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Danny: Not a Jerk...Just Knee Jerk


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Facts often get in the way of a good rant, and Snyder's first spending spree in 2000 is often used by writers and fans as an example of idiocy in action. You asked in the first post I responded to whether we needed Deion Sanders, et al. In 1999 we had the 30th ranked defense, we signed Sanders and Smith and Carrier and we were 4th the next year. 26th vs the pass in '99, 2nd in 2000.

You're also letting facts get in the way and falsely associating those players with the defensive improvement. We all watched that team. Bruce Smith had a decent season but that's it. The improvement didn't have anything to do with Deion and it sure as hell didn't have anything to do with Mark Carrier.

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Just for grins, the money spent on Archuletta, what could we have done with it that year to have been a better team?

Re-sign Ryan Clark?

Bad example though because that would only have cost 1/6th of the money that we spent on Archuletta.

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Just for grins, the money spent on Archuletta, what could we have done with it that year to have been a better team?

Re-sign Ryan Clark?

Bad example though because that would only have cost 1/6th of the money that we spent on Archuletta.

Again with the money. (My whole point entering this thread is that the money doesn't matter.)

So losing Clark made the difference between 10-6 and a Super Bowl?

Or is it just a gripe that doesn't disprove what I said?

~Bang

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Maybe not Arch Deluxe.....but I can think of a certain WR now in Buffalo we could've signed instead of the two chumps we did sign at that position that would've been more beneficial.

Of course, not doing the whole Saunders fiasco would've helped too.

Now you're talkin' down in the nitty gritty.

As I said in another post I don't always agree with what Snyder has done, but his job is to get his coaches who they ask for, and then it's up to them to make it work.

~Bang

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Just for grins, the money spent on Archuletta, what could we have done with it that year to have been a better team?

Again with the money. (My whole point entering this thread is that the money doesn't matter.)

So losing Clark made the difference between 10-6 and a Super Bowl?

Or is it just a gripe that doesn't disprove what I said?

~Bang

Irrespective of the money, Ryan Clark is a good player. Archuletta is a bad player. That being said, yes it would have benefitted the team to spend a fraction of the money we spent on Archuletta to re-sign Clark.

Would it have won us the Superbowl? Probably not but that's such an illogical argument and justification that it's a moot point.

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You're also letting facts get in the way and falsely associating those players with the defensive improvement. We all watched that team. Bruce Smith had a decent season but that's it. The improvement didn't have anything to do with Deion and it sure as hell didn't have anything to do with Mark Carrier.

I'll give you Carrier, but when the Redskins go from bottom five in the league to #2 in pass defense, and bottom five to #4 in overall defense, you have to look at something as the cause.

There's two possible reasons.

One, Ray Rhodes was a friggin' genius. (And we know that isn't true)

Two, the players had something to do with it.

if you've got some other reason that "we all watched" when seeing that large of a defensive turnaround, I'd love to hear what it is. To sit back and say the influx of high quality players on the defensive side of the ball had nothing to do with it is simply ignoring the trees when walking through the forest.

~Bang

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It never makes a hill of beans of difference. Thinking back on how better to have spent money is way over-simplifying why a team or season isn't successful.

And really, why the hell does anyone care that "people talk"?

Now, I'm not saying all of Snyder's moves are gems, and I'm not saying he hasn't made more than his fair share of stinkers, but I AM saying that as fans, the contracts are really one of the smallest things to ever worry about. For one, we rarely ever know the code with which to decipher all the cryptic clauses that spells out exactly how the money is actually paid and how it actually affects the cap. And secondly, since they re-work the things before the ink is dry half the time, they never get in our way especially when we want to make a move.

Facts often get in the way of a good rant, and Snyder's first spending spree in 2000 is often used by writers and fans as an example of idiocy in action. You asked in the first post I responded to whether we needed Deion Sanders, et al. In 1999 we had the 30th ranked defense, we signed Sanders and Smith and Carrier and we were 4th the next year. 26th vs the pass in '99, 2nd in 2000.

But it was splashy, Deion embarrassed us by running out with the money, and the bottom line is the defense improved drastically. we spent one year in the so called "Cap Hell" everyone is so afraid of. (03)

Just for grins, the money spent on Archuletta, what could we have done with it that year to have been a better team? Is there anyone we could have signed that would have been the difference between the 10-6 playoff team we were in 2005, and a Super Bowl team?

~Bang

Mr. Bang... Sir... You asked a simple question. You received a simple answer. The answer was not one you wanted to hear. For that I am sorry...

The "talking people" are fans and radio people and other people, too! Those people have the freedom to discuss just about any topic they like. The NFL releases information, people discuss it. It's actually pretty neat the way it works.

As far as the Men In Black/Lord of the Rings "cryptic code deciphering", I'm actually not sure of your point exact point. But, the those silly NFL people say things like "$100 million dollars", "$41M guaranteed" or "$31M in the first 18 months of the contract" I think they might be sending us a clue, which some people will in turn use during conversations.

The salary cap total and the number of roster spots are what matter. That's the part I follow. I live the rest to the sorcerers.

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Irrespective of the money, Ryan Clark is a good player. Archuletta is a bad player. That being said, yes it would have benefitted the team to spend a fraction of the money we spent on Archuletta to re-sign Clark.

Would it have won us the Superbowl? Probably not but that's such an illogical argument and justification that it's a moot point.

If by "that's such an illogical argument and justification" you mean "I cannot refute what you wrote", than that is about right.

I'd love to have kept Clark too. Bottom line of my point remains the same. Contracts = by and large meaningless arguments among fans. If they hindered us in moving on players we need or want, then fine, but they don't.

The reasons we've been an average team over the last five or so years hasn't got anything to do with the money that has been spent. There are other culprits that make more sense.

~Bang

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Gosh, condescension is so much fun isn't it?

Here let me try some myself.

Mr. Bang... Sir... You asked a simple question. You received a simple answer. The answer was not one you wanted to hear. For that I am sorry...

The answer's I've received don't answer my point. Can you please give me an example in which we gave out a contract that prevented us from doing pretty much whatever we have wanted to do? Can you recall a free agent target we have coveted that we have NOT moved on for reasons of salary cap?

The "talking people" are fans and radio people and other people, too! Those people have the freedom to discuss just about any topic they like. The NFL releases information, people discuss it. It's actually pretty neat the way it works.

REALLY? Oh my I am learning so much here. It really DOES sound neat the way you describe it! Now, here's what I don't get.

Why the **** do you or anyone else care what any of these jackoffs have to say?

It'd be peachy keen if you could tell me what it is that bunches your panties so much when a smart fella like Colin Cowherd nails our stupid hides to the wall. I mean, I don't like hearing it either, but I recognize he's an idiot and is usually clueless beyond the show notes his producer hands him during the commercial.

Maybe it just sounds more official when it comes out of Don Banks' keyboard, or off of Jason LaCanfora's computer. (By the way, he should get a new one, don't you think? the one he has types out an awful lot of erroneous information)

See, I know the NFL has all sorts of radio guys and TV clowns that talk and blather and yap all day and all nght about all kinds of crap, and you know what? I've found they're not always as smart as they pretend to be. And you know what else? I can choose not to listen to them! I can also choose to find out if what they say is correct or not, and,, AND, get this, I can DISAGREE when they're wrong! (A MAzingly, that does happen. And a lot more often than you may think!)

Now, hold on to your hat, this one is a big one... What they say has no bearing on how the team plays! NONE! Really! It's really neat how that works.

As far as the Men In Black/Lord of the Rings "cryptic code deciphering", I'm actually not sure of your point exact point. But, the those silly NFL people say things like "$100 million dollars", "$41M guaranteed" or "$31M in the first 18 months of the contract" I think they might be sending us a clue, which some people will in turn use during conversations.

Well, for example:

Adam Archuletta, as you so happily pointed out, signed the largest deal a safety ever got. And in a year he was gone and the whole thing cost is a hair over 9 million dollars. That counts the "guaranteed" money and the dead cap hit we took to cut him! Now, if you talk to just some everyday rube, "the largest safety contract in history sounds REALLY impressive.

But as usual, when you talk to someone who knows better than to read into all the glitzy numbers the newspaper prints, it often doesn't work out to be nearly as much money and cap hit as you read about.

And see, what I meant with all that silly talk about cryptic ciphers and voodoo tricks is just this.

We fans don't know DICK about what is in these contracts except what is printed in the paper. And IF all of the contingencies of the contract are met, and IF the team never renegotiates a contract (which any silly ol' football fan knows is definitely gonna happen on these big deals) and lets the player play out to the FULL end of it, then the player MIGHT actually receive all that the paper reported he signed for.

And you know how often that happens?

NEVER.

Neato, huh?

The salary cap total and the number of roster spots are what matter. That's the part I follow. I live the rest to the sorcerers.

Well, then you should know that the salary cap is a malleable number with a million ways for those 'sorcerers' to adjust and manipulate it to fit what they want.

Which is why I STILL say that using contracts and figures is a ridiculous way for fans to discuss the team. Since the numbers never ever bear out to mean what they initially seem to, and since it never stands in the way of the team acquiring players, it's a toothless boogieman.

~Bang

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You just described the Skins under Snyders ownership !Let me ask you this in that time frame how many playoff games did they play ,win ,lose and how many coachs, then match it against ours.........................you won't chuckle ...you'll cry.:mad:

Uh... OK, since 1999 when Danny bought the team the Redskins are 2-3 in 5 playoff games.

The Broncos are 1-4 in playoff games over the same time period.

When is it I should start crying?

The pessimism among this team's fan base is appalling. If people told you guys Dan Snyder invented cancer, I'd bet 80% of this board would believe it.

~Bang

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In our locker room... yes.

Oh yeah, I bet these players just hate the guy who makes them all the "highest paid" so and so in the league.

Bottom line: If our QB is upset that we tried to move him so what, shut up sack up and play. It would be one thing if he was posting 4000 yards and 30 TDs, but since he's not even close to that, his best course of action is to prove that he's worth what has ALREADY been invested in him, cause so far it ain't happening. Shame on anyone wanting a guy that we invested two first round picks in to show he has at least SOME leadership qualities going into his 5th season.

Any other locker room forest fires that I haven't heard about?

~Bang

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As I said in another post I don't always agree with what Snyder has done, but his job is to get his coaches who they ask for, and then it's up to them to make it work.

Fair enough, but when you've had four head coaches in the eight seasons since you've been able to pick that position, and its led to overall mediocrity, maybe Snyder should then realize he hasn't been that great in the coach-picking department either.

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1. We are not Detroit.

2. BLC, how the hell did you manage to try and change this into a JC bashing thread? Kudos, I am impressed.

3. Snyder WAS impulsive when he first owned the team. He fired Norv prematurely (with a winning record) though I think that we can mostly all agree that move had to happen at some point. He brought in a bunch of guys in 2000 who couldn't play, and got rid of a fan favorite in BMitch. Then he fired Marty after 1 year to go after Spurrier.

4. That was then. Spurrier quit. The personnel stuff under Spurrier was a mess, because Spurrier was a half-wit, and Vinny is a half-wit, and the two together didn't make a full wit, somehow. But they tried to get younger guys in general. Spurrier quit. Thank God. He hired Gibbs. Then I TRULY believe he just let Gibbs do whatever he wanted. The successes and failures personnel wise, and there have been both, lie at the feet of Gibbs, not Snyder.

5. Then Gibbs resigned. He took a ton of time to hire Zorn, in a very backwards weird way, but didn't get a big name. The off season last year was very quiet. Let's talk about Jason Taylor. They didn't do that move until they had to find a starting DE. Didn't work out. A whole bunch of people, including people who are relatively skeptical of the 'Skins ownership praised the move, such as BMitch, who never says anything positive about the team. Turned out bad. Cost a 2nd round pick.

6. This year has been different. I think the one thing that Snyder/Cerato figured out is that even though the team was in the playoffs in 2005 and 2007, and 8-8 last year, there were some MAJOR holes that needed filling. They started with DL, can't blame them. Haynsworth's deal is basially a 4 year, 45M deal. Ok, pricey, but they got their guy in a need position. They resigned DHALL. Ok, CB was a need area, at least to get shored up. The O-Line play was suspect: They signed Doc to a reasonable deal. They see that QB play might be improved, they talk about Cutler. What they really need to focus on is upgrading the RT position. They do that, and they will have basically addressed all of the HUGE outstanding needs in the off season: OL, DL, CB. **

I think that Snyder is still paying for sins of the past. Sure, they've done some bizarre things. And he's made some completely bone head moves. And he didn't endear himself to the fans with some of the things he did in the stadium. But he got stuck with that pick of crap just as much as we did.

** I believe that they are still short sighted, and they need to do a lot more on the offensive side of the ball. But that's an opinion. I don't believe that Moss is a #1, that Portis needs a real compliment RB, and that the WR situation is completely dependent on whether or not MK and DT step up.

I also believe that he needs to fire Vinny and hire another GM. If for no other reason than perception that Vinny is just his lackey.

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It's simple, No playoffs and No Zorn. We all know Dan Snyder wants the big name coach and if Jim Zorn gives him a reason and that coach is available; changes are coming.

Bill Cowher, Mike Shanahan, Jon Gruden, Mike Holmgren and Bill Parcells could all be available this offseason. I can't see Dan Snyder not salivating at the chance of this.

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Bill Cowher, Mike Shanahan, Jon Gruden, Mike Holmgren and Bill Parcells could all be available this offseason. I can't see Dan Snyder not salivating at the chance of this.

Cowher is going to NY when Coughlin leaves (that's done),only other that might come here is Gruden...........the others are to smart for Vinnie's crap.

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Gosh, condescension is so much fun isn't it?

~Bang

Dude, all you've put into this thread is a bunch of snarky garbage. You get some back and get all offended and act like I'm stupid because I disagree with you...

You asked why fans should care or why they would talk about it... Because the ones who do, can. You don't have to like it.

You also don't have to like the fact that I, along with more than a few other people, think Dan Snyder is a meddlesome fool. He's a business genius and a football fool.

Everything boils down to him and his poor decision making abilities. A coach fails... who hired him? A player sucks... who added him? He has his hands in on every detail, so when we don't win, who is ultimately to blame?

The Great Danbino, that's who. He's no better than any person who posts on this site. He's just a fan too.

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Dude, all you've put into this thread is a bunch of snarky garbage. You get some back and get all offended and act like I'm stupid because I disagree with you...

You asked why fans should care or why they would talk about it... Because the ones who do, can. You don't have to like it.

You also don't have to like the fact that I, along with more than a few other people, think Dan Snyder is a meddlesome fool. He's a business genius and a football fool.

Everything boils down to him and his poor decision making abilities. A coach fails... who hired him? A player sucks... who added him? He has his hands in on every detail, so when we don't win, who is ultimately to blame?

The Great Danbino, that's who. He's no better than any person who posts on this site. He's just a fan too.

Nah, I didn't get offended because you disagreed with me. I don't much care for it when someone talks down to me like I'm a five year old. Pretty neat how that works, eh? So, if you want to get condescending and pretend your talking to someone who will put up with that kind of crap, you should re-think that position. Being condescending doesn't help you be correct.

Is it snarky of me to show you how Archuleta's contract actually paid out? Is it snarky of me to take issue with this notion that somehow his big contract was the difference between being the 10-6 playoff team we were and the Super Bowl team that was 2 more games away? Was it snarky of me to go back and count the playoff appearances of the Broncos and Redskins since 1999 like someone asked me to do... and then to report that he was INCORRECT in his assumption that I'd be crying when I saw the imbalance on the Broncos side? Was I being snarky when I informed that fan that we've actually won 2 out of 5 playoff games in the span as opposed to 1 by Denver? Was I being snarky when I asked everyone to please show me one time in which one of Snyder's contracts ever precluded us from doing anything we want to acquire a player at another time?

Now, to the matter at hand..

My input in this thread is ONE MAIN POINT.

ONE.

The fact is contracts are a meaningless and ridiculous thing for fans to argue over.

PERIOD.

I haven't defended Snyder and his decisions, never tried to make any excuses for any of his decisions, I have simply illustrated that when it comes to CONTRACTS (remember, my main point of contention in this thread) the fans don't have enough information to make any arguments concerning them. They RARELY if EVER fulfill all the ramifications that are reported. They are malleable, they can be canceled and manipulated and renegotiated at any time. The fact they're actually called "contracts" is laughable, considering the management holds all the cards.

Go ahead, Go back and re-read, ONE MAIN POINT.

If that is a bunch of "snarky garbage" how is it no one has adequately demonstrated the opposite?

So if you'd like to address my ONE MAIN POINT, please try to stay on it. It's not about Snyder. It's about using contracts to illustrate his idiocy.

(I will give you that I have deviated a little to discuss other misnomers that have cropped up during the discussion, but by and large I'm here for one point. Contracts are not a valid argument among fans.)

~Bang

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Cowher is going to NY when Coughlin leaves (that's done)

It IS?

Since when? I was not aware Cowher has ever said anything about where he will go. Do you have some kind of secret news source that lets you know about 'done' deals no one else has ever heard of?

Is this just speculation posing as fact again?

Oops! wait a minute,, my fault. I'm being "snarky" again. How dare I try to get some honest discourse out of fans!

Of COURSE Cowher's going to NY! Of course he is! We have fans that say he is, so that must be the case!

Come on y'all. Seriously. Can we at least TRY to use some facts instead of making them up to suit our anger?

~Bang

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It IS?

Since when? I was not aware Cowher has ever said anything about where he will go. Do you have some kind of secret news source that lets you know about 'done' deals no one else has ever heard of?

Is this just speculation posing as fact again?

Oops! wait a minute,, my fault. I'm being "snarky" again. How dare I try to get some honest discourse out of fans!

Of COURSE Cowher's going to NY! Of course he is! We have fans that say he is, so that must be the case!

Come on y'all. Seriously. Can we at least TRY to use some facts instead of making them up to suit our anger?

~Bang

I've never heard the word "snarky" before but I think I've picked up on it's meaning and yes, saying "Oops! wait a minute,, my fault. I'm being "snarky" again. How dare I try to get some honest discourse out of fans!

Of COURSE Cowher's going to NY! Of course he is! We have fans that say he is, so that must be the case!".... that is being "snarky".

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Cowher is going to NY when Coughlin leaves (that's done),only other that might come here is Gruden...........the others are to smart for Vinnie's crap.

Agreed that Gruden is the most likely candidate for our next head coach. He's a big name that noone else seems to want. He is desperate enough to come here and let Danny run the show.

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I've never heard the word "snarky" before but I think I've picked up on it's meaning and yes, saying "Oops! wait a minute,, my fault. I'm being "snarky" again. How dare I try to get some honest discourse out of fans!

Of COURSE Cowher's going to NY! Of course he is! We have fans that say he is, so that must be the case!".... that is being "snarky".

Yes, I was doing that on purpose. Perhaps earlier you'd seen where that particular poster had asked me to go back and check the Redskins and Broncos playoff records since Dan bought the team, he intimated it would make me cry. He was wrong, the Redskins and Broncos have played the same number of playoff games since 99, and the Redskins have won more.

So when he comes BACK and "snarkily" exclaims that it is a done deal that Cowher IS going to NY.. well yeah, I tend to lose patience.

The guy doesn't do his homework, and spouts things that are easily disproven. So when he proclaims that he KNOWS where Cowher is going, well, I just want to know where that is coming from.

Honest discourse among fans means don't make up stupid **** to make a point you don't have. It means don't assume something to be true when the fact is you don't have a clue, and that particular gentleman has done exactly that at least twice in this thread.

I'm on your side, fans. We can BE smarter than this. That's all I want.

Bash Dan for making questionable moves, fine, Crush Vinny for trading away draft picks and never drafting for need. That's fine, no argument from me. Smash the team for underachieving, fine, But do it with proper facts and honest reasoning. That's all I'm asking.

~Bang

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