So if we're still in a need to draft a franchise QB in 2010, who is the guy?

[leprecaun24]

Shut up with the quaterback crap. JC is who we have, and we have to stick by him. Now you can gripe, grumble, and grouse all you want but it doesn't make the world a difference.

Watch days of our lives or some other day time soap opera to consume your wasted time on this planet. I'll enjoy mine.

[theboomking]

To be fair about gresham, his qb was MUCH better than cooley's in college. I don't disagree with the logic, but Cooley is a productive te and a fan favorite. I would rather just get rid of Davis and use Cooley and Gresham in 2 te sets; that is, if gresham's stock fell so drastically.

As to those pointing out why wouldn't we draft an o-lineman 1st overall, the answer is simple. We'll pick up some average o-linemen in free agency and call our problem fixed while hoping undrafted o-linemen step up. I honestly wouldn't mind drafting a linebacker, either mlb or wlb. Rocky is a free agent next year if we don't resign him and I think Weatherspoon, Spikes, or McClain could all be special (along with a host of 4-5 other linebackers). Linebacker is more high profile than o-line and I think we'll do well enough that the FO keeps JC.

Gresham did have not just a better quarterback, but better layers all around him to take defensive attention away from him. I'm not really in favor of drafting a TE, just playing devils advocate. I was being honest though about Cooley. The last place, other than special teams, where I would choose to have two great players on the depth chart is TE, and if Cooley could be packaged to move up and get Okung, or in a move to get Peppers, I think you have to do it. It's not his popularity that would make me hesitate, but the fact that he makes big plays, at big times, and seems to set a good example with regards to his preparation. I really do think we would do fine with Fred Davis and Eddie Williams though in 2010.

If we aren't in place to get one of the top 3 LT's, Okung/Williams/Baluga, I think the value in next draft between 19 and 25, probably will be at LB, DT, or in Anthony Davis from Rutgers. I wouldn't mind seeing us go LB or DT with that pick and OL in the second round. I generally agree with Vinnie's BPA strategy. In fact, I don't think he has followed it as wholly as he should have, taking Landry over Peterson, and Rogers over Merriman and Ware. We obviously did not want a LB, and did want a CB in those two drafts. It's hard to go wrong with BPA every year. If you get stacked at that position, you make a trade later. BPA lowers your chances of missing and wasting picks on busts, improves depth, and raises the overall talent level on the team.

[theboomking]

That said I wouldn't draft any of them. If there are some other guys to really come along Id take a look at them but the truth is we have been a FA qb away from the playoffs for years. Guys with alot less talent through the league have outperformed campbell over the years. Jeff garcia could take us to the playoffs this year. Another guy mentioned pennington and he is absolutely correct. I honestly would take a look at Mcnabb if he was released after the season. I think hes getting too old to carry a team for a full season but luckily we have a good run game and he can manage and save himself for the post season.

I agree that Garcia would have looked good for us last year. Problem is, this year he is 40, would be learning a new system, and hopefully Campbell has improved. Last year would have been the time to bring in Garcia, but I guess a big part of why Zorn was chosen was to let him develop Campbell. Lets hope he's successful in that endeavor.

I agree that Mcnabb might look good in a Skins uniform, but he has been emotionally fragile, and I'm not sure how he would take to mentoring a younger QB. The whole Vick thing has really put me off a bit. McNabb seems like a really good guy, but you have to have a bit of a thicker skin in the NFL.

[Going Commando]

ok, color me confused. So while people on this board and the media have constantly said this team needs o-line help (something never truly addressed in the draft), and the FO has a horrible habit of drafting "name" players instead of "need" players, people are now looking past this season and talking about drafting a high profile rookie QB.

I thought this team has their "future franchise QB" in Colt, if I'm reading most of the posts on this board correctly. So if Colt "isn't" ready after 3 years, how would a rookie be any more ready?

How about we see how the season turns out?

I disagree about drafting a name. If that were a case, we would have gone with Shawne Merriman instead of Carlos Rogers in '05. And we might have traded up for Rodgers instead of Campbell. If we were drafting for name recognition, we would have drafted Desean Jackson or maybe even Limas Sweed instead of Devin Thomas last year. Also, I'd never heard of Kevin Barnes before we got him this year, and he definitely wasn't on most lists of top prospects at the position. Also, I think offensive linemen develop just as much if not more celebrity in the draft community as skill position players.

I think this FO uses a very strict BPA strategy in the first two-maybe three rounds that gives way a little to need in the middle of the draft. That's very different from drafting star names (think Bengals).

[Going Commando]

whats the issue with the qb from florida.robo qb? i agree with the other i saw mentioned but i haven't been able to find the problem with tebo.all he does is win,he can run has a goo to great arm and has spent his whole career in the lime light so the pressure isn't goin g tobother him. i think we have the coach to help him with his rough edges.i thought he was the cats meow and now he's not even mentioned a a viable qb candidate for the nfl.i've missed all the stuff written about him being a system qb or somemthing like that.but he has alot of athletisism and a good head and leadership skills.i haven't seen any problem with his arm either.enlighten me as to the consensus about tebo.thanks

Here. This scout Matt McGuire gives a very good evaluation of Tebow IMO. He is both judicious and blunt and I think he's dead on: Click here for the website

Strengths: Good height and great musculature

Solid arm strength

Very good deep ball accuracy

Great pass rush sense and pocket instincts

Athletic and can move chains with legs

Extremely powerful runner

Good trucking ability; picks up yards after contact

Good character and strong work ethic

Prototype leader

Weaknesses:

Absolutely horrendous footwork; has not gotten better since freshman year

Plays in run-option offense

Doesn't throw smooth ball; bad touch

Inaccurate on intermediate routes

Extremely long release

Very bad passing mechanics

Locks onto primary receiver

No pro reads in offense

Left-handed

Tucks and runs

Doesn't make pro-style passing progression reads

Comes from program with bad QB pedigree

Summary: If I could take Tim Tebow's mind and put it into the body of some college quarterbacks, then they would be No. 1 overall picks. However, we have seen quarterbacks with outstanding intangibles bust at the next level. It will take Tebow 3-4 years to learn an NFL offense to where he could actually start a game.

Tebow's best fit at the next level will be at fullback or H-Back because his best skills are his running abilities; there's too much development involved to draft Tebow as a franchise quarterback, though the success of Pat White in the Wildcat offense could help his draft stock. Looks to be a second-round pick with his great intangibles and versatility.

Player Comparison: Byron Leftwich (Passer)/Mike Alstott (Runner). Tebow has a very similar release to Leftwich and he will also struggle to read defenses in NFL. He also has Mike Alstott's elite power running attributes with the ability to get yards after contact.

[Laron Burgundy]

Tebow was graded as a first round pick by the two major nfl scouting agencies. Those agencies regularly rate busts in the 1st round as much as anyone else though. I think Tebow is probably a lot harder worker than Leftwich and would honestly be surprised if his career wasn't better. He may never be a Manning or Brady, but Tebow should be serviceable. Maybe not what I'd want in a 1st rounder but I honestly wouldn't mind using a 2nd rounder on him. At the very least he is an amazing leader and person who would probably work hard even if he was relegated to fb and special teams.

[Going Commando]

I've seen Snead play in person. He has a great arm and throws the ball in places that most college QBs can't. On the flip side, he does tend to force the ball and gets picked off. Snead will be a good pro and starting QB. I don't know about Teebow, sure he is probably the greatest QB ever in college. But that doesn't mean he will be a great pro QB (Heath Shuler was suppose to be the next coming of Aikman!). If it were me, I'd get the best OL in the 1st round and draft a QB second.

I wish we could, but the way this class will probably play out, it will be much deeper in OTs than QBs and we'd get the best over-all value out of going QB first and OT second.

What I actually expect to happen is much better than that scenario though since I think Campbell will get re-signed and we won't need to go QB early. When that happens, I hope one of three things happens to us in the draft: 1.) A super-blue chip defensive player (Weatherspoon, Berry, Suh, Gerald McCoy) fall to us, or 2.) A dominant OT like Bryan Bulaga falls to us, or 3.) we trade back into the second and pick up a bunch of 2nd round picks.

Right now Bulaga has become my personal favorite of the prospects. I think he'd have the most impact on our team right away. (But I'd still take Berry and McCoy and Suh over him if they were there because of their long term benefit.)

[Going Commando]

Shut up with the quaterback crap. JC is who we have, and we have to stick by him. Now you can gripe, grumble, and grouse all you want but it doesn't make the world a difference.

Watch days of our lives or some other day time soap opera to consume your wasted time on this planet. I'll enjoy mine.

Try reading the thread first before you chime in with an opinion like this. It's a prospects discussion and there is absolutely nothing wrong with that. It's not for bashing Campbell, it's discussing other QBs who are draft eligible next year.

If you want to talk about the facts, the fact is that Campbell's contract is up at the end of the year which means we very well could be in the market for a new QB next season. So then why the hell shouldn't we look and see who might be available, even if we like Campbell. Just because the guy is our starter now doesn't mean he is the only QB in the world to pay attention to and talk about.

[Going Commando]

Tebow was graded as a first round pick by the two major nfl scouting agencies. Those agencies regularly rate busts in the 1st round as much as anyone else though. I think Tebow is probably a lot harder worker than Leftwich and would honestly be surprised if his career wasn't better. He may never be a Manning or Brady, but Tebow should be serviceable. Maybe not what I'd want in a 1st rounder but I honestly wouldn't mind using a 2nd rounder on him. At the very least he is an amazing leader and person who would probably work hard even if he was relegated to fb and special teams.

I agree with your opinion although I wouldn't draft him in the second if I thought his future was at special teams and H-back. I probably wouldn't draft him at all because we aren't a good fit for him as an organization. Tebow needs to end up on a team like the Patriots or Colts kind of like Aaron Rodgers did--something where he can afford to sit for three or four seasons and completely rework his mechanics and learn to run a pro-offense. Rodgers had a lot of mechanical flaws coming out of Cal and now he is so good... sitting for a few years was the best thing in the world for him. That's not what Washington would be like for Tebow unless we are happy with using Chad Pennington for a couple of seasons and fortifying an offensive line and running game around him while he learns. Maybe that could work but I just don't see us having the patience for that, especially with the way our defense is built.

[Going Commando]

Gresham did have not just a better quarterback, but better layers all around him to take defensive attention away from him. I'm not really in favor of drafting a TE, just playing devils advocate. I was being honest though about Cooley. The last place, other than special teams, where I would choose to have two great players on the depth chart is TE, and if Cooley could be packaged to move up and get Okung, or in a move to get Peppers, I think you have to do it. It's not his popularity that would make me hesitate, but the fact that he makes big plays, at big times, and seems to set a good example with regards to his preparation. I really do think we would do fine with Fred Davis and Eddie Williams though in 2010.

If we aren't in place to get one of the top 3 LT's, Okung/Williams/Baluga, I think the value in next draft between 19 and 25, probably will be at LB, DT, or in Anthony Davis from Rutgers. I wouldn't mind seeing us go LB or DT with that pick and OL in the second round. I generally agree with Vinnie's BPA strategy. In fact, I don't think he has followed it as wholly as he should have, taking Landry over Peterson, and Rogers over Merriman and Ware. We obviously did not want a LB, and did want a CB in those two drafts. It's hard to go wrong with BPA every year. If you get stacked at that position, you make a trade later. BPA lowers your chances of missing and wasting picks on busts, improves depth, and raises the overall talent level on the team.

I'm a huge proponent of BPA--with regard given to need. I'd reach a little for positions of dire long-term need but the only situation like that on our roster now is OT (HB is almost there). In 2005, I think the Rogers pick wasn't necessarily a Vinny move as the consensus of the committee we had making the choices. And that was absolutely a reach for a CB because of dire need (with Smoot and Bailey leaving). The funny thing about '05 is that Rogers at 9 is arguably the best pick in the top 10 from that year.

The thing is, I would only trade Cooley if I felt certain of getting Gresham but I would want to trade Cooley for a draft pick. Also, I wouldn't take less than a first for him unless it was a 2nd and 3rd. He is a pro-bowl player with zero character or health issues in the prime of his career. He is worth a first alone. And even if someone was giving us a high first for him (unlikely) I'd still hesitate a little.

Also I wouldn't trade for Peppers at all. He's going to be 30 next year and his value is going to drop substantially. I think an irrefutable rule of thumb should be never trade first day picks for a guy over 30. It's just not worth it.

So I just don't see us getting a half-decent return for Cooley relative to the risk of losing him. If Gresham was already in the fold maybe, but I get the sense it would be hard to find a team who would trade the player they just drafted in round 1 for him.

I agree about the tackles. Matt McGuire turned me off of Williams a bit. I think he's going to get exposed this season now that OU's offense is going to look like crap (losing his 4 OL partners from last year and the star QB and TE). By season's end, we are going to have an entirely different look at the tier 1 OT's and by the time guys declare I wouldn't be shocked if the top tier was made up of Okung, Bulaga, Bruce Campbell, Charles Brown, and then someone out of nowhere like Lee Ziemba or Gabe Carimi. Anthony Davis could be in there too.

Okung is awesome but his availability would be a very large stretch. Who knows though, we got Orakpo at 13. Still, I like Bulaga a lot. I haven't read anything bad about him at all. The other tackle Iowa's got is really good too, but Bulaga seems like he'd be a perfect fit here on either the right or left.

[Yeen80]

I vote Seneca Wallace

[dieselfan44]

pretty crappy timing on this one...I'm behind JC 100%...

[SkinsfanFL]

How many times do you have to read and hear that “Jason Campbell is not a franchise quarterback?” Whether he is, or isn't the Redskins “franchise” quarterback is not really do or die for this team is it? It's really about Coach Zorn playing the best player at every position, which gives his team the best chance to win. Simple philosophy don't you think? Do you really believe that any NFL coach, is not going to start his best player at every position? C'mon people, wake up!

Just how many “franchise” quarterbacks are currently in the NFL anyway? How many “franchise” quarterbacks have won the Super Bowl? Better yet, how many “franchise” quarterbacks do think the Redskins have had, ever? Baugh, yes. Jurgensen, yes. Theisman, maybe. I count 2 ½ “franchise” quarterbacks in the entire history of the Washington Redskins!

So let's not get ourselves all “bent out of shape” about Campbell not being a “franchise” quarterback. Accept the decision of our head coach, and support your team 100%! Because you no what fellow Skins fans?...Sammy Baugh, Sonny Jurgensen, or Joe Theisman ARE NOT walking through that door anytime soon.

Forever a fan. HTTR!

[theboomking]

How many times do you have to read and hear that “Jason Campbell is not a franchise quarterback?” Whether he is, or isn't the Redskins “franchise” quarterback is not really do or die for this team is it? It's really about Coach Zorn playing the best player at every position, which gives his team the best chance to win. Simple philosophy don't you think? Do you really believe that any NFL coach, is not going to start his best player at every position? C'mon people, wake up!

Just how many “franchise” quarterbacks are currently in the NFL anyway? How many “franchise” quarterbacks have won the Super Bowl? Better yet, how many “franchise” quarterbacks do think the Redskins have had, ever? Baugh, yes. Jurgensen, yes. Theisman, maybe. I count 2 ½ “franchise” quarterbacks in the entire history of the Washington Redskins!

So let's not get ourselves all “bent out of shape” about Campbell not being a “franchise” quarterback. Accept the decision of our head coach, and support your team 100%! Because you no what fellow Skins fans?...Sammy Baugh, Sonny Jurgensen, or Joe Theisman ARE NOT walking through that door anytime soon.

Forever a fan. HTTR!

Hmmm..franchise quarterbacks to win the superbowl, how about 7 out of the last 10?

Brady*3

Roethlisberger*2

Warner*1

Peyton Manning * 1

The other 3 winners? 03 Tampa Bay, 01 Baltimore and 08 Giants - all elite defenses.

[SkinsfanFL]

Hmmm..franchise quarterbacks to win the superbowl, how about 7 out of the last 10?

Brady*3

Roethlisberger*2

Warner*1

Peyton Manning * 1

The other 3 winners? 03 Tampa Bay, 01 Baltimore and 08 Giants - all elite defenses.

Warner.... "franchise quaterback" really? I must have missed something there.

[theboomking]

I'm a huge proponent of BPA--with regard given to need. I'd reach a little for positions of dire long-term need but the only situation like that on our roster now is OT (HB is almost there). In 2005, I think the Rogers pick wasn't necessarily a Vinny move as the consensus of the committee we had making the choices. And that was absolutely a reach for a CB because of dire need (with Smoot and Bailey leaving). The funny thing about '05 is that Rogers at 9 is arguably the best pick in the top 10 from that year.

The thing is, I would only trade Cooley if I felt certain of getting Gresham but I would want to trade Cooley for a draft pick. Also, I wouldn't take less than a first for him unless it was a 2nd and 3rd. He is a pro-bowl player with zero character or health issues in the prime of his career. He is worth a first alone. And even if someone was giving us a high first for him (unlikely) I'd still hesitate a little.

Also I wouldn't trade for Peppers at all. He's going to be 30 next year and his value is going to drop substantially. I think an irrefutable rule of thumb should be never trade first day picks for a guy over 30. It's just not worth it.

So I just don't see us getting a half-decent return for Cooley relative to the risk of losing him. If Gresham was already in the fold maybe, but I get the sense it would be hard to find a team who would trade the player they just drafted in round 1 for him.

I agree about the tackles. Matt McGuire turned me off of Williams a bit. I think he's going to get exposed this season now that OU's offense is going to look like crap (losing his 4 OL partners from last year and the star QB and TE). By season's end, we are going to have an entirely different look at the tier 1 OT's and by the time guys declare I wouldn't be shocked if the top tier was made up of Okung, Bulaga, Bruce Campbell, Charles Brown, and then someone out of nowhere like Lee Ziemba or Gabe Carimi. Anthony Davis could be in there too.

Okung is awesome but his availability would be a very large stretch. Who knows though, we got Orakpo at 13. Still, I like Bulaga a lot. I haven't read anything bad about him at all. The other tackle Iowa's got is really good too, but Bulaga seems like he'd be a perfect fit here on either the right or left.

I'm officially conceding the Cooley points that a) we're not going to trade him, and we shouldn't.

I totally disagree about Julius Peppers though. Obviously, Peppers is a great player, with tremendous size at 6'7" 285#, to match his elite athleticism. I think where we disagree is on two points.

The first, is that I think you are looking at trading for older players within the context of having a salary cap, which cripples your ability to maintain a competitive roster as said player becomes less productive. I would never add Peppers if there is a CBA, for that very reason. Without a cap however, that point is moot.

The second point, I am inferring, is that you think Pepper's production is likely to fall off significantly in the near future. I disagree. There is a significant history of Players with Peppers' size and rushing ability staying productive into their mid 30's. Playing Peppers on the same line as Haynesworth and Orakpo significantly increases his likelihood of remaining highly productive.

Schematically, Peppers fits in perfectly here in Washington. Neither Carter, nor Orakpo has the size that Blache likes in a LDE. Peppers does have the size to anchor against the run as a LDE, but also has the rush ability of an elite RDE. Schematically, if you are an O-line facing Peppers, Orakpo, and Haynesworth, where do you double or chip? As much as I like Jarmon as a prospect, he does not command the same attention from the opposing team. Additionally, both Peppers and Orakpo have the athleticism to drop into coverage into the short zone, giving you additional schematic freedom.

I guess what I'm getting at, is even if he cost you a second round pick, Peppers would be worth it. If you could add a 6'7# 285 pound LDE that would let you move Orakpo to RDE, would likely produce 8 sacks a year over the next 5 years, and would give you the best DE depth of any team in the league with Peppers, Orakpo, Jarmon, Carter and Wilson, would you take that player?

In terms of the OT's, I love Baluga. He would be a great fit in that he could play at RT until we need him to take over for Samuels. Unfortunately,given the recent trends of tackles coming off the board early, Baluga probably will wind up going in the top 10 along with Okung. Hopefully we won't be within striking range of those heights. Anthony Davis would be a great value if he is available where we are picking.

With regards to Anthony Davis, Jeff Otah was a great example of how much a great right tackle can help a team. I was looking up the left tackles from the last 20 superbowl teams, and there were a small handful of appearances by Jonathan Ogden, Orlando Pace, and Walter Jones, but for the most part, it looks a lot more important to have an elite defense or franchis QB. I wonder if this is also cap related given the enourmous monetary investment that a Pace, Jones or Ogden demands.

[Going Commando]

Warner.... "franchise quaterback" really? I must have missed something there.

Warner was all kinds of good with the Rams. He was throwing 30 and 40 touchdowns a yeah for a while and he's been to the Super Bowl three times. If he'd won the Superbowl last year, he'd be a lock for the HoF. He's definitely been a franchise QB.

[Going Commando]

I'm officially conceding the Cooley points that a) we're not going to trade him, and we shouldn't.

Yeah. You want to do something to maximize your talent, but Cooley is just too hard to move.

I totally disagree about Julius Peppers though. Obviously, Peppers is a great player, with tremendous size at 6'7" 285#, to match his elite athleticism. I think where we disagree is on two points.

The first, is that I think you are looking at trading for older players within the context of having a salary cap, which cripples your ability to maintain a competitive roster as said player becomes less productive. I would never add Peppers if there is a CBA, for that very reason. Without a cap however, that point is moot.

good point

The second point, I am inferring, is that you think Pepper's production is likely to fall off significantly in the near future. I disagree. There is a significant history of Players with Peppers' size and rushing ability staying productive into their mid 30's. Playing Peppers on the same line as Haynesworth and Orakpo significantly increases his likelihood of remaining highly productive.

Schematically, Peppers fits in perfectly here in Washington. Neither Carter, nor Orakpo has the size that Blache likes in a LDE. Peppers does have the size to anchor against the run as a LDE, but also has the rush ability of an elite RDE. Schematically, if you are an O-line facing Peppers, Orakpo, and Haynesworth, where do you double or chip? As much as I like Jarmon as a prospect, he does not command the same attention from the opposing team. Additionally, both Peppers and Orakpo have the athleticism to drop into coverage into the short zone, giving you additional schematic freedom.

I think you are right about getting a lot more from Peppers if he played on our line. He's been playing RE the past few seasons I think. He's have to make a switch which is always a little bit tricky since you are flipping your shoulder and hand movements, but I think he'd be able to do it.

I guess what I'm getting at, is even if he cost you a second round pick, Peppers would be worth it. If you could add a 6'7# 285 pound LDE that would let you move Orakpo to RDE, would likely produce 8 sacks a year over the next 5 years, and would give you the best DE depth of any team in the league with Peppers, Orakpo, Jarmon, Carter and Wilson, would you take that player?

Maybe for a 2nd I would with no cap. Probably not a first. He's definitely more worthy of the price than Jason Taylor was. But it's the Jason Taylor trade precisely that scares me off from 30 year old defensive ends. I'm not so certain we'd be able to get high production from him into his mid 30's. I'd expect 3 seasons probably. Hmmm. 3 seasons of a guy who could get 10+ sacks for a 2nd? If Carolina would agree to it... I'd also want to see who was around when we picked in the 2nd so maybe I'd lay the groundwork for the trade and wouldn't finalize it until draft day. It'd be a tough call but my tendency would be to play it conservative and not make the trade.

In terms of the OT's, I love Baluga. He would be a great fit in that he could play at RT until we need him to take over for Samuels. Unfortunately,given the recent trends of tackles coming off the board early, Baluga probably will wind up going in the top 10 along with Okung. Hopefully we won't be within striking range of those heights. Anthony Davis would be a great value if he is available where we are picking.

With regards to Anthony Davis, Jeff Otah was a great example of how much a great right tackle can help a team. I was looking up the left tackles from the last 20 superbowl teams, and there were a small handful of appearances by Jonathan Ogden, Orlando Pace, and Walter Jones, but for the most part, it looks a lot more important to have an elite defense or franchis QB. I wonder if this is also cap related given the enourmous monetary investment that a Pace, Jones or Ogden demands.

If there is a run on OT's early then that means blue chip defenders will fall to us. There are also a bunch of really good receivers this year that should get early first round looks that we can pretty much ignore (Dez Bryant, Damian Williams, Arelious Benn). If we are sitting at pick 22 or so and a guy like Eric Berry falls to us, then I think we have to snap him up no matter who is there. I like what Horton has done for us, but a Landry/Berry pair might achieve what Taylor/Landry was supposed to. I think they would be ahead of Charlie Waters/Cliff Harris as the storied safety tandem.

I can't remember who it was, maybe Ross Tucker, but I remember reading an article where he wrote that the RT position is just as important as the LT spot in today's game. While I don't think this is 100% true, I think the difference in importance is pretty small. Anthony Davis would be a dominating run blocker like Jeff Otah or Andre Smith, and I think having a guy like him opens up so much more for you in the run game, and with you ability to run from spread formations. Davis would give us great value, but then we'd have to hope we could find a LT next year. It all depends on who declares. Perhaps the greatest possible scenario for us aside from Gerald McCoy or Russell Okung slipping all of the way to us where we pick, would be to get the combo of someone like Charles Brown/Bruce Campbell and Anthony Davis with our first two picks. I think Brown/Campbell are prototype LT's and Davis is your RT and then you've set the position for many years to come.

[Going Commando]

I was looking up the left tackles from the last 20 superbowl teams, and there were a small handful of appearances by Jonathan Ogden, Orlando Pace, and Walter Jones, but for the most part, it looks a lot more important to have an elite defense or franchis QB. I wonder if this is also cap related given the enourmous monetary investment that a Pace, Jones or Ogden demands.

Hmmm. That's an interesting thought but I wouldn't read too much into a correlation between those three tackles and a lack of superbowl appearances (although I think all three made it). First, I don't know if those three have been the highest paid at the position, and second, well... there's only been those three and a few others on their level at the position since they've been in the league. Meaning it's fairly unlikely that superbowl teams would show a strong correlation of having a standout player at any one single position other than QB. I can only really think of five that played in their prime the last 15 or 20 years: Ogden, Pace, Jones, Tony Boselli, and Willie Roaf. Also, I can't remember but did Randall McDaniel play tackle with the Vikings or did he play in the interior?

One correlation to note about those 6 guys is they all played in super-productive offenses. I think all but Boselli were in record setting offenses in one way or the other.

Even still, a lot of the recent superbowl teams have had pretty good LTs. David Diehl is solid, Tarik Glenn was pro-bowl caliber, and Matt Light has been pro-bowl caliber too. I don't think committing a lot of money to the position will hamper a team's ability to build elsewhere. I think it's part of the tripartite key to an effective offense in today's game (QB/LT/WR).

Also, let's not forget how much the position has changed over the past 10 years alone. A lot of people think the position became what it is today because of LT, but I think guys like Reggie White and Julius Peppers have transformed it way more. Back in the 80's and 90's these offensive tackles were like 6'2 - 6'3 270. And that was considered huge. Now your minimum height has to be 6'4 and you better be at least 300 lbs or your going to get knocked around. And you have to be just as fast in your lateral agility as the guys you are blocking who are 50 pounds lighter than you. It's actually fairly common now to have a tackle like Jared Gaither who are 6'7 and 330-340.

I think it's become a necessity for your tackles to be able to single block all but the very best of rushers consistently for an entire game. Maybe we haven't noticed it because Samuels has been such a rock all decade long (except when he's been hurt and we've sucked everytime that happened). Three things worry me about the near future of this team: how we will replace Portis' production when he's gone (by a committee of cheaper backs most likely), how we will replace what Fletcher does for us (I'm hoping Blades can be our future leader), and most of all, how we will replace Samuels (going to have to draft a stud).

[theboomking]

Anybody feeling different after the game? Looking at the numbers, Campbell wasn't that bad. The INT was really on Moss, who was just terrible yesterday. Watching the offense though is a different matter. Our O is herky jerky and painful to watch 90% of the time. Whether we succeed or fail, we never make it look easy.

The O-line played well yesterday in protection, but our running game sucked. A big part of that was on the O-line, and some of it has to fall on the RB. Even on Portis' good run, he didn't make any sensational cuts or show any great speed. The first thing that crossed my mind watching that play was, "Jahvid Best would have taken that one to the house". We just have very few dynamic threats on offense. Watching the passing game, I couldn't help but wonder what we would have looked like with Chad Pennington and better surrounding pieces.

I'm not sure what the solution is, but I think a real play caller and a more instinctive quarterback might be the direction we wind up going. If Shanny is here next year, then I think we probably draft a QB high, Snead or Bradford, maybe by trade-up. I think that's a mistake though.

Here is my ideal 2010/11 FA and draft

2010:

1st:Anthony Davis or next best RT via trade down

1st:Via trade back up with our 2 seconds: Jahvid Best

2nd:trade

2nd:trade

4th:trade

5th:legarrette Blount

7th:Best OL, LB or DL avail

Trades:

2011 2nd rounder and Anthony Montgomery for Julius peppers

2010 4th rounder and Moss if we can dump him, for Shaun Rogers

Trade em if you can:

Portis, Moss

Dump em:

Betts, Smoot, Suisham

Sign:

Chad pennington

Rod Hood

Keith Bullock

any decent OL, DL, LB depth

a decent placekicker

Roster:

WR1:Malcolm Kelly, Marko Mitchell

WR2: Devin Thomas

Slot WR: Randle El

RB:Jahvid Best, Legarrette Blount, Mason

FB: Sellers/ Eddie Williams

QB:Campbell/Pennington - open competition

TE:Cooley and Davis

LT:Chris Samuels, Heyer

LG:Dockery

Center:Rabach, Montgomery

RG:Edwin Wiliams, Rhinehart

RT:Anthony Davis

RDE: Orakpo, Carter, Wilson

DT: Shaun Rogers, Golston, Alexander

DT: Haynesworth, Griffin

DE: Peppers, Jarmon

WILL: Keith Bullock/Henson

MIKE: Fletcher/Blades

SAM: McIntosh/Darrel Young

SS:Horton/Doughty

FS:Landry/Moore

CB:Rogers, Tryon

CB:Hall, Rod Hood

CB(slot):Barnes

PR/KR Jahvid Best

Our defense would be championship caliber with a great mix of youth and experience. Our O-line should be solid at a minimum, our RB's and special teams instantly dangerous. 2011 1st round pick for LT and we're rolling.

[eagleskins]

Hahahaha. The INT was on Moss? Absolutely crazy. Candle is god awful.

[Charlied72]

Tim Tebow he wins any were he plays, great attitude a hard worker. ESPN did a bit on him two years ago. He hurt him self over the off season because he attempted to out left the

linemen....and well he did it. He's solid. Great vision, and carry the ball and lay the lumber of tacklers.

[Charlied72]

I know we have the OL needs that desperately need to be addressed, but assuming JC fails again and nobody feels comfortable with Colt or Chase, do we trade up to chase a Colt McCoy, Tim Tebow or Sam Bradford (assuming he goes)? I don't follow college football too seriously other than highlights on Sportscenter and PTI, just curious what everybody thinks?

McCoy isn't a first round draft pick, a true 2nd rounder. I would not want McCoy to be the redskins QB he would take to long to develop in to a starting caliber NFL QB. Sam Bradford Should stay in school for one more year i dont think he will tho. I love Tebow i want him as a skin BUT he isn't a top 10 pick neither is Bradford, They are both high mid rounders-high 2nd round picks.

[theboomking]

Tebow would be a disaster for us. The last thing we need is a guy, who even if he winds up being good, will be a 3-4 year project. Our defense is built no a 2-3 year window.

You know who was a real winner in college? Jason Campbell, with his undefeated senior season. Being a "winner" in college is pretty low on the list of what will make you a good NFL QB. Not to mention that its GD easy to be a "winner" at Florida with all of that talent around you. I'd like to see how Bradford would have been at FL.

[Going Commando]

Tebow would be a disaster for us. The last thing we need is a guy, who even if he winds up being good, will be a 3-4 year project. Our defense is built no a 2-3 year window.

You know who was a real winner in college? Jason Campbell, with his undefeated senior season. Being a "winner" in college is pretty low on the list of what will make you a good NFL QB. Not to mention that its GD easy to be a "winner" at Florida with all of that talent around you. I'd like to see how Bradford would have been at FL.

His surrounding cast at OU might not be all that great this year, but last year the guys he had beside him on offense were just as good as what Tebow had and it showed in his ridiculous level of production. Trent Williams, Duke Robinson, and Phil Loadholt are pretty impressive for a college OL and his runningbacks are all NFL caliber not to mention Gresham who looked like a first round lock until he got hurt.

What I would really like to see is Jevan Snead at UF. I know he had Oher last year and a stout defense but his weapons don't look all that great. I wish he could/would play at the senior bowl.

Jimmy Clausen is another name that needs to be put into the mix now. He has god a cannon for an arm and he is a good player that runs a pro offense. He's throwing to a ridiculously good pair of wideouts and Sam Young is a good tackle at the college level, but I still think Clausen is the best player on that team. He's another one to watch.