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California billionaire wants vikings in los angeles

DWinzit

By DWinzit
in Around the NFL

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DWinzit

DWinzit

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I think the only way the Bills stay in Buffalo is with the support of Toronto. If the Bills still can't make it work with Toronto paying for games than they'll move to another city in the states.
I agree with that. The Toronto deal should be viewed as a last ditch effort to save a move. I hope it works, Buffalo loves their Bills and they are the only true NY team.
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OWUeagleMD

OWUeagleMD

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Good stuff Rdskns2000. Every time I hear someone mention that the Ravens were stolen from Cleveland, I try to remind that person that the fault is solely attributable to Tagliabue.

And of course, Tagliabue reinforced his mistake by telling Baltimore fans to "just build a museum or something."

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RFKFedEx

RFKFedEx

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Every time I hear someone mention that the Ravens were stolen from Cleveland, I try to remind that person that the fault is solely attributable to Tagliabue.

I really wish Tags had expanded to Bmore b/f Jax also, but how can you blame him for Modell's desire to leave Cleveland? Baltimore offered Modell a new stadium for free, just as Indi had done for the Irsays a decade earlier. It was a simple business decision for which the commish had no power to stop.

People who claim that franchises are "stolen" are just plain ignorant. Owners are always going to go where the money is the greenest and fan loyalty and franchise history have little influence in the end.

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RFKFedEx

RFKFedEx

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Remember, as part of the agreement with Cleveland; Art Modell was allowed to leave and Cleveland was promised an expansion team.

Not really. There was neither an agreement nor promises b/t the NFL and Clevelend for a future franchise in 1995. There was also nothing the league could do to stop Modell from moving, so it's not like they allowed him to do anything. The NFL vote to expand to Cleveland came in 1996, nearly a year after Modell left town.

You want to know one of the reasons why TAGS isn't in the HOF, it's this mess of the mid 90's. If he used some leadership; maybe some of the relocation wouldn't have happened. What the nfl does now to help facilitate new stadiums by loaning some money was done in the mid 90's.

I don't think relocation is a big reason for keeping Tags out of the HOF. Tag's is not yet in b/c he's a non sexy name, unlike like players and coaches. Give him time.

As far as leadership is concerned, I'd say Tags did a pretty good job of milking cities for public financing for all of these new stadiums. Relocation and the threat of, has fleeced billions of dollars from tax payers. The billions in tax dollars have gone directly into the pockets of NFL owners. Franchise values sky rocketed under Tags leadership.

Remember, the NFL is a business.

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88Comrade2000

88Comrade2000

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Rdskns2000, that was a great history refresher. I had forgotten about some of the inter workings of the expansion's. Also forgot just how bad Tags did drop the ball. I won't be wondering any more why he isn't in the HOF, my bad.:doh:

I can't picture Al Davis letting the Raiders move form the coast.

I must admit with a name like the Memphis Hound Dogs, I'm kinda glad they weren't awarded a contract. :silly:

Hey, Al flirted with Texas for while.

The mistakes Tags made back then screw things up that we are still dealing with now. I actually like the setup we have as far as divisions; though getting there isn't what I expected.

Everyone knows LA is all about TV and if the NFL wants more money in the next TV contact; LA will have a team.

I would've loved the Hound Dogs- Elvis music at all their games.

I ought to go back and find some articles on that. I followed expansion very closely. I even tried to follow the Panthers for a while as my second team; thinking it would be cool to follow a team from its birth. Alas, I found out you really can't follow 2 teams.

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88Comrade2000

88Comrade2000

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Not really. There was neither an agreement nor promises b/t the NFL and Clevelend for a future franchise in 1995. There was also nothing the league could do to stop Modell from moving, so it's not like they allowed him to do anything. The NFL vote to expand to Cleveland came in 1996, nearly a year after Modell left town.

I don't think relocation is a big reason for keeping Tags out of the HOF. Tag's is not yet in b/c he's a non sexy name, unlike like players and coaches. Give him time.

As far as leadership is concerned, I'd say Tags did a pretty good job of milking cities for public financing for all of these new stadiums. Relocation and the threat of, has fleeced billions of dollars from tax payers. The billions in tax dollars have gone directly into the pockets of NFL owners. Franchise values sky rocketed under Tags leadership.

Remember, the NFL is a business.

Of course it's business but remember its sports writers who vote people into the hall and I can gaurantee to you they are holding that against Tags.

As for the Browns, the NFL probably would've lost any attempt to block the Browns from moving but there was a deal set in place. As a result of the deal, Cleveland was promised a new Browns team and allowed to keep the colors and records. I was wrong about the expansion part, it was just a team- expansion or relocation.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cleveland_Browns

>>>Modell announced on November 6, 1995, that he had signed a deal to relocate the Browns to Baltimore in 1996—a move which would return the NFL to Baltimore for the first time since the Colts relocated to Indianapolis after the 1983 season. The very next day, on November 7, 1995, Cleveland voters overwhelmingly approved an issue that had been placed on the ballot at Modell's request, before he made his decision to move the franchise, which provided $175 million in tax dollars to refurbish the outmoded and declining Cleveland Municipal Stadium. Modell's plan was later scrapped and taxpayers ultimately paid close to $300 million to demolish the old stadium and construct a new stadium for the Browns on the site of Municipal Stadium.

Browns fans reacted angrily to the news. Over 100 lawsuits were filed by fans, the city of Cleveland, and a host of others. Congress held hearings on the matter. Actor/comedian Drew Carey returned to his hometown of Cleveland on November 26, 1995, to host "Fan Jam" in protest of the proposed move. A protest was held in Pittsburgh during the Browns' game there but ABC, the network broadcasting the game, declined to cover or mention the protest. It was one of the few instances that Steelers fans and Browns fans were supporting each other, as fans in Pittsburgh felt that Modell was robbing their team of their rivalry with the Browns.[citation needed]

Virtually all of the team's sponsors immediately pulled their support, leaving Municipal Stadium devoid of advertising during the team's final weeks.

The 1995 season was a disaster on the field as well. After starting 3–1, the Browns lost 3 straight before the news broke about the team's impending move cut the legs out from under the team. They finished 5–11, including a 2–7 record in the nine games after the announcement. When fans in the Dawg Pound became unruly during their final home game against the Cincinnati Bengals, action moving towards that end zone had to be moved to the opposite end of the field. Several fans set fires in the stands, especially in the "Dawg Pound" section, and assaulted security officials and police officers who tried to quell the growing fires. The Browns won their final game.

[edit] 1996–1999 (Inactivity)

After extensive talks between the NFL, the Browns and officials of the two cities, Cleveland accepted a legal settlement that would keep the Browns legacy in Cleveland.[6] In February 1996, the NFL announced that the Browns would be 'deactivated' for three years, and that a new stadium would be built for a new Browns team, as either an expansion team or a team moved from another city, that would begin play in 1999. Modell would in turn be granted a new franchise, (the 31st NFL franchise), for Baltimore, the Baltimore Ravens, retaining the current contracts of players and personnel. There would be a new team, but the Browns' name, colors, history, records, awards and archives would remain in Cleveland.[6] Coincidentally, the only other current NFL team to suspend operations without merging with another, the St. Louis Rams, had once played in Cleveland (they suspended during the 1943 season, at the height of World War II).[7] During this period the threat of relocation to Cleveland was used by several teams, such as the Tampa Bay Buccaneers and Denver Broncos, to help convince the taxpayers in those areas to fund new stadiums.[8]

Cleveland NFL Football LLC (Cleveland Browns Trust) was formed by the NFL. President of the Trust was Bill Futterer, and NFL Commissioner Paul Tagliabue was the Trustee. The Trust represented the NFL in the stadium design and construction, managed the sale of suites and club seats, and sold Permanent Seat Licenses and season tickets. Additionally, the Trust reorganized the Browns Backers fan clubs across the United States, resumed coaches shows on television and radio throughout the state of Ohio, and conducted a dramatic one-year countdown celebration that incorporated the first live Internet broadcast in NFL history. The Trust operated its campaign under a Countdown to '99 theme, utilizing Hall of Famers such as Lou Groza and Jim Brown extensively, and sold nearly 53,000 season tickets—a team record in 1998. It remains the only time in professional American football history that a league operated a team "in absentia" in order to preserve the history of the franchise and to build value in that franchise for the future owner. The NFL sold the Browns as an expansion team in 1998 for a North American record $530 million for a professional franchise, more than double any previous selling price for a pro sports team. Commissioner Tagliabue announced that the Browns would be an expansion team, rather than a relocated team, at the owners meeting in March 1998.[7] Some[who?] consider the current Baltimore Ravens and the pre-1995 Cleveland Browns organization as one continuous entity, using terms like "The Modell organization" or "Art Modell's Franchise" to denote it.[9] Officially, the National Football League, Pro Football Hall of Fame, Cleveland Browns and Baltimore Ravens all consider the current Browns team to be a continuation of the team founded in 1946.[7]<<<

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BAFGA

BAFGA

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I don't think fans in L.A. will flock to see a new team such as the Vikings or whoever. The football fans have their own allegiances, and as we've seen with all of the people that have moved to this area they are unbending on that allegiance. When is the NFL going to learn this?

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DWinzit

DWinzit

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That franchise won't do a thing until Al Davis dies.
I could see them move back to LA or some other area near the left cost. That would be the only area under Davis' reign. And they'll bring in more talent, they always have talent on their roster but you're correct, until Davis passes it is doubtful they'll see much success.

Meddlesome owners mean well but that doesn't always correlate into them making good business and team related decisions. To a degree Snyder appears to have learned his lesson. In the case of Al Davis and Jerry Jones they experienced success early on and now seem to think they are the great and powerful Oz. Reality is they're in control of a pack of hand picked flying monkey's.

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HailGreen28

HailGreen28

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Of course it's business but remember its sports writers who vote people into the hall and I can gaurantee to you they are holding that against Tags.
QFT. Those sports writing douchebags are the ONLY reason Monk was kept out so long.

Thanks for all the good info on what's become for me an educational thread.

Personally, after seeing the NFL in the 80's and 90's come to DOMINATE sports in America, and keep it's lead today, I don't see how you keep Tagliabue out of the Hall. He may not have started the NFL's rise to the top, but he oversaw the bulk of the progress.

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DWinzit

DWinzit

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Timing is everything. Here's a little from a long article dated today regarding the Raiders stadium situation:

Raiders have their own redevelopment plan

The one big idea the Raiders have proposed is this: staying put at a new and vastly improved Coliseum as the anchor to a redevelopment project that pours jobs, revenue and tax money across the vacant spread between 66th Avenue and Hegenberger Road.

And, above all, it keeps the Raiders in the Oakland city limits, where they would just as soon stay.

"I think that's an area that has unbelievable possibilities," said De La Fuente, who has served 12 years on the Coliseum Joint Powers Authority, which runs the stadium. "We have the site. We have the land. It's definitely a doable thing. It's probably one of the few things that will work.

"Now, how are we going to get there is the question."

It's a nine-figure, if not a billion-dollar question, and it's one being posed in the midst of a dire economic downturn. But then, affordable options are few and everyone agrees something must be done.

Raiders owner Al Davis said last week he would like a new stadium, but the NFL's stadium seed money fund is empty. Neither the City of Oakland nor Alameda County - co-landlords of the stadium who share its annual $20 million bond debt - are in fiscal position to dole out the hundreds of millions of dollars needed to build a new Coliseum.

The league has suggested the 49ers and Raiders consider building a joint stadium, but that option has its own special set of hurdles.

This, and only this, much is certain: The Raiders' lease at the Coliseum, signed when they returned from Los Angeles in 1995, expires after the 2010 season. The Raiders asked for an extension in 2005 but stadium officials politely declined. The team has not requested an extension since and is not negotiating a new lease.

http://www.sfgate.com/cgi-bin/article.cgi?f=/c/a/2009/02/14/SPML15SVF2.DTL

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RFKFedEx

RFKFedEx

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The Raiders' lease at the Coliseum, signed when they returned from Los Angeles in 1995, expires after the 2010 season. The Raiders asked for an extension in 2005 but stadium officials politely declined. The team has not requested an extension since and is not negotiating a new lease.

That should be interesting. I guess the city of Oakland really wants to stick it to Al by threatening to kick him out. You know they'll work something out in the end.

Evicting the Raiders certainly isn't going to reduce the debt the city created after funding the renovations which lured Al back home in 1995.

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