Shilsu Posted February 17, 2009 Share Posted February 17, 2009 LT Chris Samuels - 3.0. Tied for 6th out of all LT's. LG Pete Kendall - 3.0. Tied for 17th out of all LG's. C Casey Rabach - 5.5. Tied for 31st out of all C's. RG Randy Thomas - 4.0. Tied for 19th out of all RG's. RT Jon Jansen - 6.5. Tied for 22nd out of all RT's. Note that Chris Samuels only started 12 games and Jon Jansen only started 11. That means Samuels projects to 4 sacks and Jon Jansen projects to 9 sacks (rounding down since he did play in a game he did not start). Source: http://boards.bengals.com/showthread.php?t=39733 I don't know how accurate it is. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
skinpride1 Posted February 17, 2009 Share Posted February 17, 2009 Well it's no secret that you have Chris Samuels and then a really bad average or below average line. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thinking Skins Posted February 17, 2009 Share Posted February 17, 2009 I think it goes to the point of us being mediocre. One problem though - we had 38 sacks this year, but this only accounts for 22 of them. I wonder how they compiled these things. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thinking Skins Posted February 17, 2009 Share Posted February 17, 2009 How bad are these guys: LG 29. Steve Hutchinson (Vikings) 7.0 sacks allowed (16 starts) *PRO-BOWL* 29. Alan Faneca (Jets) 7.0 sacks allowed (16 starts) *PRO-BOWL* RG 24. Leonard Davis (Cowboys) 4.5 sacks allowed (16 starts) *PRO-BOWL* I don't think this is an accurate metric for measuring an offensive lineman. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
terpskins10 Posted February 17, 2009 Share Posted February 17, 2009 I think it goes to the point of us being mediocre. One problem though - we had 38 sacks this year, but this only accounts for 22 of them. I wonder how they compiled these things. It's because sometimes sacks aren't attributed to certain linemen, and can either be on the QB, the backs, or the tight end. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Always A Commander Never A Captain Posted February 17, 2009 Share Posted February 17, 2009 The Steelers center was the only one worse than Rabach this season. In contrast, I know the Bears perennial pro-bowl C, Olin Kreutz, allowed zero sacks. Rabach is a HUGE weak link, and there is no pocket for Campbell to step into when Rabach gets pushed around. You have to think that some of the other players sacks allowed were due to them expecting Rabach to hold his ground, so they were moving the defender away from the pocket expecting Campbell to be safely in there. When it turns out Campbell had to evade and ran into a defender that was otherwise, being blocked fine. Solutions: In the draft, Alex Mack, Max Unger, Eric Wood, and Antoine Canfield (sp?) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Always A Commander Never A Captain Posted February 17, 2009 Share Posted February 17, 2009 How bad are these guys: 29. Alan Faneca (Jets) 7.0 sacks allowed (16 starts) *PRO-BOWL* I don't think this is an accurate metric for measuring an offensive lineman. I think Faneca kinda got in based on his name. He can still do good in the running game, but the Steelers thought his play was declining and didn't want to overpay to keep him. There was a noticeable drop off in the run-game for the Steelers this season since Faneca left, but the poor pass-pro is similar to last season when Faneca was still there. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HitStickTaylor21 Posted February 17, 2009 Share Posted February 17, 2009 I think it goes to the point of us being mediocre. One problem though - we had 38 sacks this year, but this only accounts for 22 of them. I wonder how they compiled these things. How many were attributed to Heyer? Didn't Geisinger allow one or two sacks in the Ravens game when Samuels went down? There are definitely other players to attribute the remaining sacks to. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pyro281 Posted February 17, 2009 Share Posted February 17, 2009 LT Chris Samuels - 3.0. Tied for 6th out of all LT's. -About what I'd expect. This is actually more impressive since he played hurt the last 1/4-1/3 of the season injured. LG Pete Kendall - 3.0. Tied for 17th out of all LG's. -Wondering how much of this is age, his arthritic knees, or a combination? C Casey Rabach - 5.5. Tied for 31st out of all C's. -Ouch, that's pretty rough. So he's undersized and allowed almost the most sacks of any center. RG Randy Thomas - 4.0. Tied for 19th out of all RG's. -Randy Thomas has always been a better run blocker than pass blocker, but having your interoir line allow 12.5 sacks seems like a bad statistic. RT Jon Jansen - 6.5. Tied for 22nd out of all RT's. -Rounding that up to about 9, as you said adjusting for him not starting a few games, that's pretty bad and would rank him even lower. Not seeing how letting Heyer play could be much worse at this point. Time for some serious upgrades, but then again a lot on ES having been saying it for a few years (and some of us not on ES at that time have had similar thoughts). Here's hoping for a lightbulb to go off in the front office. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thinking Skins Posted February 17, 2009 Share Posted February 17, 2009 How many were attributed to Heyer? Didn't Geisinger allow one or two sacks in the Ravens game when Samuels went down? There are definitely other players to attribute the remaining sacks to. Yeah, but you're saying 16 sacks to two players? One who played a half? THe other who's considered strong in pass protection? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
terpskins10 Posted February 17, 2009 Share Posted February 17, 2009 Yeah, but you're saying 16 sacks to two players? One who played a half? THe other who's considered strong in pass protection? Those 16 sacks could be attributed to Geisinger, Heyer, Cooley, Sellers, Portis, L. Alexander, Yoder, Davis, and even Campbell. We'd have to go through the film to really figure it out, but it's definitely possible to spread those 16 sacks among the other players on the roster. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HitStickTaylor21 Posted February 17, 2009 Share Posted February 17, 2009 Yeah, but you're saying 16 sacks to two players? One who played a half? THe other who's considered strong in pass protection? No, I'm just throwing out examples, there were a lot of other players who could be at fault. Besides, if there is a sack, does it have to be attributed to someone? If Campbell is holding the ball for 10 seconds and scrambles out of the pocket and won't let it go, does that have to be someone else's fault? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
darrelgreenie Posted February 17, 2009 Share Posted February 17, 2009 The Steelers center was the only one worse than Rabach this season. In contrast, I know the Bears perennial pro-bowl C, Olin Kreutz, allowed zero sacks. Rabach is a HUGE weak link, and there is no pocket for Campbell to step into when Rabach gets pushed around.You have to think that some of the other players sacks allowed were due to them expecting Rabach to hold his ground, so they were moving the defender away from the pocket expecting Campbell to be safely in there. When it turns out Campbell had to evade and ran into a defender that was otherwise, being blocked fine. Solutions: In the draft, Alex Mack, Max Unger, Eric Wood, and Antoine Canfield (sp?) Agree:applause: My hope for next years line: Starting at Center for your Washington Redskins Alex Mack! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thinking Skins Posted February 17, 2009 Share Posted February 17, 2009 This is something that makes me doubt these stats somewhat: http://voices.washingtonpost.com/redskinsinsider/2009/01/l2008_positional_review_-_inte.html#more Rabach is still the linchpin, although for the first time there were a few cracks in his game. He committed more penalties and had some significant problems with big 3-4 nose tackles (most people do, especially those who are more athletic than bulky, as Casey is). He was getting little help from his teammates at times and being asked to do a lot. He plays through pretty much all pain and has been vital to Jason Campbell's growth reading defenses and making checks and adjustments. He is the glue to the line and should have two or three more strong seasons. This is coming from JLC, the eternal Redskins hater. Maybe he's using reverse psychology to make us think that a bad player is actually good, but its a comment I've heard many times about Rabach. In fact, I've heard it since we first signed the guy.....or maybe Rabach is a JLC "source"... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
darrelgreenie Posted February 17, 2009 Share Posted February 17, 2009 This is something that makes me doubt these stats somewhat: http://voices.washingtonpost.com/redskinsinsider/2009/01/l2008_positional_review_-_inte.html#more This is coming from JLC, the eternal Redskins hater. Maybe he's using reverse psychology to make us think that a bad player is actually good, but its a comment I've heard many times about Rabach. In fact, I've heard it since we first signed the guy.....or maybe Rabach is a JLC "source"... I don't know what to think about the guy. I remember Rabach getting mushed and pushed back when he was asked to play 1-1 with a NT/DT. But, i've also heard Buges praise the guy. But, then again Buges always praises his veteran guys. Then there's the stats:C Casey Rabach - 5.5. Tied for 31st out of all C's Then of all people JLC is praising him:doh: Then i just see flashes of Rabach getting beat. Then the stats support what i saw I don't know if i should but its hard not to believe my (maybe?) lying eyes? But then there's the stats Its a circle Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RabidFan Posted February 17, 2009 Share Posted February 17, 2009 Betts had a couple too Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GSF Posted February 17, 2009 Share Posted February 17, 2009 These are those kinds of stats that don't tell the whole story. How many times did Campbell just barely throw it away or dump it off in time before getting nailed? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Always A Commander Never A Captain Posted February 17, 2009 Share Posted February 17, 2009 This is something that makes me doubt these stats somewhat: http://voices.washingtonpost.com/redskinsinsider/2009/01/l2008_positional_review_-_inte.html#more Rabach is still the linchpin, although for the first time there were a few cracks in his game. He committed more penalties and had some significant problems with big 3-4 nose tackles (most people do, especially those who are more athletic than bulky, as Casey is). He was getting little help from his teammates at times and being asked to do a lot. He plays through pretty much all pain and has been vital to Jason Campbell's growth reading defenses and making checks and adjustments. He is the glue to the line and should have two or three more strong seasons. This is coming from JLC, the eternal Redskins hater. Maybe he's using reverse psychology to make us think that a bad player is actually good, but its a comment I've heard many times about Rabach. In fact, I've heard it since we first signed the guy.....or maybe Rabach is a JLC "source"... JLC needs to do more research. Originally I thought so too, but this was Rabach's best year as a Redskin in terms of number of penalties, they were baaaaad penalties though. Rabach in: '08, 3 penalties '07, 5 penalties '06, 5 penalties '05, 9 penalties Rabach USED to be the linchpin. This was his worst season in sacks allowed by far. He gave up 3.75 sacks in his first 3 years (combined) as a Redskin, and 5.5 this year. He'll be 32 about when the season starts. He's not fine wine, and he's not going to get better with age. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
terpskins10 Posted February 17, 2009 Share Posted February 17, 2009 These are those kinds of stats that don't tell the whole story. How many times did Campbell just barely throw it away or dump it off in time before getting nailed? Never. Campbell sucks too bad and is too stupid to know how to throw the ball away when his OL fails him. Every sack is actually his fault. /sarcasm Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Laron Burgundy Posted February 17, 2009 Share Posted February 17, 2009 And to be fair to our guys we faced a hellacious schedule of defenses. We faced the Cowboys, Giants, and Eagles twice each, and also had the steelers and ravens. I mean, 3 of the top 6 defenses in sacks were from our division. That'll make your o-line look bad compared to the rest of the league. Then again, it ain't like we're changing divisions so we need guys who can play in the nfc east. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bubba9497 Posted February 17, 2009 Share Posted February 17, 2009 This is something that makes me doubt these stats somewhat: http://voices.washingtonpost.com/redskinsinsider/2009/01/l2008_positional_review_-_inte.html#more This is coming from JLC, the eternal Redskins hater. Maybe he's using reverse psychology to make us think that a bad player is actually good, but its a comment I've heard many times about Rabach. In fact, I've heard it since we first signed the guy.....or maybe Rabach is a JLC "source"... Rabach is a very underrated center, however he had more problems this past season than since becoming a Redskin... some of it has probably been others failures cross the line as well. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
titus3 Posted February 17, 2009 Share Posted February 17, 2009 The o-line allowed 15 sacks in games 2 through 8 in the first half of the season and the team went 6-1. They also allowed 15 sacks in games 10 through 16 in the second half of the season. Yet the team struggled and went 2-5. I'm not sure if pass protection was the main reason why the team faded toward the end of the season.:2cents: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wilco_holland Posted February 17, 2009 Share Posted February 17, 2009 ... Rabach is a HUGE weak link, and there is no pocket for Campbell to step into when Rabach gets pushed around.Solutions: In the draft, Alex Mack, Max Unger, Eric Wood, and Antoine Canfield (sp?) This years draft has realy a lot of good centers......we should be abailble to draft one whit the 3th round pick. I prefer Caldwell from Alabama. And a detail no one cares........Caldwell looks like Chris Samuels in run blocking, the way he runblocks and the way he looks (but thats because his build and alabama costume). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HighOnHendrix Posted February 17, 2009 Share Posted February 17, 2009 The o-line allowed 15 sacks in games 2 through 8 in the first half of the season and the team went 6-1.They also allowed 15 sacks in games 10 through 16 in the second half of the season. Yet the team struggled and went 2-5. I'm not sure if pass protection was the main reason why the team faded toward the end of the season.:2cents: It was a big part of it. Sacks are not the only consideration in protection. I'm sure someone more statistically-inclined than myself could find the relevant stats, say QB pressures, hits, etc. I remember an awful lot of our OLs on their asses at the ends of plays in the second half of the season. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BillyKilmer Posted February 17, 2009 Share Posted February 17, 2009 How bad are these guys: LG 29. Steve Hutchinson (Vikings) 7.0 sacks allowed (16 starts) *PRO-BOWL* 29. Alan Faneca (Jets) 7.0 sacks allowed (16 starts) *PRO-BOWL* RG 24. Leonard Davis (Cowboys) 4.5 sacks allowed (16 starts) *PRO-BOWL* I don't think this is an accurate metric for measuring an offensive lineman. Not to mention the Skins were learning a new offense Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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