SI: MMQB: Jason Campbell tidbits

[Lombardi's_kid_brother]

In all honesty, the Redkins' package was about as big as they could go without slipping into Mike Ditka territory. A starting QB and two first rounders is just a ridiculous amount of assets to offer in a trade.

But, we weren't serious.

[CPortJGibbs89]

Exactly.... There isnt a player in the NFL I would trade JC and 2 1st rounders (and it would was probably more being offfered) for. Thats Nuts! Thanks Chicago for not letting us out stupid ourselves....

You would not trade two 1sts and JC for Tom Brady or Peyton??? I would give up whatever it takes to get either one of those guys. These are two of the best Qbs to ever play the game and would immediately turn us into a contender every year.

What is one thing that is very similar to the Pats and the Colts. They both have franchise Qbs and they are always in the running for a super bowl championship. You honestly would not give up two 1sts and JC for either one of them???????? That is nuts my man.

[PROSCOUT]

None of this: He has to get comfortable with the system nonsense seemed to matter when Drew Brees went to New Orleans.

If you knew anything about football you might realize that there are DIFFERENT systems and some are much more complicated and difficult to get down, and not everybody absorbs the information in the exact same manner.

Yes there are E-X-C-E-P-T-I-O-N-S to every example and every position in the NFL. Apparently you have tunnel vision, and believe everybody is exactly the same with exactly equal tools to work with and exactly equal learning curves.

It is just astounding to me that some experts in NFL management are just as naive as some of you experts on this board. Many of them also assume that the past equals the future. There are so many intangibles that change from season to season that it takes a really sharp person to perceive how those intangibles can affect teams.

I have your prediction down. Campbell will fail and Cutler and Orton will go to the pro bowl. Got it and we will talk halfway through the season if you are still around.

[JimmyConway]

In all honesty' date=' the Redkins' package was about as big as they could go without slipping into Mike Ditka territory. A starting QB and two first rounders is just a ridiculous amount of assets to offer in a trade.

But, we weren't serious.[/quote']

Two first rounds and starting QB is a lot to offer for anybody on paper but King goes on to make a good point:

"The Bears finally have the quarterback they've longed for. If anyone thinks the Bears paid too much, let me show you the 14 men who have been first-round picks for the Bears in the last 15 drafts: John Thierry, Rashaan Salaam, Walt Harris,Curtis Enis, Cade McNown, Brian Urlacher, David Terrell, Marc Colombo, Michael Haynes, Rex Grossman, Tommie Harris, Cedric Benson,Greg Olsen, Chris Williams. Let's eliminate judging the last two, from 2007 and 2008, because they don't have enough on their résumés yet. Let's look at the other 12.

Stars: 1 (Urlacher).

Very good NFL starters: 1 (Tommie Harris).

NFL starters: 2 (Walt Harris, Marc Colombo).

Had some moments, but ultimately failed: 3 (Grossman, Thierry, Haynes).

Busts: 5 (Salaam, Enis, McNown, Terrell, Benson)."

[myzhi]

1. The key to the trade was Kyle Orton. Laugh if you want, but it's the absolute truth. McDaniels looked hard at tape of the available quarterbacks from teams that made serious offers, players like Orton, Washington's Jason Campbell and Tampa Bay's Luke McCown. Every one of those teams was in the ballpark with an offer of at least two first round draft picks and a quarterback.

For people saying Chicago gave too much, did you read the OP?

McDaniel went with Orton because he's the QB that was offered that had the most similar skill set to what he coached in Tom Brady / Matt Cassell. I remember hearing how Joe Gibbs drafted JC because he wanted another Doug Williams type player. Doug Williams was never a Tom Brady / Matt Cassell type player.

[KokoMike]

Exactly.... There isnt a player in the NFL I would trade JC and 2 1st rounders (and it would was probably more being offfered) for. Thats Nuts! Thanks Chicago for not letting us out stupid ourselves....

JC is not a player I would have ever traded 1, 3 & 4 draft picks for. It was a stupid trade which we are still paying for today.

With the logic of all these people letting Campbell off the hook because he can't learn any offense within a couple of years, how can we possibly consider signing Leftwich and expect him to perform?

There is surely a Campbell clause in his contract which states "You will not be judged in your first few years as a Redskin if the offense is changed or adjusted."

Stupid is as stupid does.

[Taylor 36]

But' date=' I don't think Cutler would have worked out with the skins just because [b']Snyder can't stay with the same coach or system for longer than two seasons.[/b]

It really upsets me when I read/hear the mediots say this uneducated, redicules crap, but to have a fan of this team that should be following this team more than most of the mainstream media say it, it really is just disgusting. Dan Snyer has not gotten rid of one coach or system in the past nine years.

Sure, he fired Norv, but, despite the timing, can you blame him. Norv has proven while here and since he left us that his skill is in O coordinator, not HC.

Marty, that was a bad move; however, that was his last fire of a coach.

Spurrier quit. Snyder had nothing to do with that. Snyder allowed Spurrier time and players to try and help his system work.

Gibbs retired, he was not fired. And, while here, Gibbs was the man in charge. It was Gibbs' call to bring in Saunders, not Snyder's.

Snyder has not changed anything besides hiring the guys his coach wants or hiring new coaches when the previous ones CHOSE to leave. So, please, get your facts straight.

[Oldfan]

Well, he did little during the stretch run to win those games, as I've already pointed out.

How do you support your statement? You eyeballed those games and isolated his performance from that of the other 10 players on the offense, the entire defense and special teams; or you cherry-picked some team stats for those games and called them QB stats? The opponent scored 37 points a game, didn't they?

He's got a long way to go before he becomes better than Young and Elway. Hell, he's not better than Phillip Rivers right now.

How did you determine that Young was better? Rivers is better? You have team stats that you'll label QB stats to support that argument, I suppose. Elway was talented, but better? I'm not sure. They're close.

[bubba9497]

We have crazy people on this site.

People in total denial.

perfect example of the old "pot calling the kettle black"

:rotflmao:

[Gibbs Hog Heaven]

I have your prediction down. Campbell will fail and Cutler and Orton will go to the pro bowl. Got it and we will talk halfway through the season if you are still around.

Did I miss something in this thread?

When did Lkb claim, or even infer for that matter, the both Jay Cutler and Kyle Orton will go to the Pro Bowl next year while Campbell sit's at home?

If your gona' debate with the dude, fine. But let's not start making things up about him to fit your stance. :doh:

Hail.

[brlawson]

We should all be done with any Bears QB talk or even about Orton. Give it up. We have Campbell as our starter, so we should deal with it. We'll resume comparisions week 9 2009 NFL season.

[Taylor 36]

If you knew anything about football you might realize that there are DIFFERENT systems and some are much more complicated and difficult to get down, and not everybody absorbs the information in the exact same manner.

Yes there are E-X-C-E-P-T-I-O-N-S to every example and every position in the NFL. Apparently you have tunnel vision, and believe everybody is exactly the same with exactly equal tools to work with and exactly equal learning curves.

So, by this post you finally admit that JC is slow at comprehending offenses. Got it. JC is NOT the same as other QB's, most notably the great ones like Brees. He has to take more time (seasons) on learning systems and skills than others, because that is HIS rate of absorbtion. Thanks. IT is about time you came around.

[bubba9497]

By the way' date=' are we really comparing Cutler to Jeff George now? I've seen that in a few posts.[/quote']

lets see,....

big, million dollar arm, 10 cent head

moody and immature

traded for 2 firsts and a third from original team (from AFC to NFC)

put up big numbers, also made big mistakes because of overconfidence

throws bunch of interceptions

had very public feud with head coach

both from Indiana

yep, nothing alike

And that may be the most idiotic thing that has ever been posted here. Which is saying a hell of a lot.

as long as your posting it won't come close to being the most idiotic thing that has ever been posted here

BTW the Jeff George comparison has been made in the media long before posted here.... Kiper, Banks, Judge.. and others have made it as well.

[Califan007 The Constipated]

How can he possibly prove he's a "playoff caliber QB" on his own? Please explain that to me.

1) By showing improved effectiveness and production when the playoffs are on the line. Instead, Cutler's effectiveness and production took a nose dive.

2) By helping get his team TO the playoffs. Instead, Denver lost a three-game lead with the playoffs on the line.

3) By displaying improved effectiveness and production once in the playoffs.

As of right now, Cutler has done none of these. That's why he hasn't proven he's a "playoff caliber QB". And that should be instantly obvious to anyone willing to look at Cutler with a realistic, open mind instead of a defensive, argumentative one.

Well, the Redskins front office, the Bears front office and I disagree. I think we were witnesses to NFL history -- the best young QB ever traded.

You realize you're lining your football intelligence up with Snyder's and Vinny's, and thinking it's a positive, right? lol... :cool:

[bubba9497]

And that should be instantly obvious to anyone willing to look at Cutler with a realistic, open mind instead of a defensive, argumentative one.

none are so blind, as those who refuse to see

[Oldfan]

lBTW the Jeff George comparison has been made in the media long before posted here.... Kiper, Banks, Judge.. and others have made it as well.

Mel Kiper loved Leinart in the 2006 draft. He struck out on Cutler. You don't suppose he's still hoping to stifle the public laughter about that, do you?

[jhug]

1)

You realize you're lining your football intelligence up with Snyder's and Vinny's, and thinking it's a positive, right? lol... :cool:

That's funny;)

[PROSCOUT]

So, by this post you finally admit that JC is slow at comprehending offenses. Got it. JC is NOT the same as other QB's, most notably the great ones like Brees. He has to take more time (seasons) on learning systems and skills than others, because that is HIS rate of absorbtion. Thanks. IT is about time you came around.

I have always said that Jason Campbell is slow to learn.Are you new here.

Seems like you want some sort of "Gotcha" post, but you won't find it here.

Seems you are the one who is slow to catch on. Let me break it down for you.

Jason takes time to learn a new system but once he gets it down he will perform. He simply has not had that opportunity yet. The ability to learn a new system also has to do with the ability to UNLEARN other systems and if your head is plummeted with new systems every single year, then there is also an UNLEARNING process that goes on. Throw in the fact that all the other players surrounding Jason also had to learn and unlearn and it can be very confusing, FOR THAT FIRST YEAR.

Give the guy a chance. You are just an armchair QB and critic and know very little about football and the innerworkings.

[ucfSKINS]

that jc quote at the end should be in size 200 font and bolded. Nice.

+1

[Califan007 The Constipated]

How do you support your statement? You eyeballed those games and isolated his performance from that of the other 10 players on the offense, the entire defense and special teams; or you cherry-picked some team stats for those games and called them QB stats? The opponent scored 37 points a game, didn't they?

Yeah, and Riggins didn't really improve his play in the playoffs back in 1982, even though his yards per carry and yards per game average both skyrocketed in the playoffs, and against better teams and better defenses. We'd be foolish to claim Riggins was a playoff-caliber running back, wouldn't we?

Same with Joe Montana...all of his effectiveness and production during those last-minute, pressure wins within the "Win or go home" environment of the playoffs and the Super Bowl really mean nothing, since hey, "stats are meaningless". In reality he's done nothing to prove himself no more a "playoff-caliber QB" than Cutler has, or Orton for that matter.

You know, the more I read your posts the more sense you make :yes:...

[Peregrine]

I think we would do well to all remember the last time a team gave up so many draft picks and swapped QBs.

Chargers got the best of that one, and I expect the Broncos will get the best of this one.

[Oldfan]

1) By showing improved effectiveness and production when the playoffs are on the line. Instead, Cutler's effectiveness and production took a nose dive.

2) By helping get his team TO the playoffs. Instead, Denver lost a three-game lead with the playoffs on the line.

3) By displaying improved effectiveness and production once in the playoffs.

I asked how he could prove he is playoff caliber on his own. You gave me three reasons that involve him playing for a team with a support system good enough to help him into the playoffs.

You realize you're lining your football intelligence up with Snyder's and Vinny's, and thinking it's a positive, right? lol... :cool:

Do you realize your position is aligned with such brilliant football minds as Wilbon, Theismann and Kiper? That alone should be a redflag warning to you.

Oh, and if you missed this in my earlier post, I have a few others in agreement:

From a 2007 ESPN article:

"The kid in Denver, to me he is the future of this league," an AFC pro scout said.

"I would jump on that boat," an NFC personnel director said. "He isn't quite there, but you see those flashes of a guy who, once he has the whole playbook in his mind and he's made all the mistakes he needs to make in learning it, man, he's going to be a special player.

"I love him," the AFC scout said. "He's athletic, poised, smart, accurate -- and there was just something about that kid coming out, the way he was wired."

"He has an unbelievable career ahead of him," the NFC personnel director said. "He is Romo sits to pee [in terms of confidence] with the physical tools to match. He's fun to watch because he's kind of like the kid who plays quarterback down at the playground. 'Let's just go play.

"He has a cannon of an arm, obviously, and when he's in the pocket, he has the arm strength to make all the throws," an NFC pro scout said. "Throw in the fact that he can move around and buy additional time, and he's got a pretty impressive arsenal in terms of ability and arm strength and feet."

Boomer Esiason's advice to the Jets before the trade to Chicago --- "I'm telling you, if I could get this kid, I would go guns a-blazing and try to get him," Esiason said. "I don't know what it would take, but he's a kid that can play here for the next 10 years

Jerry Angelo, Chicago's GM: "I've been looking for a quarterback like him [Cutler] for 27 years.

[Taylor 36]

I have always said that Jason Campbell is slow to learn.Are you new here.

Seems like you want some sort of "Gotcha" post, but you won't find it here.

Seems you are the one who is slow to catch on. Let me break it down for you.

Jason takes time to learn a new system but once he gets it down he will perform. He simply has not had that opportunity yet. The ability to learn a new system also has to do with the ability to UNLEARN other systems and if your head is plummeted with new systems every single year, then there is also an UNLEARNING process that goes on. Throw in the fact that all the other players surrounding Jason also had to learn and unlearn and it can be very confusing, FOR THAT FIRST YEAR.

Give the guy a chance. You are just an armchair QB and critic and no very little about football and the innerworkings.

You know so much, oh supreme one with a job in the NFL...Oh, wait! Plus, I love your spelling of the word "no". Shows the "know"ledge you have.

First, I'm not new here; I actually have almost seven YEARS on you. So, get off off the jackass that you think is a high horse.

Second, you completely took the post of the person you had quoted and revamped it to say something it did not. If that is fair for you to do, than it it fair for other posters, including myself, to do to you. Hence my post.

Now, stop acting like your the second coming of Vince Lambardi, turn off your Madden game, and go take a shower. :laugh:

[laurent]

When is the last time any trade for multiple 1st rounders worked out in the favor of the team giving up the picks?

Dallas - Galloway

North Carolina - Sean Gilbert

Tampa Bay - Keyshawn Johnson

Those are just the ones I can think of off the top of my head.

The Bears may very well end up bucking the trend, but considering their age at offensive line and their lack of wide receiving threats I seriously question just how wise it was to give up those picks.

We'll see.

I think Cutler may have been worth a shot for Washington, but not for what basically amounts to three first round picks, a second rounder and a bunch of lower round picks.

Further, trading for Cutler could very well have marred our future when you take into consideration that a contract extension is pretty much a must after giving up all of those picks.

[Hooper]

You know who the big loser in this trade is?

Cutler.

He's not going to be the same qb in Chicago -- at least not at first. Doesn't have the weapons, the linemen, and you simply don't throw for a ton of yards in that stadium.

And the expectations are going to be out of control.

He owned the city of Denver. He should have sucked it up and been the bigger man. Instead, he made the situation worse.