Zguy28 Posted February 12, 2009 Share Posted February 12, 2009 Scientists will also be able to study cell lines that are genetically encoded for specific diseases--perhaps one of the most promising near-term uses of embryonic stem cells. (None of the Bush-approved lines have these qualities.) "One of the clear opportunities that has not been available are lines generated from embryos that carry mutations for Huntington's disease, amyotrophic lateral sclerosis (ALS), and cystic fibrosis," says Story Landis, director of the National Institute for Neurological Disorders and Stroke, in Bethesda, MD, and chair of the NIH's Stem Cell Task Force. reading is fundamentalYes it is.This is what I was talking about. You just keep drinking the kool-aid that these folks are pouring down your throat. Looks to me like its just "perhaps if we had these it might work". Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ChocolateCitySkin Posted February 12, 2009 Share Posted February 12, 2009 Yes it is.This is what I was talking about. You just keep drinking the kool-aid that these folks are pouring down your throat. Looks to me like its just "perhaps if we had these it might work". before the wright brothers everyone said that man couldn't fly. using your logic they should have never tried to fly. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zguy28 Posted February 12, 2009 Share Posted February 12, 2009 before the wright brothers everyone said that man couldn't fly. using your logic they should have never tried to fly.Last I checked flying wasn't an ethical issue dividing 400 million people in half. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Skinz4Life12 Posted February 12, 2009 Share Posted February 12, 2009 so will they get funding for non-approved bush lines or not? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ChocolateCitySkin Posted February 12, 2009 Share Posted February 12, 2009 Last I checked flying wasn't an ethical issue dividing 400 million people in half. where'd you pull 400 million out of? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PeterMP Posted February 12, 2009 Share Posted February 12, 2009 ok, kindof confused whether or not they will start to use ES cells now All ES cells have always been availible for research. Just not federal funding. You always could use some ES cells w/ federal funding. Just ones that had been approved by Bush back in the early 2000's. It is likely that Obama will lift the ban more fully if he hasn't already. I personally think it is a bit odd because in fact we now have the ability to take non-stem cells from any person (and therefore containing any mutation for any disease) and convert them into cells that appear by several measures to be IDENTICAL to ES cells. This approach beyond the ethical concerns also has the bonus of tissue/cell rejection shouldn't be an issue because they will be identical to the patient. http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2005/08/21/AR2005082101180.html It seems reasonable that it might make sense to have some further stem cell studies to compare these produced cells to real ES cells to make sure they are identical under a large number of conditions, but it doesn't seem at all worthwhile going forward w/ pure ES research if there is any moral concern (and I think essentially every bioethicist that has looked at the issue has said there is SOME concern), but I doubt politically that matters. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Califan007 The Constipated Posted February 12, 2009 Share Posted February 12, 2009 where'd you pull 400 million out of? I'm pretty sure he's referring to the country's population. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zguy28 Posted February 12, 2009 Share Posted February 12, 2009 where'd you pull 400 million out of? I was generalizing based on the population of the USA. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BigMike619 Posted February 12, 2009 Share Posted February 12, 2009 In 1891, the german engineer Otto Lilienthal succeeded with the reproducible gliding flights, the first in history, with his own design. His methodical strategy "from jump to flight" was adopted by the Wright Brothers in their quest to develop a practical powered machine. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zguy28 Posted February 12, 2009 Share Posted February 12, 2009 All ES cells have always been availible for research. Just not federal funding.You always could use some ES cells w/ federal funding. Just ones that had been approved by Bush back in the early 2000's. It is likely that Obama will lift the ban more fully if he hasn't already. I personally think it is a bit odd because in fact we now have the ability to take non-stem cells from any person (and therefore containing any mutation for any disease) and convert them into cells that appear by several measures to be IDENTICAL to ES cells. This approach beyond the ethical concerns also has the bonus of tissue/cell rejection shouldn't be an issue because they will be identical to the patient. http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2005/08/21/AR2005082101180.html It seems reasonable that it might make sense to have some further stem cell studies to compare these produced cells to real ES cells to make sure they are identical under a large number of conditions, but it doesn't seem at all worthwhile going forward w/ pure ES research if there is any moral concern (and I think essentially every bioethicist that has looked at the issue has said there is SOME concern), but I doubt politically that matters. Thank you for a reasonable post on the subject. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Califan007 The Constipated Posted February 12, 2009 Share Posted February 12, 2009 It seems reasonable that it might make sense to have some further stem cell studies to compare these produced cells to real ES cells to make sure they are identical under a large number of conditions, but it doesn't seem at all worthwhile going forward w/ pure ES research if there is any moral concern (and I think essentially every bioethicist that has looked at the issue has said there is SOME concern), but I doubt politically that matters. This hits at what I was getting at earlier...the idea that there are no ethical concerns except in the mind of religious zealots is a bit naive. It's just as naive as saying that there is no benefit to pursuing ES cell research because all other stem cell research will eventually render ES cells unnecessary. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ChocolateCitySkin Posted February 12, 2009 Share Posted February 12, 2009 This hits at what I was getting at earlier...the idea that there are no ethical concerns except in the mind of religious zealots is a bit naive. It's just as naive as saying that there is no benefit to pursuing ES cell research because all other stem cell research will eventually render ES cells unnecessary. bioethics and religion are and should be two separate institutions. you can prattle on about your faith based destiny of a single cell's theoretical potential as a life form. but that is not what bioethical concerns they are referring. so continue to backtrack and squeeze your round argument into a square hole. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zguy28 Posted February 12, 2009 Share Posted February 12, 2009 This hits at what I was getting at earlier...the idea that there are no ethical concerns except in the mind of religious zealots is a bit naive. It's just as naive as saying that there is no benefit to pursuing ES cell research because all other stem cell research will eventually render ES cells unnecessary.Exactly.Personally, I am against ESC research primarily on moral and religious grounds. But I realize that others don't agree with me. All I ask folks is to thoroughly do their homework and weigh the pros and cons of ESC's, compared to adult stem cells, when deciding whether to support them. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BigMike619 Posted February 12, 2009 Share Posted February 12, 2009 bioethics and religion are and should be two separate institutions. you can prattle on about your faith based destiny of a single cell's theoretical potential as a life form. but that is not what bioethical concerns they are referring. so continue to backtrack and squeeze your round argument into a square hole. you are asking for someone who is religious to not think of human life in a religious way. thats impossible... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Califan007 The Constipated Posted February 12, 2009 Share Posted February 12, 2009 bioethics and religion are and should be two separate institutions. you can prattle on about your faith based destiny of a single cell's theoretical potential as a life form. but that is not what bioethical concerns they are referring. so continue to backtrack and squeeze your round argument into a square hole. In no way did I say the bioethical concerns are the same concerns as the religious ones. If you actually read the lines I write instead of constantly trying to read between them you would have realized that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PleaseBlitz Posted February 12, 2009 Share Posted February 12, 2009 There is no ban on research. The gov't just says it won't fund it. I mean, think about it, look how much conflict arises over the gov't funding abortion providers. Do you really want the gov't involved in another moral conflict the likes of abortion? One that can potentially cure AIDS and cancer? Yes, i would like that. Sooner rather than later, please. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Califan007 The Constipated Posted February 12, 2009 Share Posted February 12, 2009 you are asking for someone who is religious to not think of human life in a religious way. thats impossible... Not to mention that, if he was referring to me, I'm not religious lol ... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Califan007 The Constipated Posted February 12, 2009 Share Posted February 12, 2009 Exactly.Personally, I am against ESC research primarily on moral and religious grounds. But I realize that others don't agree with me. All I ask folks is to thoroughly do their homework and weigh the pros and cons of ESC's, compared to adult stem cells, when deciding whether to support them. There are a whole range of issues to be considered when considering ES cell research...only the most shortsighted of us will assume there isn't. And yeah, people on both sides need to do FAR more homework on the subject. Hell, I asked a simple question in this thread and was ridiculed for doing so lol ...that pretty much shows how little "homework" people tend to think is really needed on the subject. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BigMike619 Posted February 12, 2009 Share Posted February 12, 2009 Not to mention that, if he was referring to me, I'm not religious lol ... I just meant in general..you heathen...LOL Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Califan007 The Constipated Posted February 12, 2009 Share Posted February 12, 2009 I just meant in general..you heathen...LOL Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BigMike619 Posted February 12, 2009 Share Posted February 12, 2009 bwaaaaaaaaaahahahaha!! she was a dancer!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ChocolateCitySkin Posted February 12, 2009 Share Posted February 12, 2009 Not to mention that, if he was referring to me, I'm not religious lol ... reading between the lines? your grandmother argument is purely faith based. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Califan007 The Constipated Posted February 12, 2009 Share Posted February 12, 2009 bwaaaaaaaaaahahahaha!! she was a dancer!! With a snake lol :cool: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Califan007 The Constipated Posted February 12, 2009 Share Posted February 12, 2009 reading between the lines? your grandmother argument is purely faith based. No it's not. There are a ton of philosophies out there that go into the value and realities of human life. That's not the arena of religions alone. Expand your thinking... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ChocolateCitySkin Posted February 12, 2009 Share Posted February 12, 2009 No it's not. There are a ton of philosophies out there that go into the value and realities of human life. That's not the arena of religions alone. Expand your thinking... that argument is a pure paradox. and only functions on one level. religion. otherwise, you can make the argument that the destroyed cell gives life to the cell behind it. you're putting the rights of one cell over the rights of another to live. its a stupid asinine argument. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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