You only need a savior if you need to be saved....

[Lombardi's_kid_brother]

We are about three years away from the moment where the most powerful media company in the world is TMZ. As such, we can no longer expect any real news. Just opinion fed through blogs and regurgitated on cable tv.

Under these conditions it's not hard to see why no one is doing good reporting any longer.

But the tragedy is going to be the stories we miss. Obviously, the greater disaster is going to be the loss of good political and business reporting, as we are already seeing the impact of that in our country.

Still, sports are important too. And there are two huge unreporterd stories right now. One involving sports in general. The other involving the NFL and the Redskins in particular.

The big story is this: How financially solvent are the leagues, the teams, and the men who own them.

Bill Simmons wrote a fantastic article a few weeks back on the No Benjamins Association. Let me sum it up this way, if the Maloofs are broke, everyone is broke.

And if you watched the NCAA tourney last month, you had to notice as I did that half the ads were NCAA "Most of us are going pro in something other than sports" ads. I turned to my friend at one point and said, "They couldn't get sponsors, could they?"

You also had to notice how empty those arenas were for the first four rounds. I've been to first weekend and second weekend games before and you had to know someone to get tickets in the past.

Something is brewing out there.

No one is reporting whether Yankee Stadium and Citi Park have seen their boxes and club seats used to capacity so far. No one is reporting whether Jerry Jones is selling his seats.

I can't believe that companies in financial service centers like New York and Dallas aren't trying to find everyway possible of cutting all extraneous expenses - like half million dollar cubicles in the sky. As Simmons suggested, if they are stuck with them, they might not be using them. Because you still have to stock those things with food and booze and staff.

The local question on all this is, How is Snyder doing? Six Flags is a debacle. The Golden Globes have not drawn viewers since he bought them. The Tom Cruise deal went kaflooey. So outisde of the Skins, his business ventures are flailing.

And the Redskins themselves are interesting. DC has not been hit as hard as other cities. But Government agencies don't buy luxury suites and boxes. Law firms and tech companies do. And as someone who knows a ridiculous number of lawyers, law firms are cutting people like crazy right now. Again, can partners justify a box at the MCI Center and FedEx Field and the Nationals Stadium while letting going 15 associates and 20 paralegals?

And this leads me to Sanchez. One thing in football gets the public fired-up, and that is the Dreamboat QB. Sanchez looks like the QB who dumps Mandy Moore for the floozy and then lives to regret it.

Anyway, the days of sports leagues being disconnected from the economy at large are over.

An NBA lockout during the next labor talks is a given.

The NFL CBA is about to expire during the scariest econonmy in 75 years. Do you think owners are really excited about seeing costs explode?

The NHL, well, I would not be the least bit surprised to see contraction in the near future.

The only thing keeping most of these leagues afloat is the bottomless pit of money at ESPN. But even that can't last forever if there is no competition, right?

Discuss.

[zoony]

Discuss.

I'd like to, but you said it all already

I do wonder about Snyder's finances. How many things can he completely fail on before it comes back to him? However- your post above is the first I've given any thought to the league or sports in general.

From where I sit, it looks like Snyder tried to establish a media/entertainment empire. Getting his hands into the entertainment industry, amusement parks, the redskins of course- and even saying publicly that he was interested in aquiring other DC Sports Teams.

So far, the Redskins are his only business venture that hasn't completely failed. And that one is arguably on the brink. How many of you have received emails from the ticket office? I've received several. That's something that I could never imagine happening 4 years ago.

I think Snyder is smart enough to realize that the Redskins are his golden egg. And I think that's why we get guys like Haynesworth... and why I'll never rule out the Sanchez deal until Saturday night . He's doing what he can to create a buzz around the Redskins 2009 season. Who is going to pay good money to see a perennial 8-8 team with a losing record at home?

I can't imagine the pressure that Zorn is under. Of course, with him fired at the end of this season, it will be a great way to sell tickets for 2010. "Come see Shanahan's first year as 'Skins head coach!"... and the cycle continues.

[Dan T.]

I really don't believe that a player's marketing potential is tied into player acquisition before the fact. But as long as Daniel Snyder, who made his fortune in marketing, is viewed as being involved in player acquisition, people will speculate.

And pro sports will take a hit as the economy tanks. But to the point of large-scale insolvency among the owners? I don't know about that.

That said, you raise a good point about Snyder's non-Redskins ventures. Is there anything he owns that is non-Redskins related that is doing well? Not Six Flags. Not Johnny Rockets. Not Red Zebra. Not the movie thingy.

[Inigo Montoya]

Great perspective that isnt being talked about enough, not sure how drafting a QB who could potentitally alienate the fanbase works though, most fans are pissed about the idea of trading away picks to aquire Sanchez... which is the only likely scenario for getting him

[zoony]

I really don't believe that a player's marketing potential is tied into player acquisition before the fact. But as long as Daniel Snyder, who made his fortune in marketing, is viewed as being involved in player acquisition, people will speculate.

I think it's very easy for us fans to forget just how much money is at stake in this business. The NFL is as competitive and cut-throat behind the scenes as any other multi-billion dollar corporation.

I think NFL fans are a lot like visitors to Disney World- where guests do their best to not think of the characters punching their time clocks and changing back out of their Goofy costumes, lighting a cig, and hitting the bar for a few after-work drinks.

There is a ton of money and profit riding on every decision that the team makes- whether it be in the draft or with coaching or player aquisition. And I think we as fans should remember that.

Actually, no we shouldn't. Because it takes away a lot of the magic of following a team. It's something I've said often to those who are convinced they want to take a peak behind the curtain....

.......

[Dah-Dee]

You also had to notice how empty those arenas were for the first four rounds. I've been to first weekend and second weekend games before and you had to know someone to get tickets in the past.

And this leads me to Sanchez. One thing in football gets the public fired-up' date=' and that is the Dreamboat QB. Sanchez looks like the QB who dumps Mandy Moore for the floozy and then lives to regret it.

Discuss.[/quote']

You're just trying to trick us into participating in another "marketing" thread! Well it won't wo..... DOH! :doh:

[Stophovr6]

Great perspective that isnt being talked about enough, not sure how drafting a QB who could potentitally alienate the fanbase works though, most fans are pissed about the idea of trading away picks to aquire Sanchez... which is the only likely scenario for getting him

Thing is, people will still root. He will only alienate himself and not the Redskins

That's why the Redskins are his only true non-failure at this point. If people were 'fans' of Johnny Rockets or the Golden Globes, they might be doing slightly better.

The only reason the Redskins haven't failed as a business is because fans root for their teams even during the bad years. No one is going to care about going to Six Flags if they don't have enough money. I would venture a guess that given a choice, most people that are Redskins fans would more likely spend any additional dough on the Redskins then on Six Flags or anything else really. And the people that aren't Redskins fans, still aren't going to spend additional dough on Six Flags.

If Snyder is going after Sanchez just to keep himself afloat...well I don't know what to really say about that other than I hope it pans out.

[Lombardi's_kid_brother]

I think there are a few owners in sports who cashed out in the 90s and are okay.

I imagine Paul Allen and Mark Cuban are fine. Though, I am sure that they - like everyone else - are 40 percent less fine than they were two years ago.

Those that are still actively involved in business must be hurting. I've heard that Lerner in Cleveland is bleeding money at an extradordinary degree. The Maloofs are in big trouble if everything I've read is true. The Mets Owners have been rumored to be in trouble for years. We already saw the Trib company trying to dump the Cubs. I really don't understand how the Fords are set up so I won't speculate there.

Those owners that rely on their teams for income have to be worried. I'm talking about the Rooneys, the Maras, the Browns, even Jimmy Jones. Dan Rooney just leveraged himself to his underwear to keep control of the team. He CANNOT want the cap to go away.

And this is not 1998. You can't just sell a team and expect Rupert Murdoch to be waiting with his wallet open. There can't be many buyers out there right now, as there is no capital to fund the purchase.

Seriously, what bank would underwrite today's Dan Snyder, considering Snyder took on something like 65 percent debt to buy the team? Here is $650,000,0000...go make $10 million a year with it. It's crazy.

[Dan T.]

I've often thought that Snyder came into the league with the wrong temperment to be a hands-on NFL owner.

My sense of him over the years is that he's an art-of-the-deal kind of guy, a tireless adrenaline junkie when it comes to wheeling and dealing. When it comes to rustling up investment partners or buying up marketing companies, that's a great asset to have. He's made a fortune by keeping his cell phone glued to his ear and relentless deal-making.

But when he turns all that energy to running a football team, all those deals can backfire. Sometimes non-action is the way to go in building a roster. But standing pat and being patient runs counter to his nature, and counter to everything that made him a success in the business world. He seems to live for the next deal. Remember the proposed trade offer to Lance Briggs' agent at the restaurant? Prototypical. I picture him doing that involuntary knee-bounce thing at his desk, eternally restless for action.

He needs to find something else to distract him. Too bad amusement park owners can't trade roller coasters.

[Lombardi's_kid_brother]

Thing is, people will still root. He will only alienate himself and not the Redskins

That's why the Redskins are his only true non-failure at this point. If people were 'fans' of Johnny Rockets or the Golden Globes, they might be doing slightly better.

The only reason the Redskins haven't failed as a business is because fans root for their teams even during the bad years. No one is going to care about going to Six Flags if they don't have enough money. I would venture a guess that given a choice, most people that are Redskins fans would more likely spend any additional dough on the Redskins then on Six Flags or anything else really. And the people that aren't Redskins fans, still aren't going to spend additional dough on Six Flags.

If Snyder is going after Sanchez just to keep himself afloat...well I don't know what to really say about that other than I hope it pans out.

Rooting and buying are two different things.

[TSO]

Wow, haven't seen a thread this thought-provoking in a while.

Btw, I love how you started it off. Way to drop a bit of good, helpful knowledge in there without it bothering too many people as is usually the case.

[Lombardi's_kid_brother]

I've often thought that Snyder came into the league with the wrong temperment to be a hands-on NFL owner.

My sense of him over the years is that he's an art-of-the-deal kind of guy, a tireless adrenaline junkie when it comes to wheeling and dealing. When it comes to rustling up investment partners or buying up marketing companies, that's a great asset to have. He's made a fortune by keeping his cell phone glued to his ear and relentless deal-making.

But when he turns all that energy to running a football team, all those deals can backfire. Sometimes non-action is the way to go in building a roster. But standing pat and being patient runs counter to his nature, and counter to everything that made him a success in the business world. He seems to live for the next deal. Remember the proposed trade offer to Lance Briggs' agent at the restaurant? Prototypical. I picture him doing that involuntary knee-bounce thing at his desk, eternally restless for action.

He needs to find something else to distract him. Too bad amusement park owners can't trade roller coasters.

That's an outstanding point, and one I never thought of.

I saw an interview with John Cleese where he talks about meeting Donald Trump. He said, "Donald Trump told me that he makes 150 phone calls on a typical day. I told him that sounded like an absolute nightmare."

Guys like that NEED the next deal or they whither away.

[Dah-Dee]

Rooting and buying are two different things.

I agree with this and also agree it's relevant; I've been a Redskins fans since toddler-hood (which means what, like 4-5 years?), and over the years purchased Redskins memorabilia/jerseys etc. with some regularity. Over the last several years, however, I've become so frustrated with the rudderless-ship feel around the team, and the mediocre results, that I've just not been very motivated to 'wear my pride on my sleeve.' I continue to root for them every week, but I really can't remember the last time I bought something Skins-related.

[Stophovr6]

Rooting and buying are two different things.

They are but they go hand in hand. Most Redskins fans will still buy a ball cap here and a jersey there. No one is going to buy anything from Six Flags if they don't at the least, go to six flags.

[Lombardi's_kid_brother]

Wow, haven't seen a thread this thought-provoking in a while.

Btw, I love how you started it off. Way to drop a bit of good, helpful knowledge in there without it bothering too many people as is usually the case.

Oh, I'll offend someone eventually.

[Lombardi's_kid_brother]

They are but they go hand in hand. Most Redskins fans will still buy a ball cap here and a jersey there. No one is going to buy anything from Six Flags if they don't at the least, go to six flags.

Club seats, baby. Club seats.

Seriously, Mark the Homer, if you are out there. Your job is to count the number of empty club seats at the second home game.

I know you live for this stuff. Don't act like it is a chore.

[TheLongshot]

But when he turns all that energy to running a football team, all those deals can backfire. Sometimes non-action is the way to go in building a roster. But standing pat and being patient runs counter to his nature, and counter to everything that made him a success in the business world. He seems to live for the next deal. Remember the proposed trade offer to Lance Briggs' agent at the restaurant? Prototypical. I picture him doing that involuntary knee-bounce thing at his desk, eternally restless for action.

I think he has learned to back off the pedal somewhat and focus on those things he's good at doing with the team. He seems to be a guy who likes to wrangle about contracts and being in the middle of that, which is probably good for him. I think everything else is on the business side of the Skins, which he has done quite well for himself.

I do think it is a good question if it will be good for much longer. I think at any other time the cap would be in danger. Now, I'm not so sure. Tho, I think it probably will get ugly.

[Stophovr6]

Oh' date=' I'll offend someone eventually.[/quote']

As long as you don't link to KSK, you might be ok this time.

[Stophovr6]

Club seats' date=' baby. Club seats.

Seriously, Mark the Homer, if you are out there. Your job is to count the number of empty club seats at the second home game.

I know you live for this stuff. Don't act like it is a chore.[/quote']

Is that the yellow level? That level always looks pathetic. Those are the only seat the Skins have ever tried to sell me.

[zoony]

Club seats' date=' baby. Club seats.

Seriously, Mark the Homer, if you are out there. Your job is to count the number of empty club seats at the second home game.

I know you live for this stuff. Don't act like it is a chore.[/quote']

A friend of mine's wife bought him two at the 50 yard line on a bit of a whim 2 seasons ago. Since that first season he's been doing everything he can to dump them- with no luck. Of course he is locked in for another season (3 total).

I told him to violate the Standards of Conduct policy and get them revoked Think about how much fun that could be

[Vicious]

He's doing what he can to create a buzz around the Redskins 2009 season.

This is exactly what I think and preach, I think it's all business with him.

[Lombardi's_kid_brother]

A friend of mine's wife bought him two at the 50 yard line on a bit of a whim 2 seasons ago. Since that first season he's been doing everything he can to dump them- with no luck. Of course he is locked in for another season (3 total).

I told him to violate the Standards of Conduct policy and get them revoked Think about how much fun that could be

That's one hell of a whim. And one hell of a wife.

Seriously, though, that's the kind of purchase where you just want to hang yourself two years later. Like owning a Hummer when gas went to $4.

[Dan T.]

I told him to violate the Standards of Conduct policy and get them revoked Think about how much fun that could be

Think of the fun we could have with a thread devoted to suggestions for how to get those tickets revoked...

[Lombardi's_kid_brother]

Think of the fun we could have with a thread devoted to suggestions for how to get those tickets revoked...

I've got six ideas involving the cup holder alone.

[Dan T.]

I think it's very easy for us fans to forget just how much money is at stake in this business. The NFL is as competitive and cut-throat behind the scenes as any other multi-billion dollar corporation.

I think NFL fans are a lot like visitors to Disney World- where guests do their best to not think of the characters punching their time clocks and changing back out of their Goofy costumes, lighting a cig, and hitting the bar for a few after-work drinks.

There is a ton of money and profit riding on every decision that the team makes- whether it be in the draft or with coaching or player aquisition. And I think we as fans should remember that.

Actually, no we shouldn't. Because it takes away a lot of the magic of following a team. It's something I've said often to those who are convinced they want to take a peak behind the curtain....

.......

Some good points Zoony. You're right about fans peeking behind the curtain. I don't think it used to be that way so much in the past. People cared what happened on the field, and all the off-field stuff was largely ignored. What changed? Maybe the Internet and 24-hour sports channels ...

So we follow the off-field stuff. And there absolutely is a lot of money at stake, so every team decision is a high-stakes game.

But here's the most basic, fundamental fact about marketing an NFL team:

Winning makes marketing the team easy.

So let the football people do their job of building a winning football team - SEPARATE from the business side of things. Don't mix the two. Once the team is winning, the marketing department can work 24/7 - 24 hours a week, 7 months a year - because they'll have the easiest job in the world.