Counterfeit Gamers

[Mark The Homer]

Greetings.

I think it's time we start keeping track of the counterfeit and fraudulent game jerseys and those who sell them. I suggest we list them in this thread. We have been seeing more and more of them over the past year, and it would be nice to keep tabs on them so when we see them pop up repeatedly, we can identify them.

EBay sellers to avoid:

remembering-21

remembering21

jons38ct

robocop6849

purplepeoplejhh

bluechipsports

Certificates Of Authenticity (COAs) which are shams:

Mid Atlantic Memorabilia

Blue Chip Sports Collectibles

Fake Jersey #1

This one is a so-called 2007 Laron Landry game jersey currently listed on eBay. The seller claims he bought it from the team in 2008 and paid over $1,000 for it. He wants $800 for it. What a deal.

Ebay seller: remembering-21 (claims to be from CT)

Alternate eBay seller name: remembering21 (claims to be from FL)

http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=270386789465&ru=http%3A%2F%2Fshop.ebay.com%3A80%2F270386789465%3F_from%3DR40%26_trksid%3Dm38%26_nkw%3D270386789465%26_naf%3D1%26_fvi%3D1&_rdc=1

Obvious problems (besides the fact that the seller's footware consists of a socks/sandals combination :rotflmao:):

(1) The 2008 Collector's Sale hosted by the Redskins did not include 2007 jerseys. I know because I was there.

(2) There is no mention of the thermopatch which is applied by the team and is included on all of Landry's game worn jerseys. Example (taken from an actual Landry gamer):

(3) It's a size 46. Landry wears only a size 44 on game day as clearly shown on the www.josportsco.com site.

(4) The stitching around the anni patch is sloppy and overlaps the gold ring on the top and the corner. Neither Ripon nor the Redskins tailor does work like this.

(5) The patch on this fake jersey is meant for a white jersey and is incorrect (interestingly, these all-burgundy patches are used on some burgundy retail authentics (the kind with the cuffed sleeves) for some odd reason, but never on a burgundy game jersey). The 75th anni patch on a burgundy game jersey will always look like this with no exceptions:

(6) The sleeve on this fraudulent jersey includes a white stripe which wraps completely around the arm. This is proof that the jersey was manufactured between 2002 and 2005. The burgundy jerseys with this sleeve style manufactured after 2005 have a white stripe that wraps only half way around the arm with one wider solid gold stripe running underneath the arm as this example shows:

(7) It appears the year-and-size tag has been removed to perpetuate the fraud. If it was intact and correct, it would look like this:

This seller is lying, plain and simple. He did not buy this jersey as shown from the team, unless he bought it as a 2005 or older jersey with no name on back for $50, which is what many of the unpopular jerseys sold for during the Jan 2008 sale. He or somebody has altered this jersey - adding the LANDRY nameplate and 75th anni patch - and this seller is being deliberately misleading in hopes of cheating a prospective buyer. Most veteran collectors won't fall for this, but chances are some Redskins fan who is new to this hobby is going to get cheated by this guy.

Fake Jersey #2

In addition, a look at the above seller's feedback shows us this 2003 Arrington jersey which he sold:

<pic lost, sorry>

Obvious problems:

(1) No GSS patch.

(2) Jersey is not customized at the hem as Lavar had his actual 2003 game jersey customized (note the missing jock tag):

photo credit: www.josportsco.com

Fake Jersey #3

Below, the same seller above wants $1,500 for a counterfeit Taylor gamer.

http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=270392845567&ssPageName=ADME:B:SS:US:1123

It didn't sell.

Below is what appears to be another scumbag eBay seller with a fraudulent Taylor jersey he'd love for you to buy. The seller has started bidding at $1,200. What a deal.

eBay seller: jons38ct

(1) It's obviously a fake by the incorrect, pre-2006 sleeves.

(2) Note the heavy stitching around the swatch. This is probably to hide the needle holes from the original stitching before it was removed from the original '06 jersey.

Fake jersey swatch stitching:

Legitimate swatch stitching:

Edit: Xavmit has pointed out that the emails for the two eBay sellers above are one and the same: jons38ct@yahoo.com. Obviously, it's the same jersey in two listings by two eBay sellers. So, it's not another scumbag eBay seller afterall. It's the same scumbag eBay seller. :doh: He's so dumb, he used the same photograph in both listings. Stupidity seems to be a common trait among lying, cheating, thieving, scumbag sellers such as those listed in this post.

Fake Jersey #4

Here's another obvious fake found by Xavmit. Again, somebody took a pre-2006 jersey and tried to make it a later jersey. :doh:. This one is a Haynesworth. The seller claims it was supposed to be a presentation jersey, but never used. If the team had extra #92 jerseys laying around, they would have been for Evans and therefore in a larger size. And they would be current, not four years old. And seriously, I'd love to see Haynesworth try and get into a 44.

EBay seller: robocop6849

http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&ssPageName=STRK:MEWAX:IT&item=120422124782

Fake Jersey #5

The below jersey is being sold by eBay seller: purplepeoplejhh. The seller claims the jersey is "GUARENTEED [sic] BY MID ATLANTIC MEMORABILIA COA." Seller claims the jersey is "WASHINGTON REDSKINS GAME ISSUED ARRINGTON JERSEY PURCHASED RIGHT FROM THE TEAM."

(1) The seller is lying. We know he's lying because the jersey has an incorrect "6" font. The top of the "6" and the bottom of the "9" on an Adidas jersey has a slant at the tip with no exceptions. This jersey number is a stock reebok font. It is not an Adidas font, and is therefore a counterfeit.

http://cgi.ebay.com/LAVAR-ARRINGTON-GAME-TEAM-ISSUED-USED-REDSKINS-JERSEY_W0QQitemZ120387391638QQcmdZViewItemQQptZLH_DefaultDomain_0?hash=item1c07a5d096&_trksid=p3286.m20.l1116

Here is what the "6" would look like if it was legitimate:

(2) The other problem is the stitching. Game jersey stitching stops at the corners. The jersey is turned. Then the stitch starts again. This jersey is turned during the stitching so that the stitch rounds around the corner in a continuous stitch. Retail authentic jerseys made overseas are like this but not game jerseys made in this country. This is proof that the jersey is counterfeit.

Also, note the horrible spelling within the listing - which seems to be one of the typical trademarks of a fraudulent seller. Stupidity and ignorance are common traits among these cheating, thieving sellers.

I had notified the seller of these problems thinking there was a chance he was honest and simply didn't notice these problems, but he shrugged them off, saying he "bought the jersey from the team!". This is impossible. The seller is lying, plain and simple. He showed no concern at all over these obvious issues, which proves he knows the product is counterfeit and which proves he is a scumbag.

It also proves that "Mid Atlantic Memorabilia" is a sham and are certifying blatant counterfeit jerseys as genuine. Because of this, I think it would be wise to assume anything certified by Mid Atlantic Memorabilia is a counterfeit, even if it appears to be legitimate. And of course, a buyer would be wise to assume anything sold by purplepeoplejhh is a counterfeit, with or without the worthless COA.

Edit: Here is an image of a so-called COA, complete with a misspelling, for a so-called game worn jersey (which is almost certainly counterfeit or mis-represented) which he sold to an ES member:

Fake Jersey #6

(1) The sleeves show this to be a 2006 or later jersey, but the year-size swatch claims it's a 2004 jersey. That's impossible.

This was sold at nflauction.com as an "authentic." Not sure how they define authentic.

http://www.nflauction.nfl.com/cgi-bin/ncommerce3/ProductDisplay?prrfnbr=106106308&prmenbr=65664914&aunbr=106453018

It is difficult to figure out what the league is doing here. One possibility is, the league purposely placed (or had the manufacturer purposely place) a bad year-size swatch on the jersey so that collectors would know it's not team-issued. That's the only thing I can think of that makes any kind of sense. If you look closely at the stitching of the swatch, it seems to be extra heavily stitched or double-stitched, which counterfeiters will do to hide the old needle holes from the original swatch stitching when it was on the original jersey. There are quite a few jerseys like this being auctioned off at nflauction.com.

It may be that the manufacturer accidentally made too many burgundy jerseys, or the team accidentally ordered too many, since we know the team rarely wore burgundy over the past several years - and now they're trying to get some value from these jerseys.

Edit: nflauction.com is now nflauction.nfl.com

Edit again: nflauction.nfl.com is now auction.nfl.com. Sheesh.

Fake Jersey #7

This jersey is being sold as a game jersey on eBay. The problem with it is the location of the Starter logo on the sleeve. The logo should be placed above the number on a genuine 1994 game jersey with this type of sleeve.

Fake Jersey #8

This jersey is being sold as a game worn jersey on eBay. The problem is, it has a retail loop tag behind the neck. Adidas game jerseys do not have retail loop tags.

Fake Jersey #9

This jersey is being sold as a game worn jersey during the 2004 season, worn by Sean Taylor. It appears the year/size swatch has been removed. However, the tab at the jock tag shows the jersey to be a size 50. Sean wore a size 46.

Fake Jersey #10

http://www.nflauction.nfl.com/cgi-bin/ncommerce3/ProductDisplay?prrfnbr=122244590&prmenbr=65664914&aunbr=122591300

Another jersey sold by the league which at first glance looks like a gamer:

Unfortunately, besides the jersey size being six sizes too large, closer inspection shows the sleeves to be incorrect:

Turns out the COA guarantees the sig, not the jersey.

We should probably give the league or team at least some credit for making obvious changes to these jerseys so that they are not easily confused for gamers.

Fake Jersey #11

In 2000, the Redskins retail division had a number of "game-cut" jerseys of Brad Johnson and Deion Sanders made. These were different than the typical retail authentics in that they were made at the same factory as the game jerseys and therefore look exactly or almost exactly the same as the gamers. Therefore, whenever we see 2000 game jerseys of Sanders of B. Johnson, we should be suspicious. The jersey above is a game cut jersey, but it's being sold as a game-worn and the seller, bluechipsports, is asking for $995. The seller even claims it shows game use and claims the jersey includes a COA from Blue Chip Sports. There are a couple things that make is obviously a game cut jersey and not a gamer. 1) Sanders' loose sleeve gamers are customized so that the sleeves are folded and sewn in so that only about half of the gold stripe shows. 2) The sleeves are cut underneath the arm and fabric is added, making the sleeves looser and showing a break in the stripes. The seller doesn't show this in his pic, but I'd be willing to bet there is no customization under the arm. In the off chance that bluechipsports made an honest mistake, I advised the seller that the jersey he is advertising is game cut and not game worn. He has ignored my comments.

[Rdskn4Lyf21]

Mark, you never cease to amaze me with your jersey knowledge :notworthy

[rd421]

Bro you are unreal with your Jersey detective work you are the Jersey Swami.....

[Ned Flanders]

Yeah, I emailed that guy through ebay. I asked him if it was game issued or game used, and what game it was used in. I knew full well about the color differences on the White and Burgundy patches - I just wanted to see what he'd say. Here's his reply

"Game issued. Game worn goes for $1,100 $1,500. I got this at the end of the 2007 season in 2008. The Washington Redskins were expected to where Burgundy 3 x that year and only wore them twice. This jersey was purchased directly through the Washington Redskins."

[PhillySkinsFan47]

Mark,

Thanks for posting this, there are alot of crooks selling jerseys on Ebay, Hopefully this will save someone from being cheated, I know it's got me looking at jerseys alot more carefully!!

[Mark The Homer]

Yeah, I emailed that guy through ebay. I asked him if it was game issued or game used, and what game it was used in. I knew full well about the color differences on the White and Burgundy patches - I just wanted to see what he'd say. Here's his reply

"Game issued. Game worn goes for $1,100 $1,500. I got this at the end of the 2007 season in 2008. The Washington Redskins were expected to where Burgundy 3 x that year and only wore them twice. This jersey was purchased directly through the Washington Redskins."

He's full of ****.

[MattFancy]

Mark the Homer starring in CSI: Jersey

[Fletch_Lives59]

MTH is like the offical dad of ES...:thumbsup:

[Chamelio Salamander]

I've been burned on Ebay by fakes. I understand why MTH is so dedicated to making sure everyone knows the truth.

[kiingspadee]

good job mark.

[dirtfreak]

thanks Mark for the info

[motorhead]

Mark good thread!Great catch!

I went and "Reported this item".

Keep up the good work!:thumbsup:

[Mark The Homer]

Mark good thread!Great catch!

I went and "Reported this item".

Keep up the good work!:thumbsup:

Thanks. That's kind of a pain in the ass and half the time they don't do anything. Appreciate it.

[Ned Flanders]

The child in me says we should plaster his email all over free gay porn sites; but that's just me.

Or we should all ask semi-serious questions like we're interested, and then call him out on it.

He's definitely a Dbag

[motorhead]

Thanks. That's kind of a pain in the ass and half the time they don't do anything. Appreciate it.

I try.

I know it's all about the money.

As big as Ebay is I bet they only have 200 Mods.

[xavmit]

great thread.

[Travdaskin]

Thanks Mark for the thread, I am one of those new hobby type of guys lol, I wouldn't have bought this though, like you said the sleeves are the first give-a-way IMO, anytime I am looking at something like this, can I let you know about it???

[Mark The Homer]

Certainly.

[vicrodjr]

CSI here you come Mark. I always like the info that you provide once you decide if the jersey is fake or ligit!! Damn you are good!!!

[xavmit]

Greetings.

I think it's time we start keeping track of the counterfeit and fraudulent game jerseys and those who sell them. I suggest we list them in this thread. We have been seeing more and more of them over the past year, and it would be nice to keep tabs on them so when we see them pop up repeatedly, we can identify them.

This one is a so-called 2007 Laron Landry game jersey currently listed on eBay. The seller claims he bought it from the team in 2008 and paid over $1,000 for it. He wants $800 for it. What a deal.

Ebay seller: remembering-21

Obvious problems:

The 2008 Collector's Sale did not include 2007 jerseys. I know because I was there.

There is no mention of the thermopatch which is applied by the team and is included on all of Landry's game worn jerseys. Example (taken from an actual Landry gamer):

It's a size 46. Landry wears only a size 44 on game day as clearly shown on the site.

The stitching around the patch is sloppy and overlaps the gold ring on the top and the corner. Neither Ripon nor the Redskins tailor does work like this.

The above patch is meant for a white jersey and is incorrect (interestingly, these all-burgundy patches are used on burgundy retail authentics for some odd reason, but never on a burgundy game jersey). The 75th anni patch on a burgundy game jersey will always look like this with no exceptions:

The sleeve on this fraudulent jersey includes a white stripe which wraps completely around the arm. This is proof that the jersey was manufactured between 2002 and 2005. The burgundy jerseys with this sleeve style manufactured after 2005 have a white stripe that wraps only half way around the arm with one wider solid gold stripe running underneath the arm as this example shows:

It appears the year-and-size tag has been removed to perpetuate the fraud. If it was intact and correct, it would look like this:

This seller is lying, plain and simple. He did not buy this jersey as shown from the team, unless he bought it as a 2005 jersey with no name on back for $50, which is what many of the unpopular jerseys sold for during the Jan 2008 sale. He or somebody has altered this jersey - adding the LANDRY nameplate and 75th anni patch - and this seller is being deliberately misleading in hopes of cheating a prospective buyer. Most veteran collectors won't fall for this, but chances are some Redskins fan who is new to this hobby is going to get cheated by this guy.

In addition, a look at his feedback shows us this 2003 Arrington jersey which he sold:

Obvious problem:

No GSS patch.

Some additional points:

remembering has recently changed his ebay user id. It used to be remembering21 with a 138 feedback rating. He is now remembering-21 with an 8 feedback rating. The former remembering had two nasty negative feedbacks prior to the name switch.

I suspect he got the Landry from the guy in Wisconsin who was also selling the game cut pro bowl jerseys. He had either 2 or 3 of these Landry jerseys. I got one myself. I suspect remembering added the patch. My Landry is labeled 04-46 and, indeed, the reason he removed the neck tag is that it would not be consistent with the patch (07 year). The jersey probably cost him around $300.

[skinfan2k]

Mark,

I want to get this

http://cgi.ebay.com/Thrash-Washington-Redskins-Game-Used-Worn-Jersey-Signed_W0QQitemZ220407609888QQcmdZViewItemQQptZLH_DefaultDomain_0?hash=item3351513a20&_trksid=p3286.c0.m14&_trkparms=72%3A570|66%3A2|65%3A12|39%3A1|240%3A1318|301%3A1|293%3A1|294%3A50

legit?

[skinfan31]

Mark,

I want to get this

http://cgi.ebay.com/Thrash-Washington-Redskins-Game-Used-Worn-Jersey-Signed_W0QQitemZ220407609888QQcmdZViewItemQQptZLH_DefaultDomain_0?hash=item3351513a20&_trksid=p3286.c0.m14&_trkparms=72%3A570|66%3A2|65%3A12|39%3A1|240%3A1318|301%3A1|293%3A1|294%3A50

legit?

thats funny. I've been watching that one too, but too afraid to pull the trigger!

[disturbed1]

MAN..... before I buy my next jersey (which I believe are all fake now) I am contacting you first. You are amazing....

[Yeen80]

That Thrash jersey is legit. If you can swallow the price tag, go for it. It's real

[Mark The Homer]

I agree with Yeen. It sure looks legit.

Whether it was actually worn in a game is another question. Thrash was active all 16 games in '04, so that's good.

http://www.cbssports.com/nfl/players/playerpage/1859

I prefer a jersey that has obvious team repairs. They're much cooler because you know for sure it was on the field and you might even find a photo match some day if you're lucky. The seller doesn't mention team repairs. Still, there might be some on there.

Anyways - $300 - wtf, that's the price of a crap retail authentic. You can't lose. Nice starter jersey. I'd buy it.