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Just a liberal brainwashing anecdote to share.


Art

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My sister-in-law's boyfriend and I were driving up to Duluth to attend a marathon my wife and sister-in-law were running in. The boyfriend and the sister-in-law are week-old graduates of Carelton college, a supposedly top-quality educational institution in Southern Minnesota. Kind of an Ivy League school in the Midwest from what I understand.

Anyway, we were in the car and got to talking and the topic of the U.N. came up. I expressed my view that the U.S. has a Constitution that doesn't and shouldn't subjugate it to the U.N. The boyfriend objected, saying, the U.N. is and should be the world's arbiter of such conflicts. As the conversation continued, it became clear, he was stunned that countries with dictators are given places on the security council and positions on committees like, the Human Rights committee, and, in fact, he had NO idea countries with unelected leaders were even really part of the U.N.

I checked and neither did the sister-in-law. Or, five of her friends, freshly graduated. My sister goes to Harvard and is a PHD in December, and she didn't know. Of the random polling of eight people, not one knew what the U.N. was. Only my sister even knew five countries had permanent veto power, but she didn't know which countries, as she was certain we weren't there but Germany was, "because the rest of the world hates us and would never let us {the U.S. be on the Security Council}."

The rest were stunned by this. Of the eight, six said, after hearing Liberia, Lybia, etc., having no elections and simply installing governments based on military power had no business deciding anything for elected goverments, being any part of any conversation and should not be real members of the U.N. because of elections. Just found it curious that these well-educated students from a liberal elite college were never informed of this.

Yet, each of them, except my sister, repeatedly coined, "My professor (of whatever class) said, [blank]." For those that don't believe there's a great deal of brainwashing going on in our colleges and institutions, come speak with the idiots I'm dealing with :).

What I find encouraging is when people like this are confronted with the truth, they can often find their true political slant. Of the eight, all eight are Democrats. One is working for a Senator in Washington next week. Another wants to be President and is running for the state house in a year. Of the eight, all liberals, only my sister and two of my sister-in-law's friends are actually liberals. The rest just liked what their professors said and will be card carrying members of the right in two years.

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Guest SkinsHokie Fan

Its pretty sad what these proffesors of ours say in college. What I love is how many students at Virginia Tech tend to be conservative and tend to answer back and make these proffesors look dumb

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Originally posted by Art

What I find encouraging is when people like this are confronted with the truth, they can often find their true political slant. Of the eight, all eight are Democrats. One is working for a Senator in Washington next week. Another wants to be President and is running for the state house in a year. Of the eight, all liberals, only my sister and two of my sister-in-law's friends are actually liberals. The rest just liked what their professors said and will be card carrying members of the right in two years.

Youre making a huge leap from 8 people who obviously havent spent enough time studying structures of world bodies to liberals being ignorant about the power structures of other nations. How can you say the same isnt true about 8 conservatives from a christian college? College students today are too shielded from what really happens in the world.

This stuff are things my friends and I knew as freshmen in college, and we were from all parts of the political spectrum, including liberal.

My advice, get each a subscription to an internation periodical. I would recommend the Economist.

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Storm,

It's actually you who's made the leap that I said liberals are ignorant of the power structures of other nations. I said these eight are liberals by conditioning. I said nothing about all liberals. These eight haven't been exposed, you're right, to the way of things, which is all the more frightening, because, isn't that WHAT college is for in many ways?

Obviously their professors talk to them about political things. And yet, they've never really even been told what the U.N. is. They have been told it's good. Just. Right. To be respected. But, NEVER who's in it and how it works. And, all too often what it boils down to is liberalism tends to be attractive to people who hear the pretty words and caring slogans and lack any concept of what is really happening. And that's often how the indoctrination seems to be taking root on the college level.

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I can only speak from my personal experience, but in my life, when I was younger I "copied" my parents beliefs and was strickly conservative. I attended 3 different colleges and I was quite aware of what the UN was an a general idea of how it operated. I never found "liberalism" shoved down my throat. The few liberal ideas that I do have, I developed just from my own thinking... (like abortion and drugs, I look at it like prohibition, even if you make it illegal, it's still going to go on..)

My honest question would be, "who are we to say that a dictatorship is wrong?" Is the US the "world judge and jury" of everyone else?

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They should have learned about the UN and it's charter in high school. There minds should have formed an opinion about the UN years before the professors had the chance to mold there opinions for them.

I remember my father and grandfather drilling it into my head that the UN was bad for our country when I was a kid. They used to tell me the UN was the single biggest threat to our nation and that my generation would have to be wary and on guard. That we as a free nation should never let an outside body tell us what to do or how to do it.

Art, what about these 8 young peoples parents? Did you ask them what they learned from there parents before they even got to college?

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Code,

We're Americans. We all believe a dictatorship is wrong. So do the citizens of every freely elected society in the world. Hell, so do the people in countries with a dictator. They just can't really express themselves on the topic very easily.

Tommy,

I only know the parents of my sister and my sister-in-law her boyfriend. So, half. My parents were liberals -- though my mother has become a conservative now -- and my sister-in-law's parents are liberals -- though my father-in-law is a racist liberal which seems odd -- and the boyfriend's parents are conservatives.

My father was a political animal. A card-carrying Democrat proud of his campaign donations that got a personalized thank you from Bill Clinton. He was intelligent and worked for the federal government. And yet, I don't know that I recall a time he ever spoke to me or my sister about the inner workings of the U.N. In fact, I don't think he ever mentioned the U.N.

I don't know the history of the other parents as well, obviously, but it strikes me that none of them would have really touched on that particular topic either.

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My father is and my grandfather was die hard democrats. My grandfather was even elected mayor of a small city in CT. He was also the towns treasurer for many years. He was also the pres. and vice pres and treasurer for the local AHEPA which is a greek american group of buiseness and political leaders. He knew Tsongas and Dukakis very well and had them over to the house and had pictures of him with them all over his office. Having said this, maybe my family was just a little more politically aware then the average family. I still believe the parents had a hand in molding there opinions about the UN before the professors got at them.

Now back to what I think is your original point. How could they not know about the UN and it's workings strike me as unusual. I wonder if this is a regonal thing or if it is rampant across the nation.

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That was basically the point, yes Tommy. It's terrifying that they are so utterly clueless. They are apt to respond on taxes that progressive taxation is a founding principle of the country too :).

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Actually, the awareness and knowledge of many of our college kids are astounding. Some of the things students said and failed to know about just made me shudder at the end of the day. Not knowing how the UN is set up should not be a surprise though. What's surprising is how many kids don't even know who the present VP of the US is or how our legislative or judicial system operates... and I'm talking about the basics that I remember learning in grade school or at School House Rock on Saturday mornings. This isn't unique to liberals and democrats either. THe ignorance is pervasive across ideologies.

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Clueless knows no political affiliation, compelling as some anecdotal evidence may be.

My parents are both solid liberals and yes, I knew all about the UN before I got to college. :rolleyes:

Just curious. Of these eight scholars, how many were history or poly sci majors?

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My late Grandfather was a GOP senator for 24 years. Had pics of himself with several Presidents. (My Uncle now has his seat and is on his second term.) When my father found out I'd become a Libertarian, he shook his head and muttered, "Where did I go wrong?"

Then I married a hardcore Democrat who had worked on Clinton's gubernatorial campaign, and had pics of herself with Bill and Hillary. (Her grandmother, a devout Dem as well, was pretty worried about her marrying into a Republican family.) Well, we both work and make close to the same amount of $, so she (as well as I) got a very rude awakening when tax time came around - we got socked with around 2 1/2 grand thanks to the marriage penalty. When she complained and said she couldn't understand why we had to pay more just because we were married, I got to remind her that the GOP house proposed eliminating the marriage penalty and her idol Willie blocked it as a tax break for the rich. Wow, school teachers and computer programmers are rich. Who knew?

Then, we wanted to build a house on some property her other grandmother gave us. The township it's in is run by Dems and has been for decades. Anyway, it took us 3 friggin years before we were allowed to start building, thanks to all the permits and new requirements and obstacles they kept throwing our way. After coughing up several thousand dollars to pay engineers and surveyors for some of the most ridiculous stuff, I think she has finally lost faith in big government. (I suppose if she were ever to try and start her own business, that would be the final nail in the coffin, so to speak.)

My mother was an English teacher in Montgomery County. After years of hearing the hardcore Dems she worked with spout the usual propoganda about class warfare, she casually reminded one of them that if any of them had money in a mutual fund they were paying taxes on capital gains. The staunchest Dem of the bunch came up to her later to ask her what exactly a capital gain was - after months of just blindly railing against Bush 41 for proposing a cut in the capital gains tax....

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Henry,

The answer is yes. One was computer science. Three others biology, actually four, if you count my sister. The other three were Political Science and all three have political aspirations.

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Originally posted by Art

Henry,

The answer is yes. One was computer science. Three others biology, actually four, if you count my sister. The other three were Political Science and all three have political aspirations.

I hope they take some history classes before they get into politics. We know about all of this in my junior and senior year in college.

Our future looks real bright if this group runs it :doh:

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Originally posted by SkinsHokie Fan

Its pretty sad what these proffesors of ours say in college. What I love is how many students at Virginia Tech tend to be conservative and tend to answer back and make these proffesors look dumb

One of the more interesting conversations I've ever had occurred last summer, when I was on my way back to the U.S. after having gone to England to see my girlfriend.

On my way back, I had a lengthy layover at Atlanta's Hartsfield International Airport and ended up striking up a dialogue with a young French gentleman who was attending Virginia Tech's engineering school and was on his way back to Blacksburg, after having visited his girlfriend in France for the summer. After the initial queries regarding our names and where we were headed, the conversation turned to politics, and I was (pleasantly) surprised by what he had to say.

"Sometimes, when I go back to France, I feel so out of place," he said. He continued: "France has become a country where the government is expected to be a big nanny to all the people and all the people's problems. It's also become a country where standing up to bullies is not considered good anymore. I look at the government there, and I just shake my head. They'll bend over backwards for some of the worst people you can imagine... terrorists, people like Yasser Arafat. I don't understand that. It's strange because I think most French people are more afraid of George W. Bush than they are of Osama Bin Laden! Like I said, I'm mystified by it all. All I know is, I'm staying here. I like this country!"

I remember thinking to myself at the time: "The fact that this guy is an engineering major probably has something to do with his level-headed view of things. If he were in the humanities, he'd probably be telling me right now how terrible Bush and America are, how we'd brought 9/11 on ourselves, etc., etc., etc. And I should know. I once was a humanities major! But when one is in the hard sciences, like engineering, it becomes more difficult to massage the facts to one's own liking, as one can do in the humanities, where interpretation is so key."

However, maybe the sheer fact that he was a Hokie had something to do with it, eh, SHF? ;)

Originally posted by Art

Only my sister even knew five countries had permanent veto power, but she didn't know which countries, as she was certain we weren't there but Germany was, "because the rest of the world hates us and would never let us {the U.S. be on the Security Council}."

Relatedly, I'd heard that the old Soviet Union was (inexplicably) granted two votes on the United Nations' Security Council. Can anyone confirm or refute this?
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That kind of ignorance is a shame. Not a shocker to see the science majors poorly informed, they just spent 4 years tunnel-visioned into their respective disciplines. I would expect within a couple of years after graduation they'll become more aware. I'm surprised to find that poly sci majors can get a degree without taking classes on world institutions, but that's just me.

However, that ignorance of course knows no ideological boundaries. For those anxious to draw some kind of negative conclusion about liberals, refresh my memory please on how well presidential candidate George W. Bush did when questioned about current world leaders. Not very impressive for a man who aspired to the presidency.

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well....we'll see......my sister, who happens to be exceptionally bright....attended the recently famous Michigan University as as an undergraduate in the engineering dept. I was on a staff at the time conducting Bosnia Operations. When we got together at Xmas and other Holidays she lectured me using asserions about CURRENT events as well as historical events that were completely out of whack with reality. When challenged, her duty response was "this is what professor so and so who is an authority in the field says".........ignorance is one thing....deleiberate obfuscation and manipulation is another.....

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I don't own the Denali yet, Candy.

The car ride itself was the boyfriend of my sister-in-law and myself. After the marathon I had the opportunity to continue the conversation with a group of friends who had come up to support the effort and it was enlightening.

I would only really want to ever be in the car with you and Blondie and sort out the details later, if you know what I mean :).

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We're Americans. We all believe a dictatorship is wrong. So do the citizens of every freely elected society in the world. Hell, so do the people in countries with a dictator. They just can't really express themselves on the topic very easily.

I'm an American and I don't believe dictatorship is wrong.

Benevolent dictatorships, in fact, can both take care of their citizens and be highly efficient, something a democracy by definition cannot do. Take the government of Monaco, for example.

If you need an organization to be efficient (clearly that's not a goal of the US government), you want unity of command. Our military is a great example -- not a democracy. Our democracy is designed to be slow and inefficient to protect the country from power-mad politicians (Hillary?) making radical changes overnight.

Most dictatorships today, of course, are not benevolent. North Korea, Cuba, the Hashemite Kingdom -- these are more like personality cults than dictatorships, but still. It's not the nature of a dictatorship that makes it bad, it's the nature of the dictator.

So a good dictatorship can be much better than a good democracy, but a bad dictatorship is 10,000 times worse than a bad democracy. That's why we're lucky that George Washington declined to be crowned king of America. By now, we'd surely have the worst of his decendents wearing the crown.

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