Redskins Blog: Coach John Palermo Talks Haynesworth, Orakpo, Versatility

[icbmayday]

Cant wait to see the D line in action

[darrelgreenie]

You have to remember that the argument is that Orakpo will be at SAM, which leaves the left DE side weak...

The fullback could help out on Haynesworth knowing that a weak Daniels is rushing and can be controlled easily by either the RT, Guard or a dropped back center with Orakpo being blocked other linemen and even a TE and/or RB if need be. This leaves a TE and /or RB and 2 receivers left to burn the defense.

Quick hitters will kill us

You will live or die by the blitz...mostly die.

Dude, i don't know where to get the actual stats but we sent an extra player (blitzed) more then any other team last year.

They said it during the Steelers game.

So Blitzing is already part of our game plan.

We'll just be much more effective this year.

Also i think you are underestimating Albert H.

If our DTs Griffin, Golston and Monty at times command double teams, only a crazy DC would single block Albert H.

The dude pretty much demands at least a double team

http://www.nfl.com/videos/nfl-free-agency/09000d5d80efbbcb/Haynesworth-s-impact

this is what happens when you single cover AH:

http://www.nfl.com/videos/nfl-free-agency/09000d5d80eb165e/2008-Best-of-Albert-Haynesworth

I think your pass protection count is off.... there are 5 OL, if 2 block Haynesworth that leaves 3 to block our other 3 DL without help which is a win for someone along the DL and that still leaves Orakpo matched up on a TE or RB

or like you say they block Orakpo with a OL then that puts our LDE with a match-up with a TE or RB which a clear strength mis-match our LDE especially Daniels are just too strong for TE/RB and would push them into the backfield with ease

Look at it this way:

In Blache's scheme now more then the before our SAM will have the same responsibilties as a 3-4 OLB and Orakpo played some 3-4 OLB in college and was scouted as a OLB/DE during the draft

Path to the Draft Mike Mayock/Charles Casserly/Charles Davis discuss:

http://www.nfl.com/videos/nfl-draft/09000d5d80fad51f/Where-will-Orakpo-play

Combine workout:

http://www.nfl.com/videos/nfl-videos/09000d5d80f34387/2009-Combine-workout-Brian-Orakpo

Analysis

Positives: Good height and upper-body build. ... Plays with his hand down, but stands up at times. ... Easily gets off blocks of offensive tackles to make a play in the hole. ... Can also hold his ground well against larger tackles. ... Has good backfield awareness, watching for misdirection, cutbacks and bootlegs. ... Closes on the quarterback well and secures the tackle. ... Shows adequate fluidity dropping on zone blitzes to handle short-area zone coverage as a 3-4 rush linebacker.

http://www.nfl.com/combine/profiles/brian-orakpo?id=71423#player-profile-tab-set-1:player-profile-tab-analysis

[RandyHolt]

Great he will play DE. Then we are back to, who again is our SAM? I will venture a guess and say we are the only team in the league without a SAM. No offense to Blades Campbell Wilson and crew, but I think we should consider Washington at league minimum. I suspect we will be foolish to have him at LB already. History says a guy learning a new position will struggle, let alone a rookie playing in his first year at his natural position.

oh my gosh oh my gosh we are all freaking out. No we are not actually. Its called having a discussion.

[Mad Mike]

Great read on how personnel choices are made on defense. But I don't know where you people are getting the idea it means Orakpo will stay at end.

Half the story was about how deep we are on the line and how thin at LB. The only thing he said about 'Po is that his position on every down is undecided.

[littleskins]

You don't really think that opposing teams are going to assign their RBs or even TEs, alone to a 270 lb blitzing LB, especially when they know they are setting up to pass, do you?

I don't know but if I am passing and see Daniels at DE and Orakpo at SAM, I think that it is an easy choice as to who to concentrate more on pass blocking wise.

You must have forgotten about Hanesworth in the middle. I don't think you double a blitzing LB and leave the most dominating DT in the game one-on-one.

[Mad Mike]

You must have forgotten about Hanesworth in the middle. I don't think you double a blitzing LB and leave the most dominating DT in the game one-on-one.

Very true but everyone is really forgetting about Carter.

The man is going to be a beast this year now that teams will need to focus on Haynsworth and 'Po. His biggest problem in the past has been lack of pressure from anywhere else on the line. The best DE in the world cant do it all on his own. Carter may not be the best but he is damn good and he will finally get a chance to show it.

I don't know what some people have been smoking but I've been watching Titans games on NFL network whenever they come up and Haynsworth gets double teamed on almost every down and STILL pushes the pocket back and makes a ton of plays. He's a force you just cant ignore and he makes everyone around him better.

[MikeBass]

i didn't say we'd be the vikings, i said we'd be formidable, and that should be true. Haynesworth definitely can not be *consistently* stopped by a lineman and a FB. there's an NFL films feature on him that shows him, time and time again, beating such double-teams, and even G+C double teams. obviously he's not unblockable, but saying that "a FB and a lineman should suffice" is way understating his effect on both lines.

now, whether he plays as well here as he did in Tennessee is yet to be seen, but he's capable of frequently beating any double-team thrown his way. in fact, i recall seeing some footage of him tossing O-linemen like dolls to beat a TRIPLE team for a sack. don't downplay Haynesworth just to make a point about Orakpo at DE vs. Orakpo at SAM.

That's not a downplay on Haynesworth, he a very good player and I hope that he becomes a great one but I'm not going to up play him either because he is in the Burgandy and Gold now. We do that every season. Last season we were supposed to have the second coming of Mann and Manley and now it is the same excitement with Haynesworth's arrival. I am excited also but I also try to stay grounded and hope that we get the best out of Haynesworth as possible by putting players beside him who will make him most effective.

I just think that Daniels/Haynesworth/Griffin/ Carter is a step down from Orakpo/Haynesworth/Griff/Carter and the latter can be used as a more "formidable" tandem, are basically every down linemen and offer the most help to our all-pro..

I know that we are lacking at SAM also but trying to get a two-fer from our rook may be asking for a bit much.

[wwSEANd]

I just think that Daniels/Haynesworth/Griffin/ Carter is a step down from Orakpo/Haynesworth/Griff/Carter and the latter can be used as a more "formidable" tandem, are basically every down linemen and offer the most help to our all-pro..

I know that we are lacking at SAM also but trying to get a two-fer from our rook may be asking for a bit much.

well, pessimism (well-founded in experience though it may be) regarding Redskins FA signings aside, Haynesworth *IS* the most dominant DT in the game. that alone helps our line a lot, especially considering our main weakness was interior pressure.

also, you mention the failed JT55 experiment last year, and i must admit i bit on that one- i thought it was gonna be a sack party all season long. i learned something important, though: LE and RE are not the same position. our LE is asked to do defend the run against much more stout opposition than our RE. even though Orakpo is much bigger and stronger than JT55 was, it's well documented that defending the run is not his strong suit. i, for one, don't want to see our end getting blown off the line all season long again.

fortunately, he's got a good coach and good veterans to show him the ropes, so i think he'll improve in that regard rather quickly. but maybe it's a good thing he's not being asked to stop the run against the NFCE's rather bruising O-lines right away.

and, again: anything that gets Orakpo more (and earlier) playing time is a good thing.

[theboomking]

Carter is getting older and has had double digit sacks in only 2 years/8. I still think that next year we get a younger prototype LDE, a true SAM, and Orakpo starts at RDE instead of Carter.

[Koolblue13]

Thanks to a great run stopping D line. Daniels, Monty, Griff, AC, we should see more 3rd and longs.

3rd and long D line, Orakpo, Daniels, Big Al, AC. That is the pass rush on passing downs we have lacked.

We also have enough talent to rotate these guys pretty well and bring in everybody very fresh.

[MikeBass]

I think that we are depending too much on Daniels still being able to handle that starting DE position. We are talking about a 37 year old who haven't played for a full season and who we were wanting to get rid of even before he got injured. If he fails and if we continue to practice the rook mainly at OLB, we are going to be up the creek.

When we drafted Orakpo as fast as we did, I really think that it was to solidy the DLine by using him at the DE position.

[bulldog]

Daniels is a situational player at 35. He is strong at the point of attack and should be the run stuffing presence for the Redskins in 2009 that he has been previously. He and Renaldo Wynn are additional contributors the DL didn't have in 2008.

Palermo noted that the Redskins are looking at the reps of Andre Carter at RDE as well as the situation at LDE.

He said that Carter ideally should get 50 reps but was posting 65 last season because there was no other veteran presence to use in rotation there.

Now the team has that depth.

My only concern is that the team does in fact get Orakpo acclimated at DE and we don't spend an entire season with him at SAM because the club simply doesn't have any other options there on the outside.

Ideally, the Redskins need to acquire a veteran SAM to provide some depth to the LB corps. Robert Thomas and HB Blades as backups are better suited to working inside at MLB or in Thomas' case at WLB.

I don't think you will see Glenn or Henson contribute in 2009. In fact neither may make the final roster.

[Est.1974]

Daniels is a situational player at 35. He is strong at the point of attack and should be the run stuffing presence for the Redskins in 2009 that he has been previously. He and Renaldo Wynn are additional contributors the DL didn't have in 2008.

Palermo noted that the Redskins are looking at the reps of Andre Carter at RDE as well as the situation at LDE.

He said that Carter ideally should get 50 reps but was posting 65 last season because there was no other veteran presence to use in rotation there.

Now the team has that depth.

My only concern is that the team does in fact get Orakpo acclimated at DE and we don't spend an entire season with him at SAM because the club simply doesn't have any other options there on the outside.

Ideally, the Redskins need to acquire a veteran SAM to provide some depth to the LB corps. Robert Thomas and HB Blades as backups are better suited to working inside at MLB or in Thomas' case at WLB.

I don't think you will see Glenn or Henson contribute in 2009. In fact neither may make the final roster.

Having the rotation at end should be the provide the opportunities to get Orakpo in at DE. However, you've nailed the issue in that we may have no suitable alternative at SAM to get him there.

I see another veteran SAM as a must prior to the season. Orakpo, Chris Wilson plus some rookies seems a risky strategy if we intend to go that way

[Morneblade]

Having the rotation at end should be the provide the opportunities to get Orakpo in at DE. However' date=' you've nailed the issue in that we may have no suitable alternative at SAM to get him there.

I see another veteran SAM as a must prior to the season. Orakpo, Chris Wilson plus some rookies seems a risky strategy if we intend to go that way[/quote']

I could live with Blades at SAM. I could live with someone like Greg Ellis at SAM. I'd love to see Orakpo however not be used there at all. However I dont think we'll go after a vet at this point and the experiment will continue.

[Dr Drunkenstein]

One thing to consider........Orakpo played more LB at Texas than you guys realize. I think we all know that every 3rd down, Brian will be at DE, but I've seen some people express concern in this thread about whether he can pressure the QB at LB on 1st & 2nd down if need be. The Texas DC would use Brian at LB on 1st & 2nd down sometimes as a vehicle to move him around and to come at the QB from different directions in a pass happy conference - I expect him to be used in a similar fashion in 09.

I also think you guys will be surprised at how well Rak stops the run. You can hit up last year's game vs. Oklahoma on you tube, Brain was matched up with with OU's LOT Loadholt (1st round pick this past draft as well) and he embarassed him. Not only did he get to Sam Bradford early and often, but he ate up the Sooner RBs and kept them to under 50 yards rushing. As someone who has seen every college game Rak has ever played, I would prefer him getting some reps at LB in every NFL game.....with AH eating up interioir linemen, Brian will be all the more effective when coming at the offense from mutiple locations.

[Morneblade]

One thing to consider........Orakpo played more LB at Texas than you guys realize. I think we all know that every 3rd down, Brian will be at DE, but I've seen some people express concern in this thread about whether he can pressure the QB at LB on 1st & 2nd down if need be. The Texas DC would use Brian at LB on 1st & 2nd down sometimes as a vehicle to move him around and to come at the QB from different directions in a pass happy conference - I expect him to be used in a similar fashion in 09.

I also think you guys will be surprised at how well Rak stops the run. You can hit up last year's game vs. Oklahoma on you tube, Brain was matched up with with OU's LOT Loadholt (1st round pick this past draft as well) and he embarassed him. Not only did he get to Sam Bradford early and often, but he ate up the Sooner RBs and kept them to under 50 yards rushing. As someone who has seen every college game Rak has ever played, I would prefer him getting some reps at LB in every NFL game.....with AH eating up interioir linemen, Brian will be all the more effective when coming at the offense from mutiple locations.

I think you misunderstood about our concerns. I am quite sure he will do fine at rushing the passer standing up. In fact he might do better, due to the fact that he's going against TE's. It's him having to COVER TE's and RB's out of the backfield that is concerning. As a SAM in a 4-3, you're not going to be rushing the passer as much as a 4-3 De or a 3-4 OLB. That is the concern.

[Dr Drunkenstein]

I think you misunderstood about our concerns. I am quite sure he will do fine at rushing the passer standing up. In fact he might do better, due to the fact that he's going against TE's. It's him having to COVER TE's and RB's out of the backfield that is concerning. As a SAM in a 4-3, you're not going to be rushing the passer as much as a 4-3 De or a 3-4 OLB. That is the concern.

I think that issue is a bit overblown. First off, if it is someone like Westbrook coming out of the backfield, pretty much any LB is screwed.

As for TEs, I've seen Orakpo cover & hang with some talented ones. I remember him covering Pettigrew from Oklahoma State (who was just taken as the 20th overall pick) and holding his own. Does this mean he won't have some hiccups against quality NFL tight ends? Of course not......but the experience and the ability is there........

[Vicious]

I am so excited that we have Orakpo, hopefully haynesworth stays healthy so we can see lots of Orakpo in the backfield

[Morneblade]

I think that issue is a bit overblown. First off, if it is someone like Westbrook coming out of the backfield, pretty much any LB is screwed.

As for TEs, I've seen Orakpo cover & hang with some talented ones. I remember him covering Pettigrew from Oklahoma State (who was just taken as the 20th overall pick) and holding his own. Does this mean he won't have some hiccups against quality NFL tight ends? Of course not......but the experience and the ability is there........

Experience? How often was he required to pass cover? I'm thinking hardly at all. So no, he does not have the experience. Now, that being said, IF he was drafted to play nothing but SAM then you have to take your lumps while he learns the position. He will get abused at points, he's a rookie. However if you plan on putting him at both SAM and DE, it's going to take him longer to learn both positions rather than one. This is not a situation where he is a 3-4 OLB. SAMs' blitz much less often that a 3-4 OLB because...........a OLB in a 3-4 isnt blitzing.

Then there is the learning curve of playing DE in the NFL. It's tough, most top picks that come in as rookies are........invisible. It takes 2-3 years for them to come into their own msot of the time. That and Orakpo was a RDE in college and is looking to be (at least for now) a LDE. Something else he is going to have to get used to. Going against the 330+ maulers he's going to see in the NFCE.

That is alot on his plate, to try and actually contribute something with all this crap going on.

[MikeBass]

I think that the coaching staff is focusing a lot on his athleticism, which he probably is for a DE but at SAM he'd be pretty large and may be clumsy at that position when trying to cover. Aaron Curry is the most athletic defensive player in the draft this season but you can't play him at safety just because you are in need of one.

Time after time, I have seen our DEs coming off the line chasing after RBs with the results being non-productive so it looks as though we are going to start by putting one at LB to begin with. The results should be pretty much the same because the guy is just going to be too quick coming off his breaks for a big guy to defend.

[SMU Redskin]

Whats the difference between Orakpo and DeMarcus Ware coming out of college and moving from DE to LB? Is it that the Cowboys run a 3-4? They're almost identical in terms of size, speed, etc.

[Thinking Skins]

I don't read it that way. I read it as Daniels is the first choice there, but if he can't go like they want him to, they may need to go to other options.

I also think they are looking at what Orakpo can do and see how best to fit him into our defense.

I think this is exactly it. I think its similar to what happened to Taylor last year. I think he may be a GREAT pass rusher who could be effective in other areas of our defense. He's not the same type of a player as Philip Daniels. And so while he may be a good player at LDE, putting him there may be limiting his abilities because he may be the type of player that can take a Brian Westbrook out of a game.

I don't know if it'll work or not, but I think one reason that he was rated so highly before the draft is because of what he did as a DE and the potential that his athletic ability gives him to create mismatches in the pros. I mean, this guy could probably be add a layer of zone blitzes to our defenses and start taking pics back for TDs like Harrison did in the Super Bowl.

[Thinking Skins]

Very true but everyone is really forgetting about Carter.

The man is going to be a beast this year now that teams will need to focus on Haynsworth and 'Po. His biggest problem in the past has been lack of pressure from anywhere else on the line. The best DE in the world cant do it all on his own. Carter may not be the best but he is damn good and he will finally get a chance to show it.

I so agree with this. I think Carter may be the unsung hero this year just because we finally have other threats on the defensive line.

[Hitecr]

this is what happens when you single cover AH:

http://www.nfl.com/videos/nfl-free-agency/09000d5d80eb165e/2008-Best-of-Albert-Haynesworth

IT'S ALBERT HAYNESWORTH!!

[Zhouse]

We honestly don't know how good or bad he is in pass coverage. But we do have the depth in the secondary to mask that problem (if it does become a problem). I remember Horton playing close to the line a lot of times last year. He did blow some assignments but all in all did a good. The same can be said for Doughty. Moore has good recovery speed so I assume the coaches will test him out at SS.

It's never a bad thing for the coaches to try different looks....this is a bend don't break system and they play a lot of 1-1/zone mix. I hope Orakpo pans out as the hybrid player because it will give the coordinators more packages to confuse the offense and better depth to fight injuries.