Anyone See Any Good News Out There At The Moment?

[bulldog]

Unless we are seeing a very well rehearsed smoke screen to lead us in the opposite direction from where the real action is going to occur, it would seem as if the Redskins offseason is starting out as a very bumpy charter ride in a storm.

Why do I say this?

1. The Redskins should have signed DeAngelo Hall by now to a new deal, but instead the team waited out the market hoping the bad economy would lighten the load they would have to pay and instead found out to their chagrin that yet again senile old Al Davis is willing to play twice what a pro bowl caliber cornerback (Asomugha) is worth in the NFL and that has put the Redskins with their cap situation in real jeopardy of again having to count on Fred Smoot to play man coverage for the team in 2009.

If Hall doesn't resign, then I guess the Redskins have to make nice with Carlos Rogers and explain it was all a misunderstanding, the benching and the digs about his lack of interceptions (forgetting he was playing very solid in coverage for most of the season).

2. From Zorn's comments at the combine it really does appear as if the Redskins strategy is to bring back the geezers (minus Fabini and maybe Marcus Washington), sign a couple of mid-tier free agents and attempt to once again be an 8-8 or 9-7 candidate for the last wildcard and #6 seed in the NFC.

I could hardly believe it when I read that the Redskins want Jason Taylor back in 2009. Why? He doesn't play any recognizable position in a standard 4-3 alignment such as the Redskins use. He is too small at 244 to play DE in the NFC East and are the Redskins going to move him to outside linebacker at 35 to learn a new position in his 13th season?

The idea of using him as a rover on third downs to rush the passer and move around to make plays in space is fine IF Taylor is willing to reduce his salary to say $2.5M from $8M.

That's the going rate for a platoon/specialist these days.

Others on the geezer watch include Pete Kendall, Shawn Springs, Philip Daniels and James Thrash.

Pete was a solid addition in 2007 and then was serviceable in 2008. At the age of 36, I will leave you to determine the trend line here.

Springs? He's a very good athlete still and for those 6-8 games he plays when he is fully healthy, he is an asset for the defense. The problem is at $7.5M on the cap the team really needs a go-to guy that can be plugged in for 16 games and get that same level of performance consistently, week to week.

Daniels and Thrash I include only because we have seen teams like Denver and Houston that also suffered disappointing 2008 seasons finally cut ties with players who were productive in the past but who simply grew too long in the tooth to be part of the future.

That certainly applies to the cases of Daniels and Thrash. Both were hard workers and Gibbs type Redskins from 2004-2007. But Daniels is 36 and had what 3 sacks in 2007? Thrash at 34 caught what, 10-15 balls in 2008? Less?

With all of the developmental problems encountered by Kelly and Thomas in 2008 why didn't Thrash play a bigger role in the offense?

Of all the receivers, spending 5 plus years with Reid in Philly, Thrash has the most experience with the West Coast Offense.

I think the reason he wasn't used more is obvious. He can no longer be effective as a regular player in the NFL. The fact he covers punts and kicks well is great, but at some point you need to populate your wide receiver corps with players who can contribute on offense AND cover punts/kicks. Only in Washington do these skills seem to be mutually exclusive.

3. The lack of draft picks in 2009 may very well mean no impact OT for the club. In the mocks I have seen the best OT may all be off the board when the Redskins pick at #13 and having back the picks that were traded as well as the willingess to put together a package could have allowed the club to move up a few slots and grab one of these players.

But instead we are left with the knowledge that Pete Kendall and Jason Taylor were in essence part of our draft haul in 2009 :laugh:

4. Contract status of Demetric Evans. Here is a player that is a very solid backup and spot starter. He holds down the fort in essence. But he is not a playmaker and has very limited rush skills. But in a year where the Redskins look so vulnerable on the DL, Evans and his agent are now holding out for a guarantee of a starting job in DC, complete with enhanced salary package.

The Redskins could have resigned Evans last summer for chump change for 2-3 years and had him on board as the backup and spot starter he has been for much of his career. Now, the team is either going to have to let him go or end up paying him a lot more money than would have been necessary in 2008 (even assuming for a moment that his agent's stance on starting in 2009 is just negotiating 'blow').

Again, an opportunity lost to do something at reasonable value. But then again, the Redskins don't like to shop for and acquire bargains. They like shopping during the high season when the prices are at their peak.

You can just clip and paste my comments about Evans to the situations with Montgomery and Golston. These guys are going to try and drive harder bargains with the Redskins because they can see the team doesn't have anyone on the roster to challenge them for a spot, and has limited resources to sign top tier replacements.

I read one blogpost today where a Titans' fan said he was disgusted with Haynesworth and said he hoped the 'Redskins or whomever will be happy paying Albert what he thinks he's worth'.

If only these fans knew. The Redskins don't have the money to pursue a Haynesworth in free agency, and they don't have the picks to draft many either.

[Soup]

Yeah, I agree with everything you said and I'm also very worried about next year. With another year added to all those old players, I'm not sure if the redskins can get to 8-8.

[bulldog]

Well, I don't think you will see the Redskins beat Dallas in Dallas and Philly in Philly again in 2009. Despite the final 8-8 record, the Redskins had some early favorable bounces of the ball so to speak that propped up the season to some degree.

I don't think the Redskins are a club that could go 6-2 again with the same personnel.

[Loyal2Washington]

The future is not very bright IMO. When DC's around the league figured Zorn's WCO out he was simply out coached and showed no signs of being able to adjust his offense or red zone offense, which was a problem all year. Also the players showed no signs of big play ability and regression of performance within the offense, rather then progression, whether it was player or coach is debatable. If you look at the second half of the season it's hard to believe this team can even approach 8-8.

Our D is another year older and with possibly losing Rogers and Hall, and with no additions to an offense that was down right putride the second half of the year, I am preparing myself for a mid 90's Norv turner type season.

[bulldog]

Well, it isn't just having a football person running the franchise but the RIGHT football person. As you noted the 1990's Redskins had a strong GM in Casserly that the owner JKC and John Cooke let run the football operations and the draft and the team still posted some horrible seasons and forgettable drafts. Not to mention free agent moves for the likes of Dana Stubblefield and James Washington.

Realistically, the Redskins are going to take a step back in 2009 due to the issues on the roster and the team should take advantage of that to begin a rebuild.

My fear is that the 8-8 season just concluded was close enough to a playoff berth that Snyder and Cerrato will continue to flutter around and try to find that 'missing piece' that keeps eluding them instead of facing reality.

[Thinking Skins]

you're overreacting bulldog.....

its along offseason, we're gonna trade Taylor, and we're gonna play it safe with Hall (and maybe bring in someone to replace him if he leaves).

I'm happy we haven't rushed to any horrendous signings yet. I hope we continue to do that. Look at what Philly does, and what Pitt does, and what NE does, and some of the more successful teams. How often do you see them overpay for talent?

For once, we're being fisically responsible.

I'm convinced we're going to trade Taylor, or at least trying to.

[bulldog]

NE and Pitt resign their players before they get to FA. Or if they do get to FA, these teams are prepared because they have used the draft to groom replacements.

You give the Redskins too much credit because we have seen the team make any number of mistakes in misreading the market - not signing players the summer before they become or approach FA. Just look at Derrick Dockery or Antonio Pierce.

And as far as the draft goes, the whole issue here is that there is no depth because there have been very few picks and those picks that have been added have rarely made a big impact.

I would love to think that the Redskins are 'playing it cool' and measuring the moment to strike like Pioli was doing the last 5-6 years in New England, but my fear is that Snyder and Cerrato are just sitting there clueless waiting to see what is going to happen.

[herb mul-key]

Taylor, Washington and Springs will have Monster seasons upcoming...Monster and the Overhill the Gang returns!!!!

we need to keep los and dhall and smoot and springs. Landry and Horton London, Rocky and Fincher, Monty, Golston, Carter, Evans Daniels, Alexander and Griff if these boys are training hard and are serious...I like our D! We need a LB and one DL stud to really step up!

[Going Commando]

I'm convinced we're going to trade Taylor, or at least trying to.

Yeah I can see that. But what could we realistically get for him? I wouldn't hold out hope for more than a 6 rounder if anything. Maybe we could package him with our third round pick to get back a second round one.

[Going Commando]

NE and Pitt resign their players before they get to FA. Or if they do get to FA, these teams are prepared because they have used the draft to groom replacements.

The Steelers almost never resign their players before their contracts are up. Roethlisberger and Harrison are exceptions--Big Ben because he is a championship caliber QB whom you never let get away, and Harrison because his production far exceeded what his original contract was paying for. They wait to resign their players.

[thinker]

I'm afraid that you're spot on bulldog. I haven't been around for awhile - just kind of disgusted with the FO. Art used to say "cash trumps cap." Not any more. Players that we'd love to have - Haynesworth, Gross, Dansby, Hall, Boldin are just way out of our price range. Everybody has the money to outspend us. Everybody has so much money that they can franchise no-name tight ends and punters. Did you see Al Davis gave his punter a 4 year $16 million deal. How long has it been since we've had a real good punter? Or a punt returner or an explosive kickoff returner? Our current roster of starters is old and overpaid and lacking quality younger guys who can step in to replace them. If you look at our entire offensive and defensive lines, how many players would START for any of the 12 playoff teams (barring them having a current starter getting injured)? Samuels would be an upgrade for several teams. Somebody might take a flyer on Montgomery. Pretty much anybody else - the other teams' message boards would be saying "vet minimum with incentives." It's a sorry state and absent an ucapped year and the Skins going crazy - I don't see it turning around next year or any time soon.

[turbodiesel#44]

The only good thing I can come up with is that Zorn will (I think) be involved in the draft selections this year to a much greater degree. IDK how Zorn will do, but a random number generator could beat Vinny.

[TheLongshot]

You know what is going on with Hall? It is called negotiation. That is a good thing. If a deal was done now, no doubt it would be because they overpaid for him.

As for Taylor, who wouldn't want a guy who has been one of the best pass rushers in the league who had a run of bad luck last year? Granted, at that cap number, it probably doesn't make THAT much sense, but the guy is a quality individual who goes out there and gives it his all. Thinking Skins' theory that he's trade bait is interesting, but I don't know if enough teams would buy that we'd keep him at that cap number. I think a lot depends on who they are able to find on the open market and if they can keep Evans.

Evans is an interesting case. He's always been a solid guy, but he's never proven to anyone here that he can be a regular starter. Now on the verge of his last payday, he knows he has to make it count. That's why I find it laughable that people use the argument that "we could have resigned him cheaper". First, there was no need to reup him early and second, I doubt he would have resigned for a pittance.

Yeah, it is possible that he can get overpaid in the FA market, particularly since he's a DE. But, he's also the type of guy you usually let go if he wants too much money. While I'd like to see him back, I'd rather see him go than spend too much in a guy who has never shown that he's more than solid.

There really hasn't been much news, either good or bad, so there isn't really much to get worked up about as of yet.

[moondog]

NE and Pitt resign their players before they get to FA. Or if they do get to FA, these teams are prepared because they have used the draft to groom replacements.

You give the Redskins too much credit because we have seen the team make any number of mistakes in misreading the market - not signing players the summer before they become or approach FA. Just look at Derrick Dockery or Antonio Pierce.

And as far as the draft goes, the whole issue here is that there is no depth because there have been very few picks and those picks that have been added have rarely made a big impact.

I would love to think that the Redskins are 'playing it cool' and measuring the moment to strike like Pioli was doing the last 5-6 years in New England, but my fear is that Snyder and Cerrato are just sitting there clueless waiting to see what is going to happen.

No, take a look at who leads the league in compensatory picks over the last several years and the Patriots and Steelers will be right up at or near the top. The Patriots rarely resign players that are or are going to be UFA's. If you disagree, look at a guy like Asante Samuels. Pittsburgh has some very good linebackers, but they've also let several of their good ones walk. The bigger difference is that they have simply been better at identifying and picking up cheaper younger FA's that fill in well and drafting players to replace them. Rarely do late mid rounders and late rounders make teams over the long term. It is an exception like the Giant's Super Bowl year and ours last year when they almost all make the team and contribute. With the exception of Durant Brooks, we drafted 9 guys last year that are all contributors (or likely will be) and yet people are still upset.

Pierce's asking price was a bit too high (although I would have been happier if we'd resigned him too) and Dockery became one of the highest paid lineman. While we probably could have resigned both if the FO hadn't tied up so much dead cap space earlier this decade, it is what it is and they're finally doing this right. Due to the contract he'll get and his pro-bowl past we'd likely get a 3rd round compensatory pick for Hall if he left. I'd rather have him, but not at an overly ballooned price. Of the three, Dockery was probably the hardest hit. But we really need to get Hall back and start him and Rogers.

[moondog]

you're overreacting bulldog.....

its along offseason, we're gonna trade Taylor, and we're gonna play it safe with Hall (and maybe bring in someone to replace him if he leaves).

I'm happy we haven't rushed to any horrendous signings yet. I hope we continue to do that. Look at what Philly does, and what Pitt does, and what NE does, and some of the more successful teams. How often do you see them overpay for talent?

For once, we're being fisically responsible.

I'm convinced we're going to trade Taylor, or at least trying to.

I'm happy we haven't rushed to sign Hall to a monster contract either, we can't and shouldn't because that will only drive Roger's asking price up and neither deserves the money Mnamdi Asomagha got.

I don't think any team would trade for Taylor. He's old, he was unproductive last year, and his salary is way too high. And, we'd only get a late round pick that will likely end up as nothing - the likelihood of another Horton is extremely low at best. I'd rather keep him if we can renegotiate his deal. Hell, they may keep him anyway and although I hate to see all that cap space used on him, I actually wouldn't be too upset because I think last year was an aberration/freak injury and he'll be a lot better healthy next year even in a system that doesn't necessarily fit him. I don't see us being able to find a trade that helps us though.

[SoCalSkins]

The only good thing I can come up with is that Zorn will (I think) be involved in the draft selections this year to a much greater degree. IDK how Zorn will do, but a random number generator could beat Vinny.

What do you base this on? Zorn's job was in question until week 15, now he is a quasi GM? I call BS. Vinny and Dan will make all of the calls and Zorn will continue his role as a yes man.

[bubba9497]

No matter what happens

the team will be better than how they're described on ES

[bubba9497]

For once, we're being fisically responsible.

damned if you do, damned if you don't

[ABSTRACT]

Ya'll have to look at the details. In this "horrid second half of the season", we were outscored 14-0 in the first quarter in most of our games. These scores were due to our offensive line.

Remember when one of our O-Lineman tried to carry the ball and it got popped out of their hand for a TD return.

Remember when our line got beat against the ravens and someone got a hand on Jason while he was throwing and it ended in an Ed Reed Interception.

Our O-line is the only issue. Once we get that done, we will be fine. As long as we keep D. Hall and Rogers...

[FUBAR]

I wouldn't say that I see any good news yet, but I think the potential is there. There definitely isn't any bad news, in my opinion.

1. When it comes to Hall, I agree with TheLongshot that we should let that situation play itself out. I hope to get him back as well, but there is plenty of time to let Hall realize that he won't get that Oakland CB's (sorry no idea of how to spell that nonsense) kind of money. But if he'd rather play somewhere else for a comparable contract, so be it. I'm thinking we will wind up with one or the other at the worst, at that really wouldn't be the end of the world.

2. I hear what you're saying about the amount of money the older guys are getting, but I'm holding out hope that the Skins can pull some restucturing magic (Taylor), and I feel fine about some of them leaving (Daniels, Springs) if need be.

3. All I have to say about this is that I have a gut feeling that one will drop to us, leave it at that. The mocks don't mean much right now.

4. Once again, agree with TheLongshot. He hit the nail on the head with Evans. Dude can walk, he is replaceable and IMO not worth a bunch of money.

Maybe I'm just an optimist, but damn at least let the offseason get rolling before getting all depressed about the Skins. This is the time for hope man!

[PROSCOUT]

A whole lot of doom and gloom on this thread and indeed the Skins COULD possibly fall apart and finish 5-11 or 6-10. However there is always a bright spot.

We have all of our draft picks for next season and we may be drafting in the top 9 or 10. Very good spot to get a Pro Bowl defensive player, which we still don't have.

[Est.1974]

I think the last couple of days have been a reality check in terms of what a difficult situation the team / roster is in.

Look at all the guys tagged, re-signed. Several have been discussed on here, when in reality we were never going to a) get a real chance to sign them or we were never going to be able to afford to sign them.

The difficulty we have is that, getting very good FA's in is not that easy, especially when you have marginal cap space like the 'skins. Also, it is very easy for us to create cap space by cutting a few players ( the usual suspects ) , but in reality who is going to replace them, mid-tier FA's that several other teams will also want ? We may get younger but we may not get better, or at least not in the short term.

The alternative is cut the dead wood & invest heavily in the draft, but at the moment we can't do that with 4 picks.

The danger is that we end in 'no-mans land'. We retain the high paid vets, we don't really get the adequate long term replacements in & thus we end up in the same position next year.

I think it may be difficult to rebuild without taking a step or two back, results wise, but time will tell.

We are in a difficult position, IMO, in terms of shaping our roster for 2009 to remain competative this year, whilst also building for the long-term at the same time.

[S.T.real,lights,out]

you're overreacting bulldog.....

I'm happy we haven't rushed to any horrendous signings yet. I hope we continue to do that. Look at what Philly does, and what Pitt does, and what NE does, and some of the more successful teams. How often do you see them overpay for talent?

Yeah but all those teams have mult. draft picks. They dont need to go crazy in FA. I mean Damn Philly has two 1st round picks!!! WTF!

[fansince62]

No, take a look at who leads the league in compensatory picks over the last several years and the Patriots and Steelers will be right up at or near the top. The Patriots rarely resign players that are or are going to be UFA's. If you disagree, look at a guy like Asante Samuels. Pittsburgh has some very good linebackers, but they've also let several of their good ones walk. The bigger difference is that they have simply been better at identifying and picking up cheaper younger FA's that fill in well and drafting players to replace them. Rarely do late mid rounders and late rounders make teams over the long term. It is an exception like the Giant's Super Bowl year and ours last year when they almost all make the team and contribute. With the exception of Durant Brooks, we drafted 9 guys last year that are all contributors (or likely will be) and yet people are still upset.

Pierce's asking price was a bit too high (although I would have been happier if we'd resigned him too) and Dockery became one of the highest paid lineman. While we probably could have resigned both if the FO hadn't tied up so much dead cap space earlier this decade, it is what it is and they're finally doing this right. Due to the contract he'll get and his pro-bowl past we'd likely get a 3rd round compensatory pick for Hall if he left. I'd rather have him, but not at an overly ballooned price. Of the three, Dockery was probably the hardest hit. But we really need to get Hall back and start him and Rogers.

sorry....but what planet are you on?...a statement that nearly all draftees from last season are contrbutors simply doesn't square with reality. while I am happy that we drafted at all last year...I believe one of bulldog's implied points is that the team has limited options precisely because it has no real gameplan. it keeps boxing itself in with unproductive FA signings, traded draft picks and marginal cap space. the team doesn't sustain a tool of financial weapons - let alone consistently dig up quality talent - that serves as a foundation. their whole plan..such as it is...is to shoot for a one year strike rather than a sustained powerhouse.

Snyder and Cerratto simply don't have the touch, expertise, luck....whatever it is....to build a winning franchise. there's no "there there"......

[fansince62]

A whole lot of doom and gloom on this thread and indeed the Skins COULD possibly fall apart and finish 5-11 or 6-10. However there is always a bright spot.

We have all of our draft picks for next season and we may be drafting in the top 9 or 10. Very good spot to get a Pro Bowl defensive player, which we still don't have.

so we can skip watching the games this upcoming season and enjoy the coaching search next off-season?