NFC East Draft Order. Redskins need a magician to compete.

[glsjr2277]

I've been a Skins follower for 50 years. I'll shed a little light on what we're up against. Our division is the best in football. If we're going anywhere we have to win in the East. In the 09 Draft. Dallas has 11 pics, 5 in the first 156 players. Giants have 10 pics, 7 in the first 151 players. Eagles have 8 pics in the first 157 players. Including 2 first round pics. We have 3 pics in the first 150 players. Get the picture? Out of the first 157 players in this years draft we have 3 pics. Our Division rivals have a combined 20 pics. They also have an additional 12 pics, to our 2 for latter rounds. Big problem. While never being a Cerrato fan I was impressed last year when we traded out of our 21st pick with the Falcons and moved to the 2nd round with extra pics. I had also graded Thomas,Davis, and Kelly as late 1st rounders. Rhinehart was an animal in College at LT, we'll know this year. Tryon in the 4th round. No comment. Surprise with Horton, came from an excellent USC program. At 13 this year we have to go OT if any of the top 4 are there. Or DE if someone drops. To early for LB. If not we need to trade down and get extra pics. The OT class and LB class is deep. All may fall, if Stafford and Sanchez go early. Patience is the key here. Last year several teams moved up, Falcons, Ravens to get Flacco,ect. My call is trade out of 13 unless you get one of the four top rated OT's. Go back in the 1st and get Britton, the 5th rated OT from Arizona or a DE. Go OLB in the 2nd, and DE in the 3rd. 5th,6th, and 7th. Best player available.

[IbleedBnG83]

My only argument is that you are putting too much emphasis on rookies. The draft is a crap shoot. Yes, there are teams with great scouting departments that can bolster a team right away. Yet, the teams we face are already competitive. For more than one to two rookies to make an impact in the first year is a lot to ask.

So I won't say that this years draft class will effect us right now but perhaps in the future.

The Redskins did compensate by securing Hall, signing Haynesworth and Dockery. A three positions of need. If they can manage to trade down, that will leave them with at least 3 picks in the first three rounds. That would leave them with 1st, 2nd, 3rd, 5th, 6th, and 7th, leaving only the fourth round with out a pick. That is pretty good, especially since the Redskins have done well with their late rounds.

[Redskins:Victory_or_Death]

My only argument is that you are putting too much emphasis on rookies. The draft is a crap shoot. Yes, there are teams with great scouting departments that can bolster a team right away. Yet, the teams we face are already competitive. For more than one to two rookies to make an impact in the first year is a lot to ask.

So I won't say that this years draft class will effect us right now but perhaps in the future.

The Redskins did compensate by securing Hall, signing Haynesworth and Dockery. A three positions of need. If they can manage to trade down, that will leave them with at least 3 picks in the first three rounds. That would leave them with 1st, 2nd, 3rd, 5th, 6th, and 7th, leaving only the fourth round with out a pick. That is pretty good, especially since the Redskins have done well with their late rounds.

Exactly.

Also: The Enter Key is your friend.

[Portis for 6]

Horton went to ucla...

[Gibbs Hog Heaven]

This amused the Hell out of me during the Cutler trade talks.

"We need to build through the draft"; "we need to stop trading picks", yada yada.

All relevant, and in principle, I agree. But there's not much we can do this year out in reality.

Besides the fact that we can do little in this draft, shy of trading down, (which I doubt we'll do given or BPA philosophy), and even then, the chances of getting someone to start is slim; remind me exactly who is charged with evaluating and picking this "talent." Who's that? A Vinny someone? :doh:

Hopefully, we'll strengthen the depth the best we can, but the chances of us picking up top class talent that can start week 1, or even in the future, are pretty darn slim.

All thing's considered, Chicago took just as big a risk for reward as using those picks in the draft. Even less when you consider their not starting from scratch with rookies that may or may not be.

Mores the pity that wasn't us.

Hail.

[Superbowl Mohawk]

The Giants lost Plaxico, and Spags (D.C) The Cowboys lost T.O, The Eagles lost Buckhalter and Dawkins. We lost to the NYG twice, plax had 10 catches for 133 yards in season opener. We split with the cow dorks and beat philly twice last year. A magician to compete?!?! Really??? As stated here rookies just dont have the coaches trust and wont make a serious impact as a whole. A player or two might like a Desean Jackson, but he wore down as the season progressed if I recall correctly. I think WE are the team along with Dallas with sumthin to prove and got a chip on our shoulders this year! Lets try and trade down for depth and hope to get a starter in one of our need spots by years end. Hail.

[NoVaSkins21]

This amused the Hell out of me during the Cutler trade talks.

"We need to build through the draft"; "we need to stop trading picks", yada yada.

All relevant, but there's not much we can do this year out in reality.

Besides the fact that we can do little in this draft, shy of trading down, and even then, the chances of getting someone to start is slim; remind me exactly who is charged with evaluating and picking this "talent." Who's that? A Vinny someone? :doh:

Hopefully, we'll strengthen the depth the best we can, but the chances of us picking up top class talent that can start week 1, or even in the future, are pretty darn slim.

All thing's considered, Chicago took just as big a risk for reward as using those picks in the draft. Even less when you consider their not starting from scratch with rookies that may or may not be. Mores the pity that wasn't us.

Hail.

You're right. It's a freaking vicious cycle. We want to build the draft with more picks, but the person responsible for assembling that talent, Vinny, is the same one who trades away those precious picks. It's a lose-lose battle.

[PROSCOUT]

My reply to this thread is SO WHAT?

If the Giants have 20 picks, so what? None of the 3 teams we oppose are rebuilding so having 20 picks or 50 picks doesn't help. They are not going to make those clubs.

We have 2 solid picks right now, a FIRST and a THIRD. We filled 2 major slots in the free agent market already, and perhaps 3 if Wynn and Daniels can combine to stuff the run again. If any of those teams OR if the Redskins are hoping that a ROOKIE will come in and "save the day", then that team is in deep trouble.

Unless you are rebuilding, you use Free agency to build for next year and strengthen your team for a playoff run. You use ROOKIES and the DRAFT for rebuilding. Get it now.

[HighOnHendrix]

Unless you are rebuilding, you use Free agency to build for next year and strengthen your team for a playoff run. You use ROOKIES and the DRAFT for rebuilding. Get it now.

I think that you can't build any team through just the draft or just through FA. You need to have a balance between the two, sort of like the run vs. the pass in playcalling. Then there's trade possibilities, knowing which ones to jump on and which ones to avoid (see Cutler, Jay). Going all-out one way or the other is simplistic and wrong.

[FrFan]

We sure need a magic scout to get the very best out of a very few picks.

[Justsomeguy]

If we get even one good pickup in the draft then it will be a success, just like last year we at least got Horton which made me a happy man. Most picks aren't worth much but 1 good one is all you can expect/hope for.

[Burgold]

If the others draft well, we will need a magician to compete in 2-5 years. This draft has some impact on 09, but good teams which unfortunately the Cowboys, Giants, and Eagles are don't depend or get a lot out of rooks. As a contrarian I might point out, with that many picks, several certainly won't make the team or a steady vet must get cut which might in the short term hurt those teams.

[redskins2473]

Skins have the starting talent to compete with all its NFC east foes. Where they will be exposed if injuries run rampant is at depth. They simply don't have the personnel behind the starters at key positions to succeed. They've done well to fortify some positions like CB but beyond that, they are awful thin.

[Chump Bailey]

Eh, the last time I checked, having a stockpile of draft picks, especially in the early to mid rounds, is a good thing. The OP is right in that regard and that is also why VC has said he is looking to trade down in an effort to acquire more. The team is also looking for their first selection to contribute immediately. You build a foundation via the draft and augment with FA. I think that's a smart and prudent way to go about it.

[paintrain]

The Giants having a bunch of picks is something to take note of, the Eagles also do well but before and after Parcells, the Cowboys draft record is way worse than ours. Remember before Parcells arrived, the Cowboys were a sub .500 team for a few years based on Jerry's drafting. Last year other than Felix Jones I don't think they had a great draft and this year I'm not worried.

We've always supplemented the draft with our aggressive FA spending, for better or worse, so this year is one of those years. If we can trade down and pick up an extra pick or two, having 16 picks (10 last year, maybe 6 this year) over 2 years is called in most franchises 'building thru the draft'.

[Thirtyfive2seven]

The Giants lost Plaxico, and Spags (D.C) The Cowboys lost T.O, The Eagles lost Buckhalter and Dawkins. We lost to the NYG twice, plax had 10 catches for 133 yards in season opener. We split with the cow dorks and beat philly twice last year.

Good points, but I think Dallas losing TO and the other bad apples is a blessing for them. Less distractions, new stadium (more fans, louder crowd), etc..

I'm sure the Giants will find a way to compensate losing Plex. I agree, the offense stunk late last year without him but the Giants always seem to find a replacement.

The Eagles are a crap shoot.

[Gibbs Hog Heaven]

Good points, but I think Dallas losing TO and the other bad apples is a blessing for them. Less distractions, new stadium (more fans, louder crowd), etc..

I'm sure the Giants will find a way to compensate losing Plex. I agree, the offense stunk late last year without him but the Giants always seem to find a replacement.

The Eagles are a crap shoot.

I sadly feel the same.

I'm fully expecting Dallas to bounce back and challenge NY strong for the division this year.

Hail.

[PROSCOUT]

I think that you can't build any team through just the draft or just through FA. You need to have a balance between the two, sort of like the run vs. the pass in playcalling. Then there's trade possibilities, knowing which ones to jump on and which ones to avoid (see Cutler, Jay). Going all-out one way or the other is simplistic and wrong.

That is obvious. Everybody uses free agency. You simply missed the point.

This thread was about how the Skins are at a disadvantage because the other teams have 20 draft picks and we have 3 or whatever.

None of the teams are going to start more than even 1 rookie on opening day so having a million draft picks is worthless in a division which EVERYBODY feels they are a contender because the starting lineups are not awaiting rookie saviors.

[Forehead]

You want more pics, go to the babe draft threads. I'm pretty sure the currency during the NFL draft is picks.

Yeah, Dallas has a bunch of selections; their first one is at #51, so while they may have 5 in the top whatever, they have none in the top 50. More than half of Dallas's draft this year is in the 5th and 6th rounds. They might find one solid contributor there, maybe two if they're lucky.

I don't think we need a magician to compete, just a healthier offensive line should go a long ways.

[Thirtyfive2seven]

That is obvious. Everybody uses free agency. You simply missed the point.

This thread was about how the Skins are at a disadvantage because the other teams have 20 draft picks and we have 3 or whatever.

None of the teams are going to start more than even 1 rookie on opening day so having a million draft picks is worthless in a division which EVERYBODY feels they are a contender because the starting lineups are not awaiting rookie saviors.

I agree completely but it does help to have the added youth and depth

[Dick Edds]

agree with the OP's sentiments. The fact that Dallass, NY and Philly have so many picks allows them more flexibility come draft day and when making their final rosters. It's not that half of their draft picks won't make the final roster that makes the number of draft picks a wash, it's the fact that they have the ability to groom players and set them up for success in the future and do not have to make knee jerk reactions that will affect their ability to sign other players. They can actually have competition at EVERY position, which makes their team stronger and more able to compete in December/Jan/Feb

We can pretend that we're "ok" all we want ... but until we start placing more value on the draft, we're never going to have a roster that is full of depth and able to make a seamless transition between players WHEN injuries occur.

We always have to cross our fingers and "hope" we don't sustain injuries at some positions, more than others. We roll the dice WAAAAY to much IMO in those regards, because we essentially have no other option with so few picks.

Here's to hoping Vinny can make another trade down and recoup at least a 2nd rounder or a 3rd & a 4th.

[Art]

Skins have the best defense in the division.

Skins have the best tight end in the division.

Skins have the best runner in the division.

With Owens and Plax gone, Skins probably have the best receiver in the division.

It won't take a magician to win, but, it will take something other than the weakest QB in the division.

[paredskinsfan]

Skins have the best defense in the division.

Skins have the best tight end in the division.

Skins have the best runner in the division.

With Owens and Plax gone, Skins probably have the best receiver in the division.

It won't take a magician to win, but, it will take something other than the weakest QB in the division.

Half-time adjustments would'nt hurt either.

[Zhouse]

I see what the OP is trying to say. By having more picks you increase the probability of landing a stud! But like others have said if we can get lucky and make smart picks we can still take the top seed in the division.

But there's more to this than picks and FA....injuries will have a bigger impact.

[Going Commando]

Your numbers are gloomy but they are slightly inaccurate and presented in a way that makes them seem worse than they really are. Using pick 150 is an arbitrary number and in addition is pretty late in the draft, you might as well have just dissected the entire draft or gone with "first day" (rounds 1-3) to discuss, since it is very rare that impact starters and immediate contributors are found in rounds 4-7.

First, it makes sense for the Cowboys to have 5 choices within the first 156 picks because that number encompasses pretty much the first 5 rounds. Second, I would hardly call their draft position ideal because their first pick is at 51, and three of the 5 choices you describe are in round 4 or later. They may have more mid-round picks, but its highly unlikely that they will be able to turn them into impact rookies. Thus, the Cowboys have the same number of first day picks that we do, and they are later than ours.

I'm guessing the 7 Giants picks you are referring to are their 1st, two 2nds, two 3rds, 4th and two 5ths. Technically, that's only 6 choices within the first 151 picks since the second 5th is pick 167. Also, with the exception of the mid 2nd rounder the Giants acquired from New Orleans, they pick at or near the end of every round. Yes they can come away with a really good class, given that they have 5 first day picks, but it is a long time until the draft, and I still think they are going to put a package together to get a receiver via trade since their championship window is now and they have few needs. So their draft order can completely change.

To me, the Eagles have far and away the best draft position this year thanks to the Carolina trade from last year. They retained their pick in each round, in addition to getting that second first round pick. But they also have three 5th round picks, thanks to acquiring one each from the Jets, Patriots, and Browns. But again, the bulk of their draft comes in the late rounds. Sure they have 4 pretty early first day picks, but again they are picking in the bottom half of each round.

Basically, you make another argument for trading down for additional picks which is generally sound. But once again, it all depends on how the draft plays out ahead of us. Obviously there can be greater value in drafting a player at 13 who are scouts see as having pro-bowl potential than trading down to pick players who project as simply eventual starters.

Plus, our team has relatively few immediate positional needs that need to be addressed in the draft. RT is the biggest, followed by SSLB and LE, and then K/P which will be addressed in FA. We could probably use a RG to develop but we have yet to see what Rinehart can become. Similarly, Wilson and Blades will get a look at SSLB so that could be far less pressing of a need then we thought, and we have a large rotation of players to try at LE. Except at RT, we are not desperate for immediate help.

My point is, the results of this draft are not going to determine the pecking order of the division next season. Maybe several seasons down the road we will feel the impact, but we had a strong class last year that has yet to materialize, so if we are able to come away with a pro-bowl caliber player and maybe one or two more eventual starters from this draft, it will be a great class.