SI: MMQB: Jason Campbell tidbits

[Califan007 The Constipated]

I don't think people on this board realize how much improvement Orton showed last year. He's not the same QB we played in 05 by any stretch.

For the first half of the season, maybe...but the 2nd half of the season it would seem his play deteriorated. Sound familiar? I only say that because everyone keeps saying how Campbell's performance and production in the 1st half of the season should be tossed out, and what he did down the stretch should be the only thing used to define him...so I apply that same rationale to Orton, and Cutler for that matter.

I didn't watch any of the Bears games, so I'm not about to pretend I "saw" something lacking in Orton's play. But just going on stats, Orton in his last 8 games last year went:

129/235

55% completion rate

163 yards per game

5.5 yards per attempt

8 TDs

8 INTs

68.1 QB rating

5-3 record

He only threw for more than 175 yards twice in those 8 games.

If that's considered "much improvement", Orton must have REALLY sucked eggs before then.

For comparison's sake, here's how Campbell and Cutler did in their last 8 games:

Campbell:

163/276

59% completion rate

186 yards per game

5.4 yards per attempt

5 TDs

6 INTs

70.8 QB rating

2-6 record

He only threw for more than 175 yards four times in those 8 games.

Considering how Campbell's 2nd half of the season performance is ridiculed as evidence he won't ever succeed, it's kind of telling that Orton's production was very similar to Campbell's, and in some cases even worse. The Bear's record was better in those 8 games, but did those 3 extra TDs by Orton lead directly to 3 extra wins for the Bears? Would three extra TDs by Campbell have pushed the Skins to an 11-5 record? Who knows, maybe it would have.

Culter:

197/316

62% completion rate

295 yards per game

7.5 yards per attempt

10 TDs

8 INTs

85.1 QB rating

4-4 record

He threw for more than 175 yards in seven of those eight games.

Cutler is obviously more than a few steps above both Campbell and Orton at the moment. Denver may have arguably ended up with the worst QB of the three, to be honest. I still don't see how you trade Cutler away...whether or not he was disgruntled is irrelevant in my mind. Chad Johnson was disgruntled as well, and the Bengals still have him on the roster.

Cutler was throwing the ball a helluva lot in Denver, though...damn. something like 40 attempt a game average! I wonder how much he'll be throwing in Chicago, with their better running game and their better defense?

[Oldfan]

Cutler is obviously more than a few steps above both Campbell and Orton at the moment. Denver may have arguably ended up with the worst QB of the three, to be honest. I still don't see how you trade Cutler away...whether or not he was disgruntled is irrelevant in my mind. Chad Johnson was disgruntled as well, and the Bengals still have him on the roster.

I think the first question is why did Denver hire McDaniels. Matt Bowen called the Patriots scheme a "WCO out of a shotgun." It's designed for smart QBs with good accuracy and otherwise limited talent.

Cutler has the kind of talent the OC can use to get more production from a limited support system. That's probably the only thing Shanahan got right. Why change it?

Jason Campbell was selected by Gibbs for the Coryell, which is losing ground in today's NFL. He doesn't have the ideal tools for our system or McDaniels', but Zorn's work with him gives Jason a chance to have some success.

Orton will fit the scheme that McDaniel's will run better than Campbell.

[FrFan]

But once McDaniels decided Orton was his man -- even though Washington's first-round pick would have been the 13th overall, five slots ahead of Chicago's -- the contest was over. The 'Skins were out of it, even though Cutler and greater Washington were sure it almost happened.

So basically the Bears bite it too quickly, they could have had Cutler for less.

[milliondollarslim]

our offense just needs quality o-line play and top level pass blocking. Only Jesus could have been successful behind our second half o-line last season.

[Justsomeguy]

Campbell will come into his own this year and for the record has gotten better every year he has been here.

[Buck812]

or Chicago gave up a King's ransom for possibly the next Jeff George

That is the part that could wind up being a blessing in disguise, it was the Bears over paying, not the Skins

Exactly.... There isnt a player in the NFL I would trade JC and 2 1st rounders (and it would was probably more being offfered) for. Thats Nuts! Thanks Chicago for not letting us out stupid ourselves....

[Rdskn4Lyf21]

**** yards. We don't need yards. We need points. The offense needs to average 25-30 points a game.

The thing is even during our first 8 games we only averaged 20 ppg. Something needs to change on offense. Isn't insanity doing the same thing over and over again and expecting different results?

[Smoot Point Really]

or Chicago gave up a King's ransom for possibly the next Jeff George

That is the part that could wind up being a blessing in disguise, it was the Bears over paying, not the Skins

Why do people keep referring to him as Jeff George? Just because he is disgruntled? Have people even compared his stats to Jeff George? Jeff George hadn't even thrown for 3K yards by the time he was 25.. Jeff George had only thrown more than 25 TDs once in his career...

I'm a big homer... I just can't see running down another player just because we didn't land him.

[Califan007 The Constipated]

I'm a big homer... I just can't see running down another player just because we didn't land him.

I don't think the Jeff George comparisons are due to us not landing Cutler...I think they're due to his perceived combination of pro-level talent and ****ty, immature attitude...because the Jeff George comparisons started WAY before the Bears got him.

[Califan007 The Constipated]

I think the first question is why did Denver hire McDaniels. Matt Bowen called the Patriots scheme a "WCO out of a shotgun." It's designed for smart QBs with good accuracy and otherwise limited talent.

Cutler has the kind of talent the OC can use to get more production from a limited support system. That's probably the only thing Shanahan got right. Why change it?

Jason Campbell was selected by Gibbs for the Coryell, which is losing ground in today's NFL. He doesn't have the ideal tools for our system or McDaniels', but Zorn's work with him gives Jason a chance to have some success.

Orton will fit the scheme that McDaniel's will run better than Campbell.

Those are good points...and people were wondering last offseason how well Jason Campbell would fit into a version of the WCO, so it would not be a surprise of McDaniels reached the conclusion that he wouldn't be a good fit for Denver. And McDaniels might be able to elevate orton's play and get a few good years from him while grooming "his" hand-picked drafted QB.

Still, I really don't get trading Cutler lol...

[fansince62]

That is what we have to hope for.

And for the rest of the article, hopefully this squashes the last of the 1% of posters who still claim that we didn't offer up JC in trade, or that we weren't interested.

To that 1%, seriously people, get out of the twilight zone, and into reality.

and the real implication behind that activity: the Skins do not view JC as a franchise QB. not now anyway.

[Hubbs]

"I still went and worked out. My teammates said, 'Jason, why are you here?' And I told them: 'I'm still the quarterback of this team until they get rid of me. You haven't seen the best of me. I'm not here for ownership. I won't miss days working out with you, and I won't miss time preparing for the season. Who knows? A trade may not work out.' ''

That's a great quote.

[fansince62]

Why do people keep referring to him as Jeff George? Just because he is disgruntled? Have people even compared his stats to Jeff George? Jeff George hadn't even thrown for 3K yards by the time he was 25.. Jeff George had only thrown more than 25 TDs once in his career...

I'm a big homer... I just can't see running down another player just because we didn't land him.

because it's an easy...mindless sort of thing to do. these are the same people...mind you...who are the first to jump in when it suits their purposes with "You have no idea what the FO thinks. You do not know the players or what's going on behind the scenes."

[DCMONEY]

We can debate which QB is better and all that. The fact of the matter, its a team sport. We've seen QB's in this league have outstanding stats and not make the playoffs. We've seen some QB's have avergage #'s and win Superbowls. One year the Steelers won the Superbowl in the 70's and I think their QB's combined had more int's than TD's. People sometimes pull up stats and feel they're the begin all tell all. A lot of times if you haven't seen that QB play then you don't know how things unfolded. Just looking at stats doesn't always tell the story. I've seen Orton play and he's an average QB at best to me. He was a pretty good record as a starter though. Now if someone goes off win loss records, then Orton's there man. I've said this before but some team win despite plays made or lack of plays made from their QB. Like Big Ben's regular season this year. It was nothing special at all but the Steelers still won the Superbowl.

[Oldfan]

or Chicago gave up a King's ransom for possibly the next Jeff George

That is the part that could wind up being a blessing in disguise, it was the Bears over paying, not the Skins

Other experts (besides me ) think more highly of Jay Cutler than you do.

From a 2007 ESPN article:

"The kid in Denver, to me he is the future of this league," an AFC pro scout said.

"I would jump on that boat," an NFC personnel director said. "He isn't quite there, but you see those flashes of a guy who, once he has the whole playbook in his mind and he's made all the mistakes he needs to make in learning it, man, he's going to be a special player.

"I love him," the AFC scout said. "He's athletic, poised, smart, accurate -- and there was just something about that kid coming out, the way he was wired."

"He has an unbelievable career ahead of him," the NFC personnel director said. "He is Romo sits to pee [in terms of confidence] with the physical tools to match. He's fun to watch because he's kind of like the kid who plays quarterback down at the playground. 'Let's just go play.

"He has a cannon of an arm, obviously, and when he's in the pocket, he has the arm strength to make all the throws," an NFC pro scout said. "Throw in the fact that he can move around and buy additional time, and he's got a pretty impressive arsenal in terms of ability and arm strength and feet."

Boomer Esiason's advice to the Jets before the trade to Chicago --- "I'm telling you, if I could get this kid, I would go guns a-blazing and try to get him," Esiason said. "I don't know what it would take, but he's a kid that can play here for the next 10 years

Jerry Angelo, Chicago's GM: "I've been looking for a quarterback like him [Cutler] for 27 years.

[Skin'Em84]

I love that quote by Jason. That shouldn't be ignored.

[Oldfan]

I don't think the Jeff George comparisons are due to us not landing Cutler...I think they're due to his perceived combination of pro-level talent and ****ty, immature attitude...because the Jeff George comparisons started WAY before the Bears got him.

It doesn't matter when they started. It's an argument that would only be convincing to people who already agree that Cutler's going to be a bust. I don't see the point in it.

Besides, the Elway comparison is more apt, both in ability and the prima donna attitude. But, that comparison wouldn't work for those who want to bash the kid senselessly.

[Big Mac Patty Wack]

In the end, Chicago got a potentially great long-term quarterback (when's the last time, if ever, a 4,000-yard passer got traded at age 25?)

That is the part that hurts.

What a rare opportunity. Oh well, just have to hope for the best.

Potentially. That is the key. He is not yet proven as a great quarterback.

[Oldfan]

Potentially. That is the key. He is not yet proven as a great quarterback.

He has proven he has great ability. That's all he can prove.

He needs luck to be regarded as a great quarterback because he has to land with a team that can give him all the support required to win championships.

[PleaseGoForTheWin]

Well two first rounders and Jason Campbell are far too great for Cutler anyway. McDaniels is now on my Christmas card list.

Pretty much sums it up. Is Cutler an improvement over JC? Probably, but man, two firsts, JC, and a third? That's WAY too much compensation for one guy...

[TheLongshot]

Other experts (besides me ) think more highly of Jay Cutler than you do.

He has proven he has great ability. That's all he can prove.

Which is the same you could say about Jeff George, which is the reason why he kept getting chances despite his ultimate failures wherever he goes. As you say, he's proved nothing other than he has some great ability. Whether that translates into a playoff caliber QB the jury is still out on.

In any case, I don't think what he's shown so far is worth 2 1st round picks and a starting caliber QB. In fact, I think the only way you can get a deal like this done is if you don't think much of the QB that you are trading, which is definitely true of Orton. I doubted the deal gets done with us because our team values Campbell more.

[Dan T.]

Other experts (besides me ) think more highly of Jay Cutler than you do.

From a 2007 ESPN article:

"The kid in Denver, to me he is the future of this league," an AFC pro scout said...

"I would jump on that boat," an NFC personnel director said. ...

"I love him," the AFC scout said. "He's athletic, poised, smart, accurate

"He has an unbelievable career ahead of him," the NFC personnel director said...

"He has a cannon of an arm, obviously, and when he's in the pocket, he has the arm strength to make all the throws," an NFC pro scout said. ...

Boomer Esiason's advice to the Jets before the trade to Chicago --- "I'm telling you, if I could get this kid, I would go guns a-blazing and try to get him...

Jerry Angelo, Chicago's GM: "I've been looking for a quarterback like him [Cutler] for 27 years...

And yet Josh McDaniel did his damndest to trade for Cassell and drop Cutler. Which is perhaps the biggest mystery in all this. I can see McDaniel wanting a guy he was familiar with, but that's a flimsy reason to kick a guy with Cutler's tools to the curb. If you're handed a new team with a quarterback of Cutler's potential, why shake things up like that?

[Gibbs Hog Heaven]

Pretty much sums it up. Is Cutler an improvement over JC? Probably, but man, two firsts, JC, and a third? That's WAY too much compensation for one guy...

Two firsts and a third, the QB's would be a straight swap.

And I'd argue the contrary, that if your solidifying the most important position on the team for the next decade or so, with a young player who has all the intangibles to be a top echelon QB in this league, and whom many think is well on the way to being, Chicago paid a reasonable price for Cutler.

Will he turn out to be value for the picks paid? Time will tell, and there's an element of risk with any acquisition, be it draft or trade. But when a young player well on his way to becoming a franchise QB comes on the market, it's a risk against reward that's MORE than worth the gamble.

Mores the pity it was Chicago and not ourselves who got their man.

Hail.

[TheLongshot]

And yet Josh McDaniel did his damnest to trade for Cassell and drop Cutler. Which is perhaps the biggest mystery in all this. I can see McDaniel wanting a guy he was familiar with, but that's a flimsy reasons to kick a guy with Cutler's tools to the curb. If you're handed a new team with a quarterback of Cutler's potential, why shake things up like that?

That's the thing in all of this. They didn't HAVE to trade Cutler, yet they decided at some point that it would be a good idea to do so. Either you have to question the decisionmaking of the people involved (which is wide open with thinking that Orton is a better option than Cutler) or there is something about Cutler that McDaniels doesn't like.

[MartinC]

And yet Josh McDaniel did his damnest to trade for Cassell and drop Cutler. Which is perhaps the biggest mystery in all this. I can see McDaniel wanting a guy he was familiar with, but that's a flimsy reasons to kick a guy with Cutler's tools to the curb. If you're handed a new team with a quarterback of Cutler's potential, why shake things up like that?

Either McDaniels saw something in Cutler on film or in meetings he really did not like or he plain just screwed up the whole process aided by Cutler acting like a 3 year old.

He clearly had a question about Cutlers fit for 'his' system hence him exporing trying to get his boy Cassell.

Whatever McDaniels as made a tactical mistake in my view. By being implicated in Cutler leaving he had better win this year because if things dont go well - especially with the QB who starts - he may well not get a second year in Denver which he woud almost certainly have got had he just stuck with Cutler.

He has put himself right on the hot seat.