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JLC- Holmgren on Campbell: 'Have Some Patience


gobigred

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I undoubtedly agree with the highlighted part of your post. I would like to see JC lead receivers more often. But... he can. He has shown that he can and the most contributing factor of that is his 7.6 YPA through weeks 1-8, and his 5.4 YPA through weeks 9-17.
Its more like 7.2ypa and if you take out the Detroit Game it drops down significantly, closer to his career average.
This once again demonstrates how the status of the offensive line coorelates to a QB's performance.

When JC has some resemblance of protection, he performs well and we get wins.

When JC has little to no protection he performs badly and we get losses.

Jason is going to have to get Wins when things aren't going well. Its called being clutch.

It should be easier this year, we don't have BAL and PIT on the schedule.

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Its more like 7.2ypa and if you take out the Detroit Game it drops down significantly, closer to his career average.

7.2 ypa is pretty solid.

Last year

P Manning 7.2 ypa

Cassel 7.2

Big Ben 7.0

McNabb 6.9

Eli 6.8

Favre 6.7

If he can keep that 7.2 ypa pace for 16 games, we might be ok

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The only fact I see is you trying to ostracize our line to the extent that there nothing more than statues standing around on the field' date=' JC had as much time as either Big Ben, Warner, Ryan, Cassell, ETC. and so on, what he didn't have was all day to throw which is what he actually needs to process what he sees down field.

As for the running game, when a QB has the ability to convert 3rd downs it allows the offense to continue to pound the running game and wear down a defense, which in turn helps to open up the running game, that is none existent with JC at the helm.

Their offensive line played better than ours, of coarse it had nothing to do with decision making by the QB right?

Until JC actually falls on his face and is benched you wont get it, and you probably wont after the fact either, I am tired of the same excuses over and over. So lets just agree that 2 rookie QB's went to to different teams which were both far worse off than our team was the previous season, both had to learn new offenses, with new head coaches, adjust to new players around them, all while trying to adjust to the speed and the nuances of the pro game, their task to succeed was a far tougher job than was JC's, yet they succeeded and JC failed, OK, I guess will call it a draw then.:doh:[/quote']

I dont think you read my posts thouroughly enough. I am not placing the blame solely on the line. IMO, its should get spread around evenly. Everyone is culpable on this team for not performing to the best of their ability.

Unlike you, I dont walk around with the blinders on thinking that the only serious problem we have on this team is a bad QB. And as long as we bench the guy that played average, made some mistakes, but never... I repeat this now... NEVER cost us a single game in 2008... we will be ok.

Sorry to break the news to you Hog, but guys like Manning and Brady dont fall off trees. There are a very small group of QB's that can take a team down the field with 1:30 left on the clock and scrape out a win. Thats reality.

Ryan cant do that consistantly. I dont think he has yet even... I dont know for sure. Here is what I do know.

Did you know that during the Atlanta Falcons Cinderella season, everytime Turner and the Falcons run game was shutdown, they lost. Count'em. In Atlanta's 5 losses, Turner put up 42, 56, 58, 81, and 61 yards (and 0, 0, 0, 2, and 1 TD's in those games).

The only other game where Turner had lowish numbers were in weeks 6 and 16 and Matt Ryan was not doing anything special in either one of those games. One was won with the leg of the kicker, and the other was won when Blaylock scooped up a Matt Ryan fumble (how ironic) in the end zone for the go ahead TD.

What does this tell us? It says that when teams have to sell out to stop the run, Ryan cant beat them by himself. I guess he's a bust... should be benched? No... I dont think so either. Its funny how winning hides shortcomings. Like they say. Winning cures everything. :)

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I don't want to argue against you here, but if someone can bring up that Jason Campbell was a midseason MVP candidate then it must also be brought up that analysts were pushing for Matt Ryan for MVP at the end of the year. Both were ridiculous. Turner was 2nd in rushing and TDs, plus they have John Abraham on the other side.

Ryan was also the 5th pick so its not like he came out nowhere.

But he certainly had clutch performances. He had the miracle against Chicago. He was key in clinching a playoff spot with an OT drive against the Bucs and had that crazy play leaping over defenders in the end zone against the Vikings[/u][/b].

Those are the type of plays that suggest leadership because the players around you want to fight for you. Now they don't win either of those games without Turner running the ball, but at least Ryan has already won big games in his career. To this point, Campbell hasn't won a single one.

Nonsense, Passizle. You are the person who argued that a QB cannot make his offensive line better.

Againsts the Bucs? You mean the 0 TD, 2 INT, 1 fumble lost performance in the same game where Turner got 152 on the ground? Yeah. Ryan was clutch.

Against the Vikes... Is that the same play that Ryan fumbled on and Blaylock scooped up for the win?

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I undoubtedly agree with the highlighted part of your post. I would like to see JC lead receivers more often. But... he can. He has shown that he can and the most contributing factor of that is his 7.6 YPA through weeks 1-8, and his 5.4 YPA through weeks 9-17.

This once again demonstrates how the status of the offensive line coorelates to a QB's performance.

When JC has some resemblance of protection, he performs well and we get wins.

When JC has little to no protection he performs badly and we get losses.

IMO, the decrease in YPA went down a lot after teams started playing most of their defense within 10 yds of the los. Isn't the WCO based on short passes and YAC? When JC had to make the short, quick throws, even the passes he would complete, a defender was always right there to make the tackle. JC got a lot of blame for throwing five yds. when we needed 7 for a first down but those were the routes that Zorn was calling expecting more YAC and it just wasn't there.

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Yes. No one was open so he scrambled and leaped over 3 defenders.

Fortune favors the bold.

Yeah... like Sellers on the goal line. Gimmie a break already. It was luck. Not to mention that the Vikes turned the ball over wat... like 5 or 6 times? And please read the edited post for your rebuttle on Ryan "clutch" playoff clinching performance.

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this is where ill completely disagree. who is his supporting cast? roddy white? i mean cmon. moss has had a better career than white has, and hes shown flashes of being way better than white could. moss is a very good receiver who in my opinion is limited by campbell. remember when brunell was on fire how ridiculous moss was.

and ill agree turner had a better season than portis, but turner had to get to the red zone first, he didnt do it all on his own.

our offensive starters are just as good as the falcons, sans the QB spot.

I think Moss is slightly over-rated. He has great speed and a double move. Thats it. He does not have great hands. He does not have fluid hips. He does not have good body control or the size to fight for a ball in space. He cant block well.

Moss has had one single great season in his career. Dont make him bigger than he is.

IMO, Moss is more suited to be a slot man and return guy. He would be very successful in a role like Curtis from the Iggles, or Welker from the Pats.

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I think Moss is slightly over-rated. He has great speed and a double move. Thats it. He does not have great hands. He does not have fluid hips. He does not have good body control or the size to fight for a ball in space. He cant block well.

Moss has had one single great season in his career. Dont make him bigger than he is.

IMO, Moss is more suited to be a slot man and return guy. He would be very successful in a role like Curtis from the Iggles, or Welker from the Pats.

Got to disagree. He is not a truly elite Randy Moss, Calvin Johnson type receiver but he is a very good NFL #1. He has 3 1,000 yard seasons (two in his 4 years as a Redskin) and if you take away his first two years with the Jets even when he has not got to 1,000 he has been around the 800 yard mark.

He holds the Redskin single season receiving yardadge mark which is quite something when you think about Charley Taylor, Art Monk, Gary Clark etc.

While he has been a Redskin he has been our only reliable outside threat and has been double covered most of the time but still gets open and makes plays. If Devin Thomas can step up this year and make teams pay for doubling Moss we might actually start to see some payback for the paitence and time we have given Jason Campbell.

IMO Moss is part of the solution not the problem.

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Againsts the Bucs? You mean the 0 TD, 2 INT, 1 fumble lost performance in the same game where Turner got 152 on the ground? Yeah. Ryan was clutch.
Yes. Game winning OT drive = clutch. What is your definition of clutch? 5TD performances?
Against the Vikes... Is that the same play that Ryan fumbled on and Blaylock scooped up for the win?
Yes. Again, Ryan is a QB, and he scrambled from the 5 yard line putting his body on the line going airborne into defenders.

Mike Sellers is a FB and we ran him twice on the 1 yard line.

If it was a QB sneak I wouldn't really be bringing it up.

Those 2 wins clinched a playoff spot for the Falcons. Those 2 plays put those games away. And they were against the 9-7 Bucs and the 10-6 Vikings.

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Got to disagree. He is not a truly elite Randy Moss, Calvin Johnson type receiver but he is a very good NFL #1. He has 3 1,000 yard seasons (two in his 4 years as a Redskin) and if you take away his first two years with the Jets even when he has not got to 1,000 he has been around the 800 yard mark.

He holds the Redskin single season receiving yardadge mark which is quite something when you think about Charley Taylor, Art Monk, Gary Clark etc.

While he has been a Redskin he has been our only reliable outside threat and has been double covered most of the time but still gets open and makes plays. If Devin Thomas can step up this year and make teams pay for doubling Moss we might actually start to see some payback for the paitence and time we have given Jason Campbell.

IMO Moss is part of the solution not the problem.

and the year he set the redskins record was the one year where we actually had great QB play for most of the season. brunell was hitting the deep ball very well, and he was finding moss (who is supposedly always double covered) constantly. notice portis had his best year as a redskin the same year our QB was playing well.

then we fastforward to 06, where our oline was on fire as evidenced by ladell betts' career year, and because our QBs both played poorly (one old, one a rookie), our offense struggled. defense didnt help out, but our offense was day and night from 05 to 06. its all about the QB.

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I think Moss is slightly over-rated. He has great speed and a double move. Thats it. He does not have great hands. He does not have fluid hips. He does not have good body control or the size to fight for a ball in space. He cant block well.

Moss has had one single great season in his career. Dont make him bigger than he is.

IMO, Moss is more suited to be a slot man and return guy. He would be very successful in a role like Curtis from the Iggles, or Welker from the Pats.

Santana is the "poor mans" Steve Smith. Several years back Moss and Smith led the league in yardage and catches and they were neck and neck for most of the season.

And yes it is up to Campbell...but it is also up to Santana's hamstring problems. He needs to find Steve Smiths trainer and talk to him.

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Santana is the "poor mans" Steve Smith. Several years back Moss and Smith led the league in yardage and catches and they were neck and neck for most of the season.

And yes it is up to Campbell...but it is also up to Santana's hamstring problems. He needs to find Steve Smiths trainer and talk to him.

moss has missed 4 games over the past 4 seasons. hardly something to claim is a problem. all burner guys get hammy pulls, it comes with the territory of being a burner.

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I can't believe this thread is still going...Everybody STILL arguing the JC situation...

For what? Obviously "The Haters" are going to hate, and "The Supporters" are going to support...Nobody will budge from their opinion, so why keep arguing?

JC will be the QB this season, and that's it...If he performs well, he will be back and we'll be a better team for it...If he performs as normal or even poorly he will either be a back-up here or gone...LET IT GO!

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moss has missed 4 games over the past 4 seasons. hardly something to claim is a problem. all burner guys get hammy pulls, it comes with the territory of being a burner.

He also had a bunch of games where it bothered him but he played anyway. Likely hampered his performance. Still, as you said, hardly something to cry about.

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Yes. Game winning OT drive = clutch. What is your definition of clutch? 5TD performances?

Yes. Again, Ryan is a QB, and he scrambled from the 5 yard line putting his body on the line going airborne into defenders.

Mike Sellers is a FB and we ran him twice on the 1 yard line.

If it was a QB sneak I wouldn't really be bringing it up.

Those 2 wins clinched a playoff spot for the Falcons. Those 2 plays put those games away. And they were against the 9-7 Bucs and the 10-6 Vikings.

I think you are high, because the "game winning OT drive" was done on the back of Turner who broke a 20 - 30 yard run and put them in field goal position. It was definitley not on Ryan arm that day. Talk about revisionist!

The Falcons won that day DESPITE Ryans play... not BECAUSE of it. Please watch the video highlights of the game. Maybe you can come back and tell that the whole game came down to the first down he ran for... putting his body on the line... was "clutch". Not Turner... not the defense... certainly not the kicker.:doh:

http://www.nfl.com/gamecenter?game_id=29737&displayPage=tab_gamecenter&season=2008&week=REG15

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I think you are high, because the "game winning OT drive" was done on the back of Turner who broke a 20 - 30 yard run and put them in field goal position. It was definitley not on Ryan arm that day. Talk about revisionist!

The Falcons won that day DESPITE Ryans play... not BECAUSE of it. Please watch the video highlights of the game. Maybe you can come back and tell that the whole game came down to the first down he ran for... putting his body on the line... was "clutch". Not Turner... not the defense... certainly not the kicker.:doh:

http://www.nfl.com/gamecenter?game_id=29737&displayPage=tab_gamecenter&season=2008&week=REG15

I think you also just summed up JC's ability to play QB with that comment.

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I think you also just summed up JC's ability to play QB with that comment.

Cardinals, Cowboys, Saints, Lions, Eagles game all had clutch drives by JC and very good throws through out.

I think your comment just showed your bias.

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I think you also just summed up JC's ability to play QB with that comment.

Whatever you say hog. :rolleyes:

JC dd not have any outings in 2008 like the one being discussed now. Its okay. I already know how biased you are about the guy.

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I think you are high, because the "game winning OT drive" was done on the back of Turner who broke a 20 - 30 yard run and put them in field goal position. It was definitley not on Ryan arm that day. Talk about revisionist!

The Falcons won that day DESPITE Ryans play... not BECAUSE of it. Please watch the video highlights of the game. Maybe you can come back and tell that the whole game came down to the first down he ran for... putting his body on the line... was "clutch". Not Turner... not the defense... certainly not the kicker.:doh:

http://www.nfl.com/gamecenter?game_id=29737&displayPage=tab_gamecenter&season=2008&week=REG15

I'm not talking about Michael Turner, the defense or the rest of the game. I agree with you on the Falcons, Michael Turner and John Abraham are their obvious MVPs. You were asking for clutch performances.

The game was won on a 17 yard Michael Turner run to get them into FG range. But that was on an 11play 56 yard drive which Ryan also produced half of those yards including a key QB keeper on 3rd and 3.

Let me give you an analogy. What did Ben Roethlisberger do against the Cardinals besides the 90yard drive to win the game? Not a whole lot.

What did Jason Campbell do against the Saints before hitting Santana in the 4th quarter? Jack ****. We were calling for his head because the Saints secondary was beyond decimated and we couldn't take advantage through the air. But Campbell came through in the clutch. *When was the last time you heard someone bring up the obvious that Portis had 2 TDs in the 2nd half of that game and we don't win without it? Of course you don't, because it was an amazing play from Campbell in the clutch..

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But Campbell came through in the clutch. ..

Negative ... it was more like a hail-Mary heave ... Campbell and Skins got lucky on that one ... an elite QB throws one or more bombs a game ... Campbell never came close to repeating that heave the remainder of the season. He will never rise above mediocre IMO.

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Cardinals, Cowboys, Saints, Lions, Eagles game all had clutch drives by JC and very good throws through out.

I think your comment just showed your bias.

Don't forget he led the team on late 4th quarter go ahead TD's against the Rams, and 49'ers, and the D couldn't hold either lead...

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