Spartacus87 Posted March 24, 2009 Share Posted March 24, 2009 Id rather have a WR then a ST stand out. Id trade excellent WR play from Toomer and take a hit on the quality of oneST player, then take a hit in the quality of the WR position (a more important position) and have an above average ST player. Thats what this boils down to. Maybe not Thomas at St, but another depth player. LB, DB, anyone can fill in and play ST. The same cant be said about WR, and the depth we have at WR is trash, not Thrash, trash. SO why not upgrade the WR position and let some other depth player from maybe another position fill out the Special teams roster? "Excellent WR play from Toomer?"You're not going to get that from him anymore. Honestly, how long as he been on the market now? And aren't the Giants facing their own serious question marks in the WR department as well? He's worn down, he's slow, and he doesn't break into his routes quickly anymore. There's nothing he would bring to the table for us anymore that would give us any real benefit. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stew Posted March 24, 2009 Share Posted March 24, 2009 "Excellent WR play from Toomer?"You're not going to get that from him anymore. Honestly, how long as he been on the market now? And aren't the Giants facing their own serious question marks in the WR department as well? He's worn down, he's slow, and he doesn't break into his routes quickly anymore. There's nothing he would bring to the table for us anymore that would give us any real benefit. Sorry, let me correct that adjective, Id hate for minced words to be a sticking point. He will at least be servicable and an upgrade from Thrash, Kelly, and Thomas. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Skinsinparadise Posted March 25, 2009 Share Posted March 25, 2009 Our whole offense didn't show anything last year, anyways. Minus well keep the young guys in so they can get better. Getting Toomer will put is back exactly where we started in 1/2 years. IMO the opposite is true and hence its a great way to make the point here. The running game looked at least good if not very good last season. Heck even our weakest lineman, Jon Jenson, is regarded at least an average run blocker. Santana Moss and Cooley are good receivers but then what? For years now this team has had a good running game and a poor passing one. Some say you are only as good as your weakest link. I'll stay away from the JC debate, I am personally mixed about him. But its hard to argue against the idea that one of the team's weak points for years now is the receiving corp outside of Cooley and Moss. I am no expert but from what I read and see, you play the Skins based on the down, you play against the run mostly, on clear passing downs you double team Santana, when you get closer to the goal line you double team Cooley. Portis is a threat, Santana is a threat, Cooley is a threat. But it looks like you need at least one other. Not saying Toomer is the ticket, but if the guy you are counting on to be the next big receiving threat to take the pressure off of the play makers lets say has a Brandon Lloyd kind of year -- the offense will likely sturggle. Toomer wouldn't set the world on fire, but he seems competent enough to be insurance in case Kelly and Thomas seem poised to have bad seasons. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mnb123 Posted March 25, 2009 Share Posted March 25, 2009 our whole offense didnt show anything? and thats the defense of two crappy ass reach picks at WR? Campbell had a great first half of the season, he didnt have a supporting cast. He had 1 reciever in Moss, one TE and a RB. Campbell didnt throw a pick until the halfway mark of the season, he showed me something. CP almost hit 1500 yards again, that showed me something. To be more specific to your quote, our recievers did absolutely nothing and the over hyped draft picks were a big part of that. Toomer can do nothing but help us see what we have in Thomas and Kelly by challenging them for a roster spot. Ill say it again until someone can pose a reason why not. If Kelly and Thomas cant beat out a 34 year old aging reciever for the #3 or #4 reciever spot, they dont deserve to be a WR, and they dont deserve the roster spot. If we go by your logic then we minus well bring in Jeff Garcia and put him up against Campbell. If a 27 year old QB can't beat out a 40 year old one does he deserve a roster spot? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DieHardSkins88 Posted March 25, 2009 Share Posted March 25, 2009 The Get Real comment comes off like you are a GM, and have the definitive opinion of how things should be done. Unless someone here has been working in the NFL IMO, anybody's opinion is equally valid here.I don't take the point here as get rid of Kelly and Thomas. I took it as what if again those guys don't show anything -- instead of being stuck, we'd have someone else to go to. quote] I agree with you that everyones opinion is equal. However, if you go back and look at some of the comments; you will see that people are calling them busts after one year. So, if you ask me, that means if they were in charge they would already be gone and looking for replacements. I wasn't saying that getting Toomer wouldn't be a solid and feasible move (depending how much money he would want), rather I was implying that you have to give the guys a chance and let them show what you can do. To get back on topic, I do think that getting Toomer would not be a bad idea, because, yes, if the receivers fail to do anything then he would be a good insurance policy. However, having a receiver like Toomer would DEFINATELY limit the chances the younger receivers can get. I would absolutely love this move if it happened in season like the Keenan McCardell move. IMO that was one of the best in season signings we have had in years past, he came away with many clutch receptions and TD's, and Amani Toomer IMO would most likely be the exact same type of signing. But the only way this would be done, is if our receivers don't improve. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Skinsinparadise Posted March 25, 2009 Share Posted March 25, 2009 I agree with you that everyones opinion is equal. However, if you go back and look at some of the comments; you will see that people are calling them busts after one year. So, if you ask me, that means if they were in charge they would already be gone and looking for replacements. OK, cool, I follow that, fair enough yes, if the receivers fail to do anything then he would be a good insurance policy. However, having a receiver like Toomer would DEFINATELY limit the chances the younger receivers can get. I would absolutely love this move if it happened in season like the Keenan McCardell move. IMO that was one of the best in season signings we have had in years past, he came away with many clutch receptions and TD's, and Amani Toomer IMO would most likely be the exact same type of signing. But the only way this would be done, is if our receivers don't improve. OK, I agree with that. I do think that if they sign a veteran receiver it should be to backup these guys as opposed to annoit Toomer as the starter. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wyndorf25 Posted March 25, 2009 Author Share Posted March 25, 2009 The bolded line is something of great importance that seems to be overlooked by many here. Right now our WR corps looks like this:Moss...Thomas...Kelly Randle-El...Thrash...Hagans We are going to go with 5/6 WR's' date=' but only 4/5 will be active on gameday. My guess is we carry 5 and go with 4 active on gameday. That doesn't leave a lot of wiggle room, especially when it comes to ST depth. IMO, Thrash is the ideal 4th WR because of his veteran experience, knowledge of the WCO and ST ability.[/quote'] Lloyd...whenever you post, I catch myself yelling "YES"!!!...and sometimes it even has something to do with what you have to say. :evilg: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
phishisthegreatstuff Posted March 25, 2009 Share Posted March 25, 2009 See my other post.....Come on seriosly no more OLD unefective players please! Harrison's stats from last year 60 receptions for 636 yards and 5 td's...thats better than every WR on our team except for Moss. He can still be a good number 2 for us while DT and MK develop. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kubstix Posted March 25, 2009 Share Posted March 25, 2009 Yeah, I think it was an exaggerated attempt to say that the whole of the Skins' WR core is mediocre. I can understand someone saying we have 3 #2 WRs on the roster (Thomas, Kelly and if you want to throw in a jab--Moss). How would you classify Thomas and Kelly as a #2? Moss is a #2 right now in todays NFL standards. Teams are rocking out the #1 and #2 punches. Most guys Moss sized (welker, jackson, smith, holmes) are playing with a much better set of receivers then we are. We need someone to step up or get a solid #1 next season. So far we have Moss.........and that's about it folks as far as WR's. ARE, solid slot..not #2. I will give benefit of the doubt and hope Thomas steps up his game this season and proves he is a threat. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SirClintonPortis Posted March 25, 2009 Share Posted March 25, 2009 No #81 for him if he signs. But hey, he's not T.O, so he'll probably agree to those terms. Of course, some fool thought T.O would just suck it up. How wrong he was. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lars96789 Posted March 25, 2009 Share Posted March 25, 2009 I don't see what's wrong with signing Amani Toomer to a short-term deal (2 years?) Unless we can expect Thomas/Kelly to develop into decent #2 receivers next year, why not sign Toomer to a 2 year deal? We'll have an established vet opposite to a legit #1 receiver, Moss, and he can probably teach Thomas/Kelly a thing or two about catching balls Also, did you guys know he's 6'3"?? :yikes: I guess standing next to Plaxico makes everybody else shorter Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stew Posted March 25, 2009 Share Posted March 25, 2009 If we go by your logic then we minus well bring in Jeff Garcia and put him up against Campbell. If a 27 year old QB can't beat out a 40 year old one does he deserve a roster spot? Actually, you make my point. IF a 27 year old cannot beat out a 40 year old, then we have questions with that 27 year old. If Garcia was cheap enough, Id def bring him in to see if he can give Campbell a challenge for his position. Thats why all the talk for Cutler. However, here is the difference between the situations. Campbell is at least proficient. he may not be a world beater, but his stats are pretty solid minus the TD passes. Our recievers outside of Moss and maybe... maybe ARE, are a huge question mark. The two young bucks Vinny rolled the dice on last year BOTH turned out to have under productive, under achieving seasons. Im not saying bet the farm on Toomer, but at the very least don'tjust hand the crappy duo their roster spots without making them work for it. If they cant beat out an againg Toomer, then why would you want then starting for us? If they cant unseat Toomer, then we need to look at next years draft for ranother young, capable WR. The Garcia analogy doesn't work for another reason. We have a capable Collins and the potential of Brennan backing up Campbell. We have other alternatives at QB. We have no other options at WR. Moss, ARE, Thrash (who we would replace with Toomer), Little Brittle, and the Invisible Man. Im not saying Toomer is a long term answer. If we sign him, he may not make it out of camp for all we know, but what I do know is that going into the season betting anything on Kelly and Thomas is a bad bad idea. Toomer, Hackett, whoever, just bring someone in to challenge Thomas and Kelly for their jobs. We cant just keep sticking our heads in the sand and saying "Lets just wait and see how they develop". We already invested one year in that, this season they need to show something, or else we are just carrying dead weight on the roster. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wyndorf25 Posted March 25, 2009 Author Share Posted March 25, 2009 ... IF a 27 year old cannot beat out a 40 year old, then we have questions with that 27 year old. If Garcia was cheap enough, Id def bring him in to see if he can give Campbell a challenge for his position. ...However, here is the difference between the situations. Campbell is at least proficient. he may not be a world beater, but his stats are pretty solid minus the TD passes. Our recievers outside of Moss and maybe ARE, are a huge question mark....don't just hand the crappy duo their roster spots without making them work for it. If they cant beat out an againg Toomer...then we need to look at next years draft for ranother young, capable WR.The Garcia analogy doesn't work for another reason. We have a capable Collins and the potential of Brennan backing up Campbell. We have other alternatives at QB. We have no other options at WR.... Toomer, Hackett, whoever, just bring someone in to challenge Thomas and Kelly for their jobs. We cant just keep sticking our heads in the sand and saying "Lets just wait and see how they develop".... Good points. My thoughts exactly... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rk3025 Posted March 25, 2009 Share Posted March 25, 2009 Will he practice overtime with Campbell? I don't see what's wrong with signing Amani Toomer to a short-term deal (2 years?) Unless we can expect Thomas/Kelly to develop into decent #2 receivers next year, why not sign Toomer to a 2 year deal? We'll have an established vet opposite to a legit #1 receiver, Moss, and he can probably teach Thomas/Kelly a thing or two about catching balls Also, did you guys know he's 6'3"?? :yikes: I guess standing next to Plaxico makes everybody else shorter Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tyron Biggums Posted March 26, 2009 Share Posted March 26, 2009 I have watched Toomer kill us many times(no pun). He has great hands, size, and those veteran tricks that get him open on third downs all the time. He reminds me of a poor man's Art Monk. As far as Production. I am sure he can put up 10 times the amount of catches, yards, and TDs that Thomas, and Kelley had last season combined. Plus we don't need him playing catch with Tony Homo down in Dallass. HTTR Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
veteranskinsfan Posted March 26, 2009 Share Posted March 26, 2009 We could use someone like Toomer or Holt etc. A veteran receiver who can go over the middle and get open like Gary Clark did years ago. What will our front office do? Probably wait until after the draft to find a cheap old receiver. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DGreen1 Posted March 26, 2009 Share Posted March 26, 2009 Of course we could use Toomer. While we're at it, let's try to coax Jerry Rice and Art Monk out of retirement and sign them to 4 year deals! Now that's what I'm talking about! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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