Dan T. Posted March 28, 2009 Share Posted March 28, 2009 Why is it so hard to believe that evolution was part of God's plan? Think of God as the Great Manufacturer of Life, and evolution is His version of planned obsolescence. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SoCalSkins Posted March 29, 2009 Share Posted March 29, 2009 So theories are fiction? Virgin births, resurrection from the dead etc are. But child rape, suicide bombings, massive theft and so on are pretty real. You know, the good parts about believing in imaginary friends on a large scale. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
brandymac27 Posted March 29, 2009 Share Posted March 29, 2009 Why is it so hard to believe that evolution was part of God's plan? Think of God as the Great Manufacturer of Life, and evolution is His version of planned obsolescence. I wonder about this all the time. IMO, this is one of the few ways that the two can actually coexist without one "group" bashing the other for irrational beliefs, etc. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AzSkinsFan63 Posted March 29, 2009 Share Posted March 29, 2009 It seems like science and religion are diametrically opposed in this sense... Science is grounded in healthy skepticism, always questioning, and a "prove it" mentality. Religion is grounded in absolute faith:Now faith is the substance of things hoped for, the evidence of things not seen. (Hebrews 11:1) Dr. Duane Gish - Darwinism "is the sustenance of fossils hoped for, the evidence of links unseen." Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
twa Posted March 29, 2009 Share Posted March 29, 2009 I have no problem with separating science and our understanding of how things work vs spiritual matters or faith in a supreme being. Techboy explained it well as to Now faith is the substance of things hoped for, the evidence of things not seen. (Hebrews 11:1) I find God expects us to take very little simply on faith,nor do we posses it in large amounts obviously;) Luke 17:6 And the Lord said, "If you had faith like a mustard seed, you would say to this mulberry tree, 'Be uprooted and be planted in the sea'; and it would obey you. Matthew 17:20 And He said to them, "Because of the littleness of your faith; for truly I say to you, if you have faith the size of a mustard seed, you will say to this mountain, 'Move from here to there,' and it will move; and nothing will be impossible to you. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SoCalSkins Posted March 29, 2009 Share Posted March 29, 2009 I wonder about this all the time. IMO, this is one of the few ways that the two can actually coexist without one "group" bashing the other for irrational beliefs, etc. Religious people hold irrational beliefs period. Every Muslim, Jew and Christian is irrational if they believe and follow the teachings of their cult. There is no argument about it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vicious Posted March 29, 2009 Share Posted March 29, 2009 Hey guys an omnipotent being wrote me a bunch of stories and gave me a bunch of rules to live by. The same omnipotent being wrote a bunch of other different books for different areas too, giving them different rules. Apparently the last one standing is right. Lets get it on! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mjah Posted March 29, 2009 Share Posted March 29, 2009 Maybe I'm missing something, but how do you separate science from theories? fact vs fiction So theories are fiction? Still waiting to see where wyskna1 is going with this, as it seems like a total dead-end. :munchout: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
brandymac27 Posted March 29, 2009 Share Posted March 29, 2009 Religious people hold irrational beliefs period. Every Muslim, Jew and Christian is irrational if they believe and follow the teachings of their cult. There is no argument about it. That really wasn't where I was going with my post. The bottom line, at least my opinion, is that everything in life and in the universe is a theory. There really aren't any facts if you think deeply about things. So basically, we all have our own theories and believe what is best for us individually. Whether that means believing in God over Science , or believing that the two can actually coexist, is based on our own personal theories of how the world actually works. It doesn't mean that one group of people hold irrational beliefs. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vicious Posted March 29, 2009 Share Posted March 29, 2009 The problem with religion is not because people believe in it. It is because they want everyone else to live their lives by their beliefs too. They attempt this by injecting their will into society, so that their values are blanketed over everyone. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
techboy Posted March 29, 2009 Share Posted March 29, 2009 Religious people hold irrational beliefs period. What do you believe is required for a belief to be rational? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Larry Posted March 29, 2009 Author Share Posted March 29, 2009 Well, I guess we made it over a page before the attacks came out of the woodwork. Guess I should consider that better than expected. (There are times when I really, really, really wish that thread starters had Mod powers within their own threads.) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PeterMP Posted March 29, 2009 Share Posted March 29, 2009 Maybe it's because evolution is as much a belief system as any religion but they try to claim otherwise by saying it's fact, when those same facts can be just as disputed as any religion.So the debate is no longer even allowed. Yet it still is debatable. If you are really interested here is a thread that is a good discussion of the difference between science and religion and why evolution is science and creationism and intelligent design aren't. http://www.extremeskins.com/showthread.php?t=280055&highlight=DNA If you really have questions, bump that thread. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Trippster Posted March 29, 2009 Share Posted March 29, 2009 The reason Christians adhere so strongly to a literal creation and a young earth is because it is fundamental to the plan of salvation. If God created using evolution then that means there has been death and imperfection from the very beginning. This contradicts the belief that God created us perfect and that sin has brought about the degeneracy of the race. People who view the Bible as a fairytale have not deeply studied the prophecies of Daniel and Revelation, or the prophecies of the Messiah. It is not like any other book as every fulfilled prophecy has proven. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vicious Posted March 29, 2009 Share Posted March 29, 2009 What do you believe is required for a belief to be rational? No imaginary friends. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
techboy Posted March 29, 2009 Share Posted March 29, 2009 No imaginary friends. I wasn't asking you. If, however, you'd like to provide a serious answer to the question, please feel free. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Larry Posted March 29, 2009 Author Share Posted March 29, 2009 The reason Christians adhere so strongly to a literal creation and a young earth is because it is fundamental to the plan of salvation. If God created using evolution then that means there has been death and imperfection from the very beginning. This contradicts the belief that God created us perfect and that sin has brought about the degeneracy of the race. People who view the Bible as a fairytale have not deeply studied the prophecies of Daniel and Revelation, or the prophecies of the Messiah. It is not like any other book as every fulfilled prophecy has proven. Uh, having trouble where you get the assertion that a young earth is somehow asserted in the Bible. (Although I think I'm following your point about, I assume, evolution being contrary to the Eden "theory".) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Enter Apotheosis Posted March 29, 2009 Share Posted March 29, 2009 (There are times when I really, really, really wish that thread starters had Mod powers within their own threads.) The day that happens is the day I create the "Everybody Loves EA" propaganda thread. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vicious Posted March 29, 2009 Share Posted March 29, 2009 I wasn't asking you. If, however, you'd like to provide a serious answer to the question, please feel free. Pretty sure "No imaginary friends" is fairly rational. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
techboy Posted March 29, 2009 Share Posted March 29, 2009 Uh, having trouble where you get the assertion that a young earth is somehow asserted in the Bible. As already mentioned, some choose to take the geneologies in Genesis and count backwards. The problem with this method is that even if one takes Genesis 1 and 2 as literal history (something that is not at all certain given the poetic language and other features), we still have the Hebrew for "begat" and "day" to deal with. Hebrew tradition frequently skipped "unimportant" generations in its geneologies (probably at least partially because in an oral tradition, it was a pain to memorize as it was), so "begat" can actually refer to a grandfather, great-grandfather, or whatever. Several generations can be skipped. Further, the word for day, "yom", can also mean "period of time", which means that the "6 days" in Genesis could be just about anything. If, however, one assumes that yom means "one day" and the geneology skips nothing, and the Genesis accounts are literal history, then you get something between 6000 and 12000 years for the age of the Earth. It's a valid reading, though thinkers like Augustine argued even way back then that God gave us science and reason, and those and our readings of the Bible should not clash. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AzSkinsFan63 Posted March 29, 2009 Share Posted March 29, 2009 If you are really interested here is a thread that is a good discussion of the difference between science and religion and why evolution is science and creationism and intelligent design aren't.http://www.extremeskins.com/showthread.php?t=280055&highlight=DNA If you really have questions, bump that thread. OK here's a good site if your interested http://www.creationministries.org/index.aspx Especially the videos under NEW-Russ Online-New Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
techboy Posted March 29, 2009 Share Posted March 29, 2009 Pretty sure "No imaginary friends" is fairly rational. Even a theist could agree with you there, but "no imaginary friends" cannot be an actual standard for rationality. If I state that I am a banana, it does not involve any imaginary friends, but it's probably not rational. After all, I do not live in the tropics. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PeterMP Posted March 29, 2009 Share Posted March 29, 2009 OK here's a good site if your interested http://www.creationministries.org/index.aspx Especially the videos under NEW-Russ Online-New I don't have audion on my computer, but I also know the difference between science and evolution and religion and creationism and ID. Seriously, start around page 3 and read from there. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Larry Posted March 29, 2009 Author Share Posted March 29, 2009 Seriously, start around page 3 and read from there. And, please, respond in there. I didn't start this thread because I wanted to re-re-re-re-re-hash a bunch of talking points about whether someone "believes in" evolution or not. My question was why it's important to people. (Fortunately, I guess, at least one person has answered me. For which I am grateful.) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vicious Posted March 29, 2009 Share Posted March 29, 2009 If I state that I am a banana, it does not involve any imaginary friends, but it's probably not rational. Yeah, there are some other crazy things too, like somehow Noah got a breeding pair of each animal into a giant ark. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Archived
This topic is now archived and is closed to further replies.