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Pride cometh before the fall, some thing to watch in upcoming weeks


paintrain

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One of the internal criticisms of Coach Zorn last year was he wasn't shy about 'throwing his players under the bus' to the press which didn't really endear him to some of his players. He seemed to show some slight improvement at times during the season and it was something he apparently was going to be more conscious of this season but in the past couple of days it's crept back in to his comments.

For example: Zorn defended his decision to try a trick play--a wide receiver option--on the Redskins’ second offensive play of the game.

Antwaan Randle El rolled right and tried to throw to either Santana Moss or Chris Cooley, but there were well-covered. Randle El was eventually tackled for an 11-yard loss on the play.

“The trick play was pretty sound,” he said. “It was the right field position. It was on the script. To me, it could not have been set up any better. They covered it well.

“I would trust every time if I called it again that Antwaan would just throw it away. He decided to try and make something out of it. There was nothing really there.”

Also:

Campbell eluded pressure on a pass play by rolling right. He scrambled past the line of scrimmage and tried to throw to Santana Moss along the right sideline, but Giants cornerback stepped in front of the pass for an interception.

It was a poor decision, Zorn said.

“I can say, ‘Hey, obey the rules. You have to throw the ball behind the line of scrimmage.’” Zorn said. “He knows that. He just lost sight of where he was and thought he could get the ball into Santana.”

On perhaps the game’s most critical play, defensive end Osi Umenyiora swatted the ball from Campbell’s hands, scooped up the fumble and raced 37 yards for a touchdown midway through the second quarter.

“Jason could have stepped up further in the pocket, and then he could have made a decision to throw--either throw the ball away or run,” Zorn said. “There was nothing really there.

“We were trying to go deep to Santana, but they doubled him. We tried to get the ball to Chris Cooley, but he was covered. [Campbell] was looking for the check-down. He really did the right thing.”

Zorn suggested that Campbell needed to be more aware of pressure in the pocket.

Now he may be 100% right in both instances, I have more of an issue with the ARE comments basically saying, 'it was a good play I called, but the players messed it up.' Those type of things can sour a locker room quickly if the season takes a tumultuous turn. It's not a big deal, yet, but I think it will be something to keep an eye on as the season goes on.

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It's not hard to find solid reasons to criticize Z's coaching on the field. Why bother with this nit-picking crap?

I completely agree with the criticisms of Zorn's on field coaching, it's been pretty awful. I'm talking about him losing the locker room if he continues to place blame on the players while not taking any public responsibility for his culpability. How is that nit-picking?

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Well if he does lose the locker room quicker than last year when it appeared, at least on the field anyway, many of the players stopped playing for him with a big "F YOU Coach. If you won't back us in public, were not gona' put it in for you"; then this year will be even longer than many of us initially thought. :doh:

The man will stand and ultimately fall by his own arrogance that what he believes to be right is, with NO exceptions, and everyone else needs to catch on rather than him look at himself and change.

On the basis of his Week 1 showing: New year, same old amateur HC who's learned little.

Hail.

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so you're mad at him because he is honest? You're saying grown men can't take responsibility for their poor plays? Sure he makes mistakes as a coach but it's not his responsibility to take the blame for players mistakes. Is he supposed to say "I called a pass play, jason threw a pick so its my fault for calling a pass play?"

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I'm talking about him losing the locker room if he continues to place blame on the players while not taking any public responsibility for his culpability. How is that nit-picking?

If he wins, no one will say that he lost the locker room. If he loses games he should have won, they will. That's all we need to know about the locker room.

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Now he may be 100% right in both instances, I have more of an issue with the ARE comments basically saying, 'it was a good play I called, but the players messed it up.'

How is there anything wrong with saying that. I think that play was actually even more boneheaded than the Campbell INT, and thats saying A LOT. At least the Campbell INT was a busted play and he did something remarkably stupid. Randle El was running the play exactly as it was supposed to be run, saw nobody was open, and then did something remarkably stupid. I think Zorn has merit here. As piss-poor as his playcalling was, we were three plays away from winning that game in my opinion.

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so you're mad at him because he is honest? You're saying grown men can't take responsibility for their poor plays? Sure he makes mistakes as a coach but it's not his responsibility to take the blame for players mistakes. Is he supposed to say "I called a pass play, jason threw a pick so its my fault for calling a pass play?"

Where did I say I was mad at him or men can't take responsibility? One of the internal criticisms about him last year was that he called his players out in the press. Most coaches don't do that, they support them, almost to a fault, publicly. Zorn doesn't do that and it rubs some players the wrong way. I was just saying it was something to watch. Some of you clowns are ridiculous.

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How is there anything wrong with saying that. I think that play was actually even more boneheaded than the Campbell INT, and thats saying A LOT. At least the Campbell INT was a busted play and he did something remarkably stupid. Randle El was running the play exactly as it was supposed to be run, saw nobody was open, and then did something remarkably stupid. I think Zorn has merit here. As piss-poor as his playcalling was, we were three plays away from winning that game in my opinion.

If he said, 'it may not have been the best call as I look back at it but Randle El should have thrown it away' would be much better FROM A PLAYER PERSPECTIVE (and a fact, it was a horse**** call) than 'it was a good call but the player screwed it up'.

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If he said, 'it may not have been the best call as I look back at it but Randle El should have thrown it away' would be much better FROM A PLAYER PERSPECTIVE (and a fact, it was a horse**** call) than 'it was a good call but the player screwed it up'.

Meh. We've run that play in the past, often with great success. I don't have a problem with the call itself, really. And if it was on that 15 play script, then that means they practiced it a lot during the week, felt comfortable with it, and Randle El had run it several times.

That one is all on the player.

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Meh. We've run that play in the past, often with great success. I don't have a problem with the call itself, really. And if it was on that 15 play script, then that means they practiced it a lot during the week, felt comfortable with it, and Randle El had run it several times.

That one is all on the player.

The second play of the season when you haven't established anything yet? That's a play you run once you've set up the reverse to get the LB and safeties flowing to the ball. As soon as ARE goes in motion towards the backfield there's got to be a defensive assistant screaming "PASS!" that early. It was an awful play call, one of many, from Zorn. I agree 100% the point would be moot if ARE would have thrown it away as he should have, but to still defend the call when the play was blown up on the front end and back end is highly questionable.

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It's very disturbing that Zorn doesn't realize what an awful, horrible, horrendous play call the WR option was at that point in the game.

Disturbing? Yes. Surprising? No.

Remember, he was the guy saying Mike Williams had an excellent preseason game against the Jags.... when it appears to everyone and their dead grandparents that Williams struggled mightily.

Yeah, sure Zorn. It was scripted. You knew that Portis was going to rip off a 34-yard run on the first play from scrimmage.

You talk about it being scripted... with the perfect field position for that call. You only got that field position because Portis ripped off a long run. If it was scripted.... that means Zorn was going to call that play on the Redskins 30-yard line?!?! Sure.

What a god damn moron.

Again, I feel vindicated that I cancelled my NFL Sunday TIcket package this year for the first time since 1999.... in protest of the Redskins hiring (and hiring process) of Jim Zorn.

Frankly, this franchise is a disgrace right now.

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The second play of the season when you haven't established anything yet? That's a play you run once you've set up the reverse to get the LB and safeties flowing to the ball. As soon as ARE goes in motion towards the backfield there's got to be a defensive assistant screaming "PASS!" that early. It was an awful play call, one of many, from Zorn. I agree 100% the point would be moot if ARE would have thrown it away as he should have, but to still defend the call when the play was blown up on the front end and back end is highly questionable.

Again, meh. If he had completed it to Moss for a 35+ yard gain, nobody on this board would be talking about how awful of a playcall it was. We'd be praising Zorn's innovative, aggressive playcalling.

Just like last year when we went for it on 4th and a few in consecutive weeks. We converted both and won the games. If we hadn't, and had lost or come close to losing, we'd be bashing him for being too risky. Instead, we all said how he was "going for the jugular" and "keeping his foot down".

Fans are fickle, and decide single plays on results, not intent.

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Disturbing? Yes. Surprising? No.

What a god damn moron.

Again, I feel vindicated that I cancelled my NFL Sunday TIcket package this year for the first time since 1999.... in protest of the Redskins hiring (and hiring process) of Jim Zorn.

Frankly, this franchise is a disgrace right now.

Completely agree. You can take the "frankly" out of the last sentence: this franchise is a disgrace right now.

Zorn is in so far over his head, it's actually comical. Our offensive scheme looks worse than every single team in the NFL...much worse. I give Zorn 3 games before he loses this team entirely and there's a full on revolt in the locker room.

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The second play of the season when you haven't established anything yet? That's a play you run once you've set up the reverse to get the LB and safeties flowing to the ball. As soon as ARE goes in motion towards the backfield there's got to be a defensive assistant screaming "PASS!" that early. It was an awful play call, one of many, from Zorn. I agree 100% the point would be moot if ARE would have thrown it away as he should have, but to still defend the call when the play was blown up on the front end and back end is highly questionable.

Rewatch the play if you can. It was a horrible call... and a horrible designed play.

Sellers go in motion to the right.... which made the Giants right OLB stay at the LOS to be able to take Portis if he ran to his side.... which Portis did as he fake an off-tackle run and ran into him.

Pierce followed Sellers to the playside.... and Sellers motion right was designed to seal in Justin Tuck... which he did. However, now you have Pierce playing 5 yards off the LOS flowing to the ball (Randle-El).

So who picks up the left OLB (ie. Chase Blackburn)? No one. Chase stayed home.... which isn't that hard to do when the fullback is coming to your side and the backside WR is motioning to that side too.

So Blackburn simply attacks Randle-El unimpeded.... with Pierce for backup... or CB Bruce Johnson who also could have made the play.

So Randle-El had NO opportunity to run with the ball... and zero time to pass.

Poor, poor design.

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The second play of the season when you haven't established anything yet? That's a play you run once you've set up the reverse to get the LB and safeties flowing to the ball. As soon as ARE goes in motion towards the backfield there's got to be a defensive assistant screaming "PASS!" that early. It was an awful play call, one of many, from Zorn. I agree 100% the point would be moot if ARE would have thrown it away as he should have, but to still defend the call when the play was blown up on the front end and back end is highly questionable.

Yup I agree. You do a reverse or a pass with the WR after you've done some running plays and done a reverse with ARE already. After a big run play, why try something like that? I'm sure they had most of their guys close to the LOS so that didn't leave ARE much room to do anything. Even if it was on the script, that doesn't mean you have to do it. I'm sure the script didn't have in there that the first play would be a 34yd run by Portis.

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It's very disturbing that Zorn doesn't realize what an awful, horrible, horrendous play call the WR option was at that point in the game.

Horrible? Why? Because it didn't work. If it did, you wouldn't be saying it. The play didn't work because the Giants had it covered and ARE made a bad play holding on to it and not throwing it away. End of story. When he says it was "on the script" it didn't mean he was going to call it on the second play of the game no matter where they were on the field. He clearly said it was the right spot on the field for that play call.

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If anything, Zorn has been too lenient. I think he tries hard not to throw guys under the bus. He invented coach-speak.

Zorn?!? Gibbs was the king of coach speak, not Zorn. It was noted on more than a few occasions last year that players didn't appreciate him discussing their mistakes but not his own. That's why it was so surprising to many of them when he said he felt like the worst coach in America. It was the first time he'd taken responsibility. I wish I had time to search the archives on Redskins Insider but there were a couple stories like that last season.

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Horrible? Why? Because it didn't work. If it did, you wouldn't be saying it. The play didn't work because the Giants had it covered and ARE made a bad play holding on to it and not throwing it away. End of story.

I see the concept of play sequencing is essentially a foreign language to you?

So either Jim Zorn is play sequencing -- because he keeps referring to his script -- or he's grab-bagging... because of field position.

Either way... it's a losing argument.

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Zorn?!? Gibbs was the king of coach speak, not Zorn. It was noted on more than a few occasions last year that players didn't appreciate him discussing their mistakes but not his own. That's why it was so surprising to many of them when he said he felt like the worst coach in America. It was the first time he'd taken responsibility. I wish I had time to search the archives on Redskins Insider but there were a couple stories like that last season.

I don't see where he was inordinately harsh on his players. It's nothing personal but I just don't agree with the thread.

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The WR option reminds me of the trick plays Gibbs II used to run, which often didn't work. Very unimaginative. Seems the only thing the Skins can do is resort to trick plays to try to spice up a very generic offense.

Generic is an understatement on so many levels. I was saddened at the simplicity of the plays called in that 2-minute drill. And I'm talking strictly about the receiver routes.

Those were some of the most basic receiver route combinations I've witnessed in the NFL. The fact that the Redskins marched down the field on that final drive was because the Giants were giving up the underneath stuff... not because of the brilliance of the routes/playcalls.

You want to know why teams can shut down Moss? It's the designed routes he's been given.

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