to spot in the middle when Jason steps up in the pocket. Those plays aren't called specifically for him.

His fourth down calls argue against Z being "risk averse."

[redskins55]

Okay, since no one else is stepping up to do it, I'll play the Devil's Advocate for the Skins position

4) I've never heard Hoge's theory on curl routes from anyone else before. It doesn't make sense. Against Man coverage, the receivers are supposed to beat their man. If the DB is sold on the go route first, and the pass is timed up properly, curl routes can be completed against man coverage. It's a bread and butter route for the Colts.

5) Receivers WERE getting open against the Bucs. Jason played his worst game as a Redskin for three quarters.

#4. This is football 101.. You may be able to convert on some plays in man coverage with short curl routes and digs, but overall the success rate is very low! WCO is geared to take advantage of matchups in the backfield against slower linebackers and getting receivers into space. If we arn't winning matchups then we have to adjust our offensive philosophy.

#5. I dont know what game you were watching but our receivers were not getting open. There was a few plays where someone was clearly open and we missed but it was late in the game and it wasn't many times. Even Fox showed our receivers and their inability to get open several times. They highlighted the fact that our receivers dont win their matchups and Campbell had noone to throw to which is the reason he just started to take off and run. We need to put our players in position to win matchups and that causes for switching up the philosophy to suit our strengths like Hodge mentioned

[Oldfan]

[#4. This is football 101..

Just make your point. Don't give me crap.

You may be able to convert on some plays in man coverage with short curl routes and digs, but overall the success rate is very low!

The success rate on any play depends on how well it is executed. There is nothing about the curl route itself that argues for its use in specific schemes.

WCO is geared to take advantage of matchups in the backfield against slower linebackers and getting receivers into space. If we arn't winning matchups then we have to adjust our offensive philosophy.

What scheme will work against man coverage if the receivers can't win their matchups? The Wishbone?

What scheme would you suggest for the Redskins base offense?

[zCommander]

What scheme would you suggest for the Redskins base offense?

Here is a non-analytical answer: Call your scheme Curly, Manny, or Moe for all I care as long as you are scoring points! :cool:

[Skinsinparadise]

I was at the Tampa game.

And yeah JC played like crap in the first half. But, I have been hearing from the JC haters how JC is blind as a bat and WR's are open all the time. What really struck me in that game was how Moss is shut down well for the most part with a double team, and the young WR's have a really hard time getting separation.

I didn't find WR's open all the time. Though it didn't per se strike me scheme related, but that the Skins young Wr's can be bullied and slowed down around the line of scrimmage. The one guy who looked like a pure stud is Cooley, Cooley seemed to almost always find separation.

When you got only one pass catcher who consistently gets open, granted this was just one game, isn't that a problem?

[Oldfan]

Here is a non-analytical answer: Call your scheme Curly, Manny, or Moe for all I care as long as you are scoring points! :cool:

non-analytical = non-answer;)

Walsh's WCO was designed for ball control with the short-to-medium pass as the primary weapon. So, it is not designed to be a dynamic scoring machine like the Coryell. So, don't use the number of points scored as a measure of its success. Our red zone problems are another matter.