twa Posted April 8, 2013 Share Posted April 8, 2013 Urban Cowboy ruined Gilley's hard for me to pass up a good Cuban too added read “Big, Hot, Cheap and Right: What America Can Learn from the Strange Genius of Texas”..Erica Grieder Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mcsluggo Posted April 8, 2013 Share Posted April 8, 2013 LSF.....Many states and utilities subsidize home solar/wind installations.The high upfront costs tends to limit takers though....and of course the decision to tax the systems as added value takes some aback http://www.cleansolarliving.com/webpage.php?page=25 U.S. Government will Pay for 30% of Your Solar System At the moment the U.S. government is offering either tax credits or grants for 30% of what is described as "qualified property," meaning any properly installed solar system. These solar installation financial incentives apply to photovoltaic panels, solar water heaters and solar space heaters. Essentially the only solar technology that is excluded is passive solar (understandably because such an incentive could be applied to an entire remodel!). i know there are occasional farms with windmills on them...but i have never seen a suburban or urban windmill (that i have noticed). Has any one else? (perhaps DC/NOVA/suburban MD just aren't good wind locations?) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
China Posted April 8, 2013 Share Posted April 8, 2013 i know there are occasional farms with windmills on them...but i have never seen a suburban or urban windmill (that i have noticed). Has any one else?(perhaps DC/NOVA/suburban MD just aren't good wind locations?) Yeah, this area is not a good location for wind. I researched windmills for our place in Orange County, VA and if you check a wind map like the one below you can see that the only places around here where windmills are worthwhile are by the coast. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
twa Posted April 8, 2013 Share Posted April 8, 2013 Map illustrating installed wind generating capacity for U.S. states at end of 2011 I don't mean to brag....but it does turn the turbines a bit faster Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zoony Posted April 8, 2013 Share Posted April 8, 2013 Definitely looks like a map of the biggest blowhards to me! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Predicto Posted April 8, 2013 Share Posted April 8, 2013 i know there are occasional farms with windmills on them...but i have never seen a suburban or urban windmill (that i have noticed). Has any one else?(perhaps DC/NOVA/suburban MD just aren't good wind locations?) Yeah, they aren't good wind areas. Best places for windmills are flat land near the coast, large plain areas, or gaps in a mountain range. The gentle hills and river valleys of the DC area don't give you strong, reliable wind. ---------- Post added April-8th-2013 at 12:21 PM ---------- Definitely looks like a map of the biggest blowhards to me! Actually, I think the chart reflects total number of teeth per county (Texas is cheating again, fake boobs and fake teeth go together :silly: ) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JMS Posted April 8, 2013 Share Posted April 8, 2013 i know there are occasional farms with windmills on them...but i have never seen a suburban or urban windmill (that i have noticed). Has any one else?(perhaps DC/NOVA/suburban MD just aren't good wind locations?) California has had industrial wind farms for decades.... I know Texas was "leading" development of electricity with wind power, but that was largely seen as a ploy. Energy companies were trying to get permission to build power lines between their "wind farms" and the power grid. Folks concerned with the ecology noted that the capacity of the lines proposed was much greater than the the capacity of the wind farms to generate. Also suspicious was the fact the wind farms were located very close to the Mexican boarder and these same power companies were actively overdeveloping traditional power production capacity in Mexico outside US environmental standards. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Predicto Posted April 8, 2013 Share Posted April 8, 2013 California has had industrial wind farms for decades....I know Texas was developing electricity for wind power, but that was largely seen as a ploy. Energy companies were trying to get permission to build power lines between their "wind farms" and the power grid. Folks concerned with the ecology noted that the capacity of the lines proposed was much greater than the the capacity of the wind farms. Also suspicious was the fact the wind farms were located very close to the Mexican boarder and these same power companies were actively overdeveloping traditional power production capacity in Mexico outside US environmental standards. I'm assuming that this turned out to be yet another baloney conspiracy theory, a la the non existent Nafta Superhighway. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
twa Posted April 8, 2013 Share Posted April 8, 2013 Actually, I think the chart reflects total number of teeth per county (Texas is cheating again, fake boobs and fake teeth go together :silly: ) We prefer to use the term enhanced Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mcsluggo Posted April 8, 2013 Share Posted April 8, 2013 ahh cool thanks to both of you ! ...... although.. that second graph really DOES just point out that Texas has alot of dustbowl and tbleweed conditions...right? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
twa Posted April 8, 2013 Share Posted April 8, 2013 depends McSluggo we got a lot of everything Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JimboDaMan Posted April 8, 2013 Share Posted April 8, 2013 We prefer to use the term enhanced Nice teeth. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JMS Posted April 8, 2013 Share Posted April 8, 2013 I'm assuming that this turned out to be yet another baloney conspiracy theory, a la the non existent Nafta Superhighway. Actually I'm pretty sure the Conspiracy Reality involving texas engergy companies have far and away eclipsed any conspiracy theorists ability to defame them.... I mean they basically bankrupted the 8th largest economy in the world and made off with Billions while artificially creating an energy crisis in California a few years back. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/California_electricity_crisis Don't you remember the following programs to defraud the Californian Public. Fat Boy. Death Star. Get Shorty Load Shift arbitrage opportunities And they made Billions doing it too...... In that documented event, Texas energy companies purchased California power generation assets when the governor of California deregulated the state. Then they took the power production off line and forced california to buy electricity back from them from other out of state generators... 10, 20 even 100 times more expensive than the instate facilities.... Or they simple shifted power out of state and then resold the power back into California for the inflated rates.... Or they sold power to California despirate for power, and transmited it on lines which were already transmitting to capacity... In which case they got paid 10 times the rate for power they never actually delivered..... Yeah those guys are trustworthy not to engineer a situation where the US imports electricity from Mexican plants which will significantly improve their bottom line. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
twa Posted April 8, 2013 Share Posted April 8, 2013 maybe if they put in more windmills?....or had competent govt JMS...... add to humor you http://www.cato.org/pubs/briefs/html/bp72/bp7200001.html Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PeterMP Posted April 8, 2013 Share Posted April 8, 2013 i know there are occasional farms with windmills on them...but i have never seen a suburban or urban windmill (that i have noticed). Has any one else?(perhaps DC/NOVA/suburban MD just aren't good wind locations?) You see them on the top of some buildings in urban areas around Philly and there are ones on at the AC beaches (not in the water, but various places on the land). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
twa Posted April 8, 2013 Share Posted April 8, 2013 I'm assuming that this turned out to be yet another baloney conspiracy theory, a la the non existent Nafta Superhighway. oh they certainly proposed extra capacity lines and we have even linked to Mexico's grid....good business and sense we even bought some from them during the big freeze http://www.elpasotimes.com/newupdated/ci_17275212 curiously he leaves out that Northern Mexico largely generates electricity from natural gas(one of the more environmentally friendly fuels) and selling electricity to N Mexico is certainly planned for unless ya'll want to buy some more;) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Predicto Posted April 8, 2013 Share Posted April 8, 2013 Actually I'm pretty sure the Conspiracy Reality involving texas engergy companies have far and away eclipsed any conspiracy theorists ability to defame them.... I mean they basically bankrupted the 8th largest economy in the world and made off with Billions while artificially creating an energy crisis in California a few years back. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/California_electricity_crisis Don't you remember the following programs to defraud the Californian Public. Fat Boy. Death Star. Get Shorty Load Shift arbitrage opportunities And they made Billions doing it too...... In that documented event, Texas energy companies purchased California power generation assets when the governor of California deregulated the state. Then they took the power production off line and forced california to buy electricity back from them from other out of state generators... 10, 20 even 100 times more expensive than the instate facilities.... Or they simple shifted power out of state and then resold the power back into California for the inflated rates.... Or they sold power to California despirate for power, and transmited it on lines which were already transmitting to capacity... In which case they got paid 10 times the rate for power they never actually delivered..... Yeah those guys are trustworthy not to engineer a situation where the US imports electricity from Mexican plants which will significantly improve their bottom line. I didn't say they were trustworthy. Believe me, I know more about the manipulation of the California electrical market than probably anyone on this board. Dealing with it was almost my full time job for a while. But that wasn't what you were talking about. What you were talking about was a bit more out there. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Predicto Posted April 9, 2013 Share Posted April 9, 2013 oh they certainly proposed extra capacity lines and we have even linked to Mexico's grid....good business and sensewe even bought some from them during the big freeze http://www.elpasotimes.com/newupdated/ci_17275212 curiously he leaves out that Northern Mexico largely generates electricity from natural gas(one of the more environmentally friendly fuels) and selling electricity to N Mexico is certainly planned for Of course they did. It wasn't a secret. The part of his post I was questioning was the idea that it was a secret conspiracy and the wind farms were a "ploy" to funnel electricity from Mexican sources into the US bypassing our blah blah blah. That's the goober part. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
twa Posted April 9, 2013 Share Posted April 9, 2013 well the plan here is to sell power to Mexico, as well as the natural gas we already supply them in ever increasing amounts. I wonder what he thinks the lines linking Cali and Mexico are for :evilg: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JMS Posted April 9, 2013 Share Posted April 9, 2013 maybe if they put in more windmills?....or had competent govt JMS......add to humor you http://www.cato.org/pubs/briefs/html/bp72/bp7200001.html It's hard to take Cato Institute seriously when discussing the premeditated manipulation and exploitation of an entire states energy system. Such that companies made billions in additional profits by undermining the free market. Because Cato believes monopolies are the free market. They don't believe in predatory monopolies, or the last 120 years of US history as a free market. Cato would wish us all to return to the days of the robber barons where 90% of the population lived bellow the poverty line and were illiterate.... Why would they believe such things... because they are funded by the Koch brothers who dream of such things. No thanks. It's not speculation or arbatrage if you both own the resource creating the shortage and the resource which is profiting from that shortage. That's called market tampering and it's illegal... as the following found out.. Daniel Bayly, 3 years Robert Furst, 3 years William Fuhs 3 years James Brown. 4 years Dan Boyle, 4 years in prison Ben Glisan, Jr - made 1 million on a 4k investment - sentense to 5 years in federal penitentiary in Beaumont, Tex Richard A. Causey, 6 years Richard Causey, 7 years in federal penitentiary Jeffrey Skilling, 24 years in prison 24 million in fines Kenneth Lay, sentenced to 45 years in prison died in custody Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
twa Posted April 9, 2013 Share Posted April 9, 2013 free market?....don't you mean govt regulated market? I don't blame ya for not trusting the energy crowd though....just look at the thieving they are doing under the green blanket. Should be a interesting few yrs ahead for Cali rate payers.....I almost feel sorry for them Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JMS Posted April 9, 2013 Share Posted April 9, 2013 What you were talking about was a bit more out there. What I was talking about what greasing the political and legal barriers to building power lines by claiming you are (1) planning on exporting rather than importing... (2) saying you are going to enable green renewable power rather than leverage massive investments you've already made in reliable traditional power facilities in Mexico. That is by no means "more out there" than defrauding California of billions of dollars and putting all of California into a state of emergency for 3 years. The latter is a multi year plan to make billions by investing millions by defrauding the public. The former is just taking out a few press releases and handing out glossy pamphlets maybe paying off a few politicians ---------- Post added April-8th-2013 at 10:57 PM ---------- free market?....don't you mean govt regulated market?I don't blame ya for not trusting the energy crowd though....just look at the thieving they are doing under the green blanket. Should be a interesting few yrs ahead for Cali rate payers.....I almost feel sorry for them Post industrial revolution free markets could not exist without government regulations. The natural order post industrial revolution is for free markets to devolve into predatory monopolies where the power is centralized in a few who use that power to subvert competition. That's illegal behavior in this country and has been since the Sherman act in 1890. The responsible role of government in a free market is to ensure competition. Without competition no market can be free. The reason we believe in free markets is because it allows the guy with the best idea to prosper which is ultimately good for the consumer. In a preditory monopoly the best idea doesn't have a chance. it's irrelivent. The only thing that matters is who has the monopolistic leverage to impose their will on the market. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
twa Posted April 9, 2013 Share Posted April 9, 2013 a little problem in your thinking......happen to know what the projected power needs for N Mexico are over the next decade? Compare it to the expected generating capacity there. the market has a will of it's own. you are correct to never trust someone who has what you really need,but you only have yourself to blame for getting in that position. ain't many rich choirboys Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JMS Posted April 9, 2013 Share Posted April 9, 2013 a little problem in your thinking......happen to know what the projected power needs for N Mexico are over the next decade?Compare it to the expected generating capacity there. Not really.... Mexico's power consumption has been shrinking for more than half a decade... and they've brought new power facilities online during that time, just in the last 5 years, which alone more than eclipse even their peak demand. Mexico's total annual Electical Consumptin for the last 12 years "Year","Mexico" "2000","164.766998291016" "2001","170.753997802734" "2002","182.830001831055" "2003","186.699996948242" "2004","186.699996948242" "2005","189.699996948242" "2006","193.899993896484" "2007","224.600006103516" high water mark 2.2 billion kWhs "2008","202" "2009","202" "2010","181.5" "2011","181.5" "2012","181.5" Just the new Electrical Capacity Mexico has brought online in the last 5 years while their domestic demand has been shrinking .....2,565 billion kWhs. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Electricity_sector_in_Mexico#Imports_and_exports Additional Mexican Electrical capacity still in development 1,450 billion KWhs http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Electricity_sector_in_Mexico#Imports_and_exports the market has a will of it's own. you are correct to never trust someone who has what you really need,but you only have yourself to blame for getting in that position. ain't many rich choirboys Again It's not a market decision if the folks who stand to make the profit by subverting the law are the same ones engineering the pending shortage which will force going to Mexico in the firstplace.. That's called subverting the market, not profiting by the market. I think it's more accurate to say greedy people facing little penelties will risk the penelties if the reward is high enough. And we all know the rewards are high enough... Subverting the US energy market is the oldest game in the book. It's the reason we have anti trust laws in the first place.... It's how John D. Rockefeller made his money.... not the the benifit of the country; but to his own benifit at the expense of the country who had no choice but to pay his inflated rates for energy after collapsing hundreds of refinaries under his Standard Oil bannor. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
twa Posted April 9, 2013 Share Posted April 9, 2013 Northern is a totally different critter than the whole greed is a terrible thing,as is blindness Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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