People rise up against the Taliban

[MrMarcus1914]

Pakistani military, villagers battle Taliban militants

• <LI class=cnnhiliteheader>Story Highlights
  
• Villagers form militia after Friday's suicide attack on mosque that opposed Taliban
  
• Militia, with Pakistan military's support, say Taliban is surrounded in one village
  
• At least 14 Taliban militants killed since fighting began Saturday, official says
  

ISLAMABAD, Pakistan (CNN) -- Hundreds of Pakistani villagers who have formed an anti-Taliban militia battled for the fourth day Tuesday to remove the Islamic militants from a region of northwest Pakistan.

The Pakistani military is supporting the militia, or "lashkar," in Upper Dir district on the request of local officials and tribal elders, military spokesman Maj. Gen. Athar Abbas told CNN.

Outraged over a suicide attack on a local mosque during Friday prayers, about 400 residents formed the militia early Saturday and began battling Taliban militants. The attack on the anti-Taliban mosque killed at least 40 people and wounded 80 others.

The militia has surrounded Taliban fighters in Shat Kas, a village where the Taliban have local support, according to officials in the Upper Dir district. The Taliban have dug into bunkers and are putting up a strong resistance, he said.

The fighting marks the first major battle between the residents of northwest Pakistan and Taliban militants.

At least 14 Taliban had been killed and four villagers had been wounded as of Sunday evening, according to local administrator Atif-ur-Rehman.

The militia has burned houses thought to be sheltering the militants, and both the militia and Taliban fighters are using heavy weapons, including rocket launchers and anti-aircraft weapons, Rehman said.

Pakistani military helicopters were called in Monday and Tuesday to strike Taliban positions from the air, local officials said. Abbas confirmed that the gunships were used to shell specific militant targets in Upper Dir, on the request of local officials.

There is a long history of Taliban presence in the area, including foreign fighters in leadership roles, local officials said.

Upper Dir is a part of the Swat Valley, where the Pakistani military has waged a monthlong operation against Taliban militants. The district had not been part of the ongoing military offensive until this week.

The United Nations has said an estimated 2 million Pakistanis have been displaced by fighting between the Pakistani military and Taliban militants.

Suspected Pakistani Taliban militants have carried out several attacks on civilian targets across Pakistan in recent weeks. The Taliban claimed responsibility for a suicide attack that killed 27 people in Lahore on May 27.

The militants threatened to continue attacking cities in Pakistan until the military ends its operations against Taliban militants. As a result, Pakistani authorities have increased security in Islamabad, Pakistan's capital city.

The military operation continued Tuesday with Pakistani forces taking up positions in the Bannu district of North West Frontier Province, Abbas said. A curfew has been established in Bannu as military forces shell militant positions along the route that leads through neighboring Waziristan to the Afghan-Pakistan border, local officials said.

The Jani Khel tribe of Bannu is suspected of facilitating the recent kidnappings of Razmak Cadet College students, as well as ongoing rocket and roadside bombing attacks, Pakistani military sources said.

There are concerns that the tribe may also be planning more attacks in North West Frontier Province, which has suffered several bombings on civilian targets in recent weeks, including Friday's mosque bombing in Upper Dir.

On Tuesday, a bomb exploded at a major hotel in Peshawar, the capital of North West Frontier Province, killing at least five people, the city's district coordination officer said.

CNN's Ingrid Formanek and Journalist Nasir Habib contributed to this report.

All AboutPakistan • The Taliban

Is this a result of Obama's Ciaro speech?

[SkinsHokieFan]

This happened a few days ago. And no its not a result of the Cairo speech its a result of people's homes being destroyed by the Taliban and the Pakistani army finally figuring out a way to win over the local population

Here is some news from today

Pakistan is in the middle of a civil war now. I miss the Swat of 10 years ago

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2009/06/09/AR2009060900495.html?hpid=artslot

Bomb Kills at Least 11 at Pakistan Hotel

By Griff Witte

Washington Post Foreign Service

Tuesday, June 9, 2009 2:47 PM

ISLAMABAD, Pakistan, June 9 -- A massive truck bomb exploded outside a luxury hotel in northwestern Pakistan's provincial capital Tuesday night, killing 11 people and injuring at least 50. The attack marked the latest salvo by insurgents who have vowed to avenge an army offensive in the nearby Swat Valley.

The blast occurred directly outside Peshawar's Pearl Continental Hotel, a local landmark popular among foreigners. The bomb, estimated to contain more than 1,000 pounds of explosives, caused substantial damage to one side of the hotel and destroyed more than 30 vehicles.

Among the wounded were at least three foreigners, police officials said. Their nationalities could not be immediately established.

U.S. Embassy spokesman Lou Fintor said there was no indication that any Americans had been injured or killed.

The Pearl Continental, part of a chain of five-star Pakistani hotels, is a gathering spot for foreign visitors to Peshawar and for well-to-do Pakistanis. It is located in one of the most heavily fortified areas of the city, set near a cluster of government buildings.

The State Department has been negotiating to buy the hotel and convert it into a consular building in Peshawar, which is the northwest's largest city and capital of the North-West Frontier Province.

Pakistani television networks broadcast images of dazed hotel guests and workers evacuating the building, many covered in dust and some with bloodied faces.

Police reported that the attacker drove up to the rear entrance of the hotel and opened fire on security guards manning the gate. Moments later, the blast shook the hotel.

Insurgents have launched a series of attacks in Pakistan in recent weeks that spokesmen for the radical Islamist Taliban movement have said are revenge for the army's offensive in Swat. The most deadly attack killed 30 people in the eastern city of Lahore and targeted both a police headquarters and an office of Pakistan's Inter-Services Intelligence agency. Peshawar shopping markets and a movie theater have also been targeted.

The army claims to have retaken nearly all of Swat, just over a month after its offensive began with the goal of rooting out Taliban forces who had overrun the scenic valley.

Government officials have indicated that an operation in the Taliban haven of South Waziristan is next, and on Tuesday the army shelled targets near that mountainous tribal region.

[Henry]

I don't know if I'd give Obama any credit for this. Not his speech anyway. Perhaps the ramped up action in Pakistan has forced the locals to pick a side, and maybe Obama encouraging the ramping up gets some indirect credit.

I don't know though. Perhaps one of our resident experts could shed some light on this. (EDIT: I see SHF is already on it. )

[SkinsHokieFan]

I don't know if I'd give Obama any credit for this. Not his speech anyway. Perhaps the ramped up action in Pakistan has forced the locals to pick a side, and maybe Obama doing the ramping up gets some indirect credit.

I don't know though. Perhaps one of our resident experts could shed some light on this.

This is essentially almost 2 years in the making, since the Red Mosque crises in summer 2007.

Eventually the people are going to figure out the Taliban for who they are. Bombings in Islamabad, Lahore, Karachi, Peshewar and the 3 million refugees who have been forced to flee have created this.

The drone attacks only worked as an "excuse" for so long for the Taliban. Now they have some serious blood on their hands

[Burgold]

Even if Obama deserves some of the credit... I would rather give the credit and support to the Pakistani who are doing the right things and risking their lives. It is a very hard thing to do.

Not taking anything away from the speech or other efforts, but this is what I have always asked from the Palestinians. Even if it fails, some effort to self police and stop the terrorists.

[SkinsHokieFan]

Even if Obama deserves some of the credit... I would rather give the credit and support to the Pakistani who are doing the right things and risking their lives. It is a very hard thing to do.

Not taking anything away from the speech or other efforts, but this is what I have always asked from the Palestinians. Even if it fails, some effort to self police and stop the terrorists.

Really the key is that Pushtons are now fighting Talibanized Pushtons

The punjabi's that populate the army are as foreign to the locals in Swat as Americans are.

I am hopeful, but we'll see how tribal loyalties end up shaping things

[Bang]

SHF if I never said it before, your insight on these matters is very welcome. I take a lot out of what you have to say.

~Bang

[SkinsHokieFan]

SHF if I never said it before, your insight on these matters is very welcome. I take a lot out of what you have to say.

~Bang

Appreciate it. But my thank my dad and me overhearing his phone conversations

[MrMarcus1914]

Really the key is that Pushtons are now fighting Talibanized Pushtons

The punjabi's that populate the army are as foreign to the locals in Swat as Americans are.

I am hopeful, but we'll see how tribal loyalties end up shaping things

Now see that's the wild card in my opinion. Can we sway tribes to adhere to our policies?

[SkinsHokieFan]

Now see that's the wild card in my opinion. Can we sway tribes to adhere to our policies?

We have very little to do with this. Quite frankly we will have very little if any to do with any success in Pakistan because of the tribes

I have mentioned it before and I'll mention it again, these are the most ignorant people on earth (mainly due to the British never putting schools up there) who still don't realize what geopolitical game they are a part of.

To think that they will adhere to what we want them to do is laughable.

The only way will be if their interests just happen to align with ours like it did during the Afghan-Soviet War

[thehogs]

you stole my thread!

http://www.extremeskins.com/showthread.php?t=289488

:saber:

certainly a positive story

[MrMarcus1914]

We have very little to do with this. Quite frankly we will have very little if any to do with any success in Pakistan because of the tribes

I have mentioned it before and I'll mention it again, these are the most ignorant people on earth (mainly due to the British never putting schools up there) who still don't realize what geopolitical game they are a part of.

To think that they will adhere to what we want them to do is laughable.

The only way will be if their interests just happen to align with ours like it did during the Afghan-Soviet War

And we all know what happened after that. We supplied the Musha Adene (sp) and then this guy Osama Bin Laden decided that eventhough America helped his faction in the Afghan-Soviet war to kill almost 3000 people on 9-11. How do we stop that from happening?

As for the ignorance, I can see that. But British policy was oppressive through out the middle east. I wouldn't say they are ignorant in that case. People do a lot of things when they are oppressed. It's a couping mechanism.

[SkinsHokieFan]

And we all know what happened after that. We supplied the Musha Adene (sp) and then this guy Osama Bin Laden decided that eventhough America helped his faction in the Afghan-Soviet war to kill almost 3000 people on 9-11. How do we stop that from happening?

As for the ignorance, I can see that. But British policy was oppressive through out the middle east. I wouldn't say they are ignorant in that case. People do a lot of things when they are oppressed. It's a couping mechanism.

For the first part, yes we funded the muhjadeen but really never followed it up (Several good books talk about this including Ghost Wars and Charlie Wilson's War) leaving a vacuum in Afghanistan

In terms of "stopping it" It'll take 50-100 years of educated a population that has never been educated before to the point where many do not remember their birthdays

As for point 2, it really isn't oppression. Until the Taliban showed up the people of the Swat Valley minded their business and fed tourists like myself. However they were also very uneducated, shockingly so, and quite honestly not interested in much else but where the next meal comes from. I don't think people can understand the lack of education that is there until they see it first hand

[MrMarcus1914]

For the first part, yes we funded the muhjadeen but really never followed it up (Several good books talk about this including Ghost Wars and Charlie Wilson's War) leaving a vacuum in Afghanistan

In terms of "stopping it" It'll take 50-100 years of educated a population that has never been educated before to the point where many do not remember their birthdays

As for point 2, it really isn't oppression. Until the Taliban showed up the people of the Swat Valley minded their business and fed tourists like myself. However they were also very uneducated, shockingly so, and quite honestly not interested in much else but where the next meal comes from. I don't think people can understand the lack of education that is there until they see it first hand

Would you equate the "lack of education" in Afghanistan, with the lack of "educated people" in the inner city? I am trying to have some idea of the situation in Pakistan with something? I can undertand people that only worry about the next meal, or the next pay check. I find it hard to believe that the people didn't educated themselves in some way though.

[JimboDaMan]

We have very little to do with this. Quite frankly we will have very little if any to do with any success in Pakistan because of the tribes

I have mentioned it before and I'll mention it again, these are the most ignorant people on earth (mainly due to the British never putting schools up there) who still don't realize what geopolitical game they are a part of.

To think that they will adhere to what we want them to do is laughable.

The only way will be if their interests just happen to align with ours like it did during the Afghan-Soviet War

I couldn't imagine them doing something because its what we want them to do. But I can imagine them getting sick of atrocities and wanting to kick some Taliban arse, which just happens to be what we want.

But in the past the Pakistani army has been largely ineffectual, so these Taliban atrocities had the desired effect of keeping the population mostly under control. My understanding is that the military has been more forceful and effective lately and this might have fostered some hope that the tribes can fight the Taliban without risking retribution. I'm not sure what caused Pakistan's army to suddenly grow a spine but its long overdue. I know there was a change in government late last year, just like there was here, so I suppose both these new administrations might have had some effect. Obama rattled a few sabers with regards to Pakistan during one of the debates (for which McCain soundly berated him) so he may have ramped up the pressure to make some progress there.

[Baculus]

This reminds me of the "red on red" violence in Iraq before the formation of the Awakening Councils.

It's about time this started to happen.