Dan T. Posted May 1, 2009 Share Posted May 1, 2009 Because he doesn't possess sprinter's speed and doesn't break TD returns, let's get rid of Rock Cartwright, right? Wrong. Many Redskins fans severely underestimate his value as a kick returner. A quick look at the numbers from 2008 shows that he is more than adequate as a kick returner. Steady as a rock. Coaches repeat the mantra of field position as vitally important in the NFL. With Cartwright last year, the Redskins were rarely backed into their own end of the field. He was 2nd in the NFC in returns of 20+ yards, (4th in the NFL). He was 4th in the NFC with returns of 40+ yards. Among regular kick returners (more than 16 returns on the season), he was tied for 5th in the NFC in return average (11th in the NFL). And his average was less than .5 yard behind Darren Sproles, who everybody on this board lusted over as the ideal return guy. But he doesn't hit the return home run! Neither does anybody else, really. Nobody returned more than 1 kick for TD in the NFC last year. Only one guy in the entire NFL had more than one - Oakland's Justin Miller with 2. And even with those two returns, his overall return average was less than Cartwright's. I would trade the rare return for TD for consistently good returns, which is what Cartwright gave the team last year. But he fumbles too much! Wrong. ZERO fumbles on returns in 2008. In addition, he's a veteran team leader and valued special teams player in addition to his return duties. It seems that every year people have been calling for him to be replaced as kick returner. This week's example can be found here. The discussion there, and similar complaining in other threads, motivated this thread. If the Redskins can find somebody better, fine. Cartwright's 29, and at some point his production will start tailing off. But let's not delude ourselves with the notion that Cartwright and the Redskins kick returns are a weakness on this team. Lack of flash doesn't equal ineffectiveness. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KingGibbs Posted May 1, 2009 Share Posted May 1, 2009 Dan. You'll see how I feel about Rock based on my past post history on the subject. He is a highly valuable player and more often then not gives our offense decent field position. I wish more 'skins would have the passion he does. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JustAfan47 Posted May 1, 2009 Share Posted May 1, 2009 Good thread...i love me some Rock!... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IbleedBnG83 Posted May 1, 2009 Share Posted May 1, 2009 He is also great in coverage. I do like him, but I think we should have a 4th back who can break a run or two. I still think there should be an open competition for the return spot. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Blondie Posted May 1, 2009 Share Posted May 1, 2009 A good day for me to be home..........sick. I get to read some good ROCK stuff. Thanks. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
theboomking Posted May 1, 2009 Share Posted May 1, 2009 I agree 100% with everything said in this thread. Rock is our special teams MVP, and is also a tremendously hard worker and a good model for our younger players. Even if a lot of the fans don't value him, I think the coaches recognize his value, and his roster spot is secure. Now, as a running back, he's not my favorite. We would be better served with a different #3 back as long as we have a #1 and #2 back that consistently have injury issues. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IbleedBnG83 Posted May 1, 2009 Share Posted May 1, 2009 A good day for me to be home..........sick.I get to read some good ROCK stuff. Thanks. Remind me, what is your "obsession" with Rock? I know you are a big fan of his. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Leonard Washington Posted May 1, 2009 Share Posted May 1, 2009 This is a great thread and should be bumped during TC/preseason when we have the annual "will rock be cut?" thread. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Blondie Posted May 1, 2009 Share Posted May 1, 2009 Remind me, what is your "obsession" with Rock? I know you are a big fan of his. Why is the word obsession in " "? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NewCliche21 Posted May 1, 2009 Share Posted May 1, 2009 Excellent thread! Those who don't appreciate Rock don't know what the hell they're talking about. A kick returner and a punt returner are two very, very different things. Our problem is definitely the latter and most certainly not the former. Remind me, what is your "obsession" with Rock? I know you are a big fan of his. She knows him personally from what I've gathered. And, from what I've put together in my own head, he must've saved her dog from a burning house, too. Twice. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rdskn4Lyf21 Posted May 1, 2009 Share Posted May 1, 2009 But he fumbles too much! Wrong. ZERO fumbles on returns in 2009. We are also undefeated in 2009 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
santana_4_prez Posted May 1, 2009 Share Posted May 1, 2009 Not saying we should get rid of him...but he did fumble once out of bounds. Although it might not go as an official fumble, I remember him trying to catch a kick, it hitting him right in the chest and flying out of bounds. Anybody else remember that one? It was at a critical point in a game. Vs. Dallas? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NewCliche21 Posted May 1, 2009 Share Posted May 1, 2009 Not saying we should get rid of him...but he did fumble once out of bounds. Although it might not go as an official fumble, I remember him trying to catch a kick, it hitting him right in the chest and flying out of bounds. Anybody else remember that one? It was at a critical point in a game. Vs. Dallas? . . . seriously? Jurgensen threw an interception one time at a critical point in a game. Thank god he doesn't play for us anymore! :doh: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Blondie Posted May 1, 2009 Share Posted May 1, 2009 Excellent thread! Those who don't appreciate Rock don't know what the hell they're talking about. A kick returner and a punt returner are two very, very different things. Our problem is definitely the latter and most certainly not the former.She knows him personally from what I've gathered. And, from what I've put together in my own head, he must've saved her dog from a burning house, too. Twice. Saved the dog and fed the cat. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rdskn4Lyf21 Posted May 1, 2009 Share Posted May 1, 2009 . . . seriously? Jurgensen threw an interception one time at a critical point in a game. Thank god he doesn't play for us anymore! :doh: NC...you need to get a new sarcasm meter (at least I don't think santana_4_prez is that dumb ) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IbleedBnG83 Posted May 1, 2009 Share Posted May 1, 2009 Why is the word obsession in " "? Because I am using the term loosely. I don't really mean you are obsessed. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Blondie Posted May 1, 2009 Share Posted May 1, 2009 NC...you need to get a new sarcasm meter (at least I don't think santana_4_prez is that dumb ) :whoknows: I missed the sarcasm too. I thought he was being serious. Because I am using the term loosely. I don't really mean you are obsessed. Rock and I are very close.......long before he became a REDSKIN. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rdskn4Lyf21 Posted May 1, 2009 Share Posted May 1, 2009 :whoknows:I missed the sarcasm too. I thought he was being serious. Paging santana_4_prez.... I have to know now if you were serious or not Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
morpheusmeyers Posted May 1, 2009 Share Posted May 1, 2009 The NFL rules change that goes into effect this season that prevents being able to utilize a wedge on kick returns diminishes Rock's value to the team as a return man. He simply does not have the speed to create things in open space on a consistent basis, without use of the wedge. Dominique Dorsey on the other hand... Rock still has value on ST coverage, but that alone may not be enough to guarantee him a roster spot. Agreed that he has been a consistent return man in previous years, though. Regarding the wedge rule change... "...no blocking wedge of more than two players will be allowed, with a 15-yard penalty to be assessed to the violating team." Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NewCliche21 Posted May 1, 2009 Share Posted May 1, 2009 NC...you need to get a new sarcasm meter (at least I don't think santana_4_prez is that dumb ) Psh, I hope I was being an idiot there. Rock gets a TON of hate on this board for absolutely no reason. If I had four words for the guy, then they'd be: Thank you. Ignore them. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IbleedBnG83 Posted May 1, 2009 Share Posted May 1, 2009 Rock and I are very close.......long before he became a REDSKIN. Cool! Just been wondering. I bet he gets you some sweet tix, huh... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dswerdlw Posted May 1, 2009 Share Posted May 1, 2009 Ok, let's keep Rock. And let's keep Mason too, as we really need a change of pace back. So, who will be our running backs on the 53 man roster? Portis, Betts, Rock, Mason, and Sellers? Will we really keep five running backs? My guess is that if we keep Mason, we might let Rock or Sellers go. If that's the case, I'm thinking it's Sellers since we drafted the Eddie Williams kid, who seems to be more versatile. He could be our 3rd TE (if we cut Yoder) and FB. It will be interesting to watch how this all plays out. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IbleedBnG83 Posted May 1, 2009 Share Posted May 1, 2009 Ok, let's keep Rock. And let's keep Mason too, as we really need a change of pace back. So, who will be our running backs on the 53 man roster? Portis, Betts, Rock, Mason, and Sellers? Will we really keep five running backs? My guess is that if we keep Mason, we might let Rock or Sellers go. If that's the case, I'm thinking it's Sellers since we drafted the Eddie Williams kid, who seems to be more versatile. He could be our 3rd TE (if we cut Yoder) and FB. It will be interesting to watch how this all plays out. Mason is NOT a change of pace back. He is similar to Betts. Heck, Portis is similar too, with a little more shiftiness. They both hit the holes hard. Alrdige or Dorsey are change of pace backs. They are smaller, speed cut back guys. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MartinC Posted May 1, 2009 Share Posted May 1, 2009 IMO its punt returns we need to think about not kick returns. If its not broken don't fix it. We signed a couple of speed guys this offseason - I'm thinking one of them might make the team if they show they can do the punt return job. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
santana_4_prez Posted May 1, 2009 Share Posted May 1, 2009 Paging santana_4_prez....I have to know now if you were serious or not I was being serious...I'm surprised nobody remembers it. I wasn't really hating on Rock, I like the dude. I was just pointing out to the OP that there was one fumble...even though he didn't officially have possesion. Kind of a stupid point, I agree. I think Rock is an adequate return guy. If somebody has tape of the game, look it up. 2nd half I think. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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