rwleshin Posted October 5, 2009 Share Posted October 5, 2009 I read these boards all of the time but rarely post. I was thinking back to the many QB controversies since I have been a fan of the Redskins (starting around 1980 or so). The main one that sticks out is the Jay Shroeder vs. Doug Williams which led to a Super Bowl victory. My question is for long time fans to try and remember what side of the fence did they come down on and reasons why. And please if anyone was around for Billy vs. Sonny, I would like to hear what the majority thought. My thoughts. 1. Jay vs. Doug - I remember being strongly in favor of starting Doug. I believed Jay was the more "talented" QB but a head case. The team was close (obviously) to being a great team and I thought a solid QB with strong leadership was the best way to go. This is very obvious now, but I do remember quite a bit of chatter of people in support of Jay. 2. Heath vs. Gus - I wanted Heath to start and get some time to develop. Unlike Jay vs. Doug, I did not think the team was close to being a good team. Heath, I felt had more talent and should given a strong look at. Gus I thought was only an average QB at best and never really had the talent to be a great QB in the NFL. I think if the team was close to being a strong playoff contendar, I might have thought differentially. But we were in rebuild mode, and I think Heath should have been given more of a shot. Before I get bashed too much on this, look how Heath played in NO before his career ending injury. It seemed he was starting to "get it" 3. Brad Johnson vs. Jeff George - Never liked Jeff George. Again I wanted the experienced vet with a good head (Jeff George had experience) to take a good team to the playoffs. I think this QB controversy was similar to Jay vs. Doug (but with bad results). Of course, in this one, we went with Jay instead of Doug. 4. Mark Brunell vs. Patrick Ramsey - I'll admit it, I wanted Ramsey to get a fair shot. I do however think the right move was made as I think Spurrier ruined Ramsey. 5. Brunell vs. JC - I think they moved to JC too late, but I pretty much agree how this situation was handled. We wanted to win with a solid team and Brunell gave us the best chance at the time. Once it wasn't clicking, a move to JC for experience should (and was) made. 6. JC vs. TC - Without turning this whole thread into one of the 8 million bash JC threads (or pro JC threads), I think and still think that JC is the way to go. Although he has struggled, I do not think this is a Super Bowl team with either QB. I would go with youth. I think a better argument could have been made if Colt did not get injured to see what we have there than to go with Todd Collins. But to me, it doesn't make sense to go to a 37 year old vet with this team (again, I'd compare this to Gus vs. Heath, and I'd prefer a young guy). So what does everyone else think (and try to remember back in the moment if possible). I think I might be 50-50 on the QB controversies in DC (probably wrong with Heath vs. Gus, Brunell vs. JC (as we were not as solid of a contendar as I thought at the time), and Brunell vs. Ramsey). Just curious as to what long time fans think. GO SKINS Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SWFLSkins Posted October 5, 2009 Share Posted October 5, 2009 A QB debate without a pro or anti Campbell comment, huh? Start Colt now,hahahhaaaa Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rwleshin Posted October 5, 2009 Author Share Posted October 5, 2009 A QB debate without a pro or anti Campbell comment, huh?Start Colt now,hahahhaaaa hey I can try. But we seem to go through these QB deals every few years in these parts. I was curious more how this one compares to others. :dallasuck Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ALLWORLD Posted October 5, 2009 Share Posted October 5, 2009 I would definitely say that there is no where near the huge ordeal over JC vs TC as there was with Brunell and JC. JC was young, drafted high and was (is) very athletic along with a very strong arm. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rwleshin Posted October 5, 2009 Author Share Posted October 5, 2009 I would definitely say that there is no where near the huge ordeal over JC vs TC as there was with Brunell and JC. JC was young, drafted high and was (is) very athletic along with a very strong arm. agreed. Which way did you want to go on Brunell and JC at the time? I was ok with Brunell for a year so JC could watch. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nightbird Posted October 5, 2009 Share Posted October 5, 2009 Put Mark Rypien vs. Stan Humphries on the list. A lot of people thought Ryp didn't have the ability to be a championship QB and we should go with the more talented and heralded Humphries. Anyway, as you said, we don't have a controversy at all right now, it's just a situation. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ouvan59 Posted October 5, 2009 Share Posted October 5, 2009 You forgot Mark Rypien vs Stan Humphries. Also Joey T vs Billy. As for JC vs TC, I think you go with Campbell and screw the conservative win the game by a FG mentality. Put him in the situation where he is going to sink or swim. Demand that he throws the ball downfield and let his receivers make plays. If a receiver is covered tightly on a fly route, throw the ball to the back shoulder like every good team in the league does. Run patterns in the endzone for our big receivers and tell him to throw the ball high to them. It doesn't have to be the corner fade which Campbell is so bad at. Run Kelly and Mitchell along the back of the endzone and have him zip one where only they can catch it. If he can't handle it, fine. Move on. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rwleshin Posted October 5, 2009 Author Share Posted October 5, 2009 Put Mark Rypien vs. Stan Humphries on the list.A lot of people thought Ryp didn't have the ability to be a championship QB and we should go with the more talented and heralded Humphries. Anyway, as you said, we don't have a controversy at all right now, it's just a situation. I forgot that one. I KNOW I had that one wrong :doh: (although Stan did pretty well after he left DC and maybe could have done well with that SB team) I guess at least I can admit when a read QB's wrong (Ramsey, Rypien, Heath) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ALLWORLD Posted October 5, 2009 Share Posted October 5, 2009 agreed. Which way did you want to go on Brunell and JC at the time? I was ok with Brunell for a year so JC could watch. I wanted JC, sad but true. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rwleshin Posted October 5, 2009 Author Share Posted October 5, 2009 You forgot Mark Rypien vs Stan Humphries. Also Joey T vs Billy. Joey T was entrenched from my first memories (and an opinion of a 2 year old might not mean much). Can you run that one down for the 30 something crowd? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NewCliche21 Posted October 5, 2009 Share Posted October 5, 2009 I wanted JC, sad but true. How is that sad but true? So did everyone else who cheered for the Redskins. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mcarey032 Posted October 5, 2009 Share Posted October 5, 2009 I was really hopeful for Jason Campbell and I was glad that he was able to get us a win yesterday. I am big supporter of his and really want him to do well and I hope that he can, but I am coming to the realization that he is an average QB. He is not as bad as most people make him out to be, but he is no where near the guy that can be the franchise QB. Two plays stood out in my mind that showed me that he was just an average QB and that was on 4th and 2, the Redskins went for it because Hunter Smith was out. Campbell threw into traffic (double coverage) and did not convert the down. On that particular play, Chris Cooley had one on one coverage in the slot was beating his guy, but Jason did not make an attempt to throw the ball. Then the opposite happened on a 3rd and 2 where Campbell threw the ball deep to Kelly and the DB intercepted the ball. While it wasn't a detrimental play because it was third down and the Redskins didn't really have a punter, it wasn't a back breaker, but it seems to me that Campbell could have made better decisions. I know that yesterday was his worst game as a pro and I hope that he can improve, but ultimately he is not going to be here next year and we will have to start all over again to find a QB to be our franchise guy. If I am going to pick a guy on current roster to be the QB, it would be Jason Campbell over the other players because of his mobility and arm. He is the best QB on this roster. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Farbod21 Posted October 5, 2009 Share Posted October 5, 2009 Its not JC vs TC right now. Its: JC vs ANYONE ELSE! I think half this board would rather see Randel El back there... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Buck812 Posted October 5, 2009 Share Posted October 5, 2009 The only place we have a QB controvesy is on here though. It doesnt even really exist in the media. Its just an extremskins thing. lol Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SoCalSkins Posted October 5, 2009 Share Posted October 5, 2009 There has never been a QB on the Redskins as incompetent as JC for such a long period. It is not a controversy but an exercise in stupidity of the coaching staff and front office. It is like Groundhog Day and the fans are Bill Murray. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Farbod21 Posted October 5, 2009 Share Posted October 5, 2009 There has never been a QB on the Redskins as incompetent as JC for such a long period. It is not a controversy but an exercise in stupidity of the coaching staff and front office.It is like Groundhog Day and the fans are Bill Murray. Ramsey 34 Games JC 40 Games You win Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
elkabong82 Posted October 5, 2009 Share Posted October 5, 2009 Rypien vs. Humphries I still liked Rypien. I didn't like Shuler even when we drafted him, I liked Frerotte, didn't like Wuerffle either (though I was foolish enough to think that because he played for Spurrier we might have success with him, didn't like George, I liked Brad Johnson and I wish we'd have kept him. Ramsey I didn't like that we drafted him, but I wanted him to succeed so bad. I thought Gibbs could do well with Ramsey, that it was just Spurriers bad schemes that hurt Ramsey, but I trusted Gibbs decision to go with Brunell and when we drafted Campbell I took it that meant Gibbs felt Ramsey indeed was damaged goods. Sadly, it has turned out to be true. Obviously I support JC over Colllins now, we're not in Al Saunders' system. Better to try and push the young QB and see if he can be the guy in possibly his last contract year IMO. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GOOD OL' RIGGO Posted October 5, 2009 Share Posted October 5, 2009 its not jc vs tc right now. Its: Jc vs anyone else! I think half this board would rather see randel el back there... so true Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SoCalSkins Posted October 5, 2009 Share Posted October 5, 2009 Ramsey 34 GamesJC 40 Games You win Ramsey started 24 games. He had far more success relative to JC as a Redskin. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
elkabong82 Posted October 6, 2009 Share Posted October 6, 2009 and people are already trying to turn it into another bash JC thread. The point of the thread is to discuss your opinions on previous Redskin QB controversies you can remember, and compare it to today. There's at least 6 other threads where bashing Campbell is already going on, give it a rest. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NewCliche21 Posted October 6, 2009 Share Posted October 6, 2009 and people are already trying to turn it into another bash JC thread.The point of the thread is to discuss your opinions on previous Redskin QB controversies you can remember, and compare it to today. There's at least 6 other threads where bashing Campbell is already going on, give it a rest. Not when SoCal is involved. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
scruffylookin Posted October 6, 2009 Share Posted October 6, 2009 There is no current controversey. JC is the quarterback. As for the past and my positions: 1987 Jay vs. Doug (Jay) 1988-1989 Doug vs. Ryp (Ryp) 1990 Ryp vs. Stan vs. Rutledge (Ryp) 1993 Ryp vs. Conklin vs. Gannon (Ryp) 1994 Heath vs. Gus (Heath) 1997 Gus vs. Hoss (Gus) 1998 Gus vs. Trent (Trent) 2000 Brad vs. Jeff (neutral with a lean towards Jeff) 2002 Gators vs. Ramsey (Ramsey) 2004-2005 Ramsey vs. Brunell (Ramsey) 2006 Brunell vs. JC (JC) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SoCalSkins Posted October 6, 2009 Share Posted October 6, 2009 Not when SoCal is involved. You can't refute my posts and the accuracy to which most of my opinions have panned out, so you resort to 3rd party comments because you are afraid of what will happen to any shred of credibility you might think you have if you engaged in intelligent discussion directly. Put me on ignore or have the nerve to respond directly. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rwleshin Posted October 6, 2009 Author Share Posted October 6, 2009 and people are already trying to turn it into another bash JC thread.The point of the thread is to discuss your opinions on previous Redskin QB controversies you can remember, and compare it to today. There's at least 6 other threads where bashing Campbell is already going on, give it a rest. thank you, elkabong82. and mods, please feel free to move the bash/pro campbell posts to another thread where it fits better. I won't cry censorship Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HailGreen28 Posted October 6, 2009 Share Posted October 6, 2009 As for JC vs TC, I think you go with Campbell and screw the conservative win the game by a FG mentality. And what have we gotten with Campbell? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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