Califan007 The Constipated Posted February 12, 2009 Share Posted February 12, 2009 THEY ARE THROWING THEM AWAY!!!So, yeah. Try again. I'm not talking about what "they" are doing with them...I'm talking about the idea of saying the embryo is less important than your "grandmother or mother", etc. And do they get embryonic stem cells from 4 day old embryos? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
panel Posted February 12, 2009 Share Posted February 12, 2009 good thing bush banned stem cell research. Bush did not ban Stem cell research, he didn't publicly fund it, this research happened while Bush was in office. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
G.A.C.O.L.B. Posted February 12, 2009 Share Posted February 12, 2009 I'm not talking about what "they" are doing with them...I'm talking about the idea of saying the embryo is less important than your "grandmother or mother", etc.And do they get embryonic stem cells from 4 day old embryos? Yeah well I'm talking about what "they" are doing. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Califan007 The Constipated Posted February 12, 2009 Share Posted February 12, 2009 Yeah well I'm talking about what "they" are doing. Then take your argument to someone who's actually discussing that topic lol... And again, do they get embryonic stem cells from 4 day old embryos? Does anyone know? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ChocolateCitySkin Posted February 12, 2009 Share Posted February 12, 2009 I understand what you're saying, but keep this in mind: the "this" that you showed in the picture could have BEEN your great-grandmother, or your grandmother, or your mother, or you. So there are two sides, here. It would be foolish for either side to completely write off the other as nonsense. if we didn't write off foolish comments by some religious zealots it would still be the dark ages. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
G.A.C.O.L.B. Posted February 12, 2009 Share Posted February 12, 2009 Then take your argument to someone who's actually discussing that topic lol.. What the **** does that mean? I am discussing the topic in the thread... about the topic. You quoted me. Oh and it's called google. It's a magical thing. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Califan007 The Constipated Posted February 12, 2009 Share Posted February 12, 2009 What the **** does that mean? I am discussing the topic in the thread... about the topic. You quoted me. Oh and it's called google. It's a magical thing. I quoted your comment about your mother/grandmother's worth as compared to an embryo. Nothing in your post talked about what "they" did with embryos. So that's what the hell that means. Try to follow your own posts, will ya? lol... And I'm gonna assume that you don't know the answer to my question lol...sorry if asking a curious question on the actual topic of the thread seems irresponsible in your eyes. You'll have to deal with it somehow, though. :cool: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
G.A.C.O.L.B. Posted February 12, 2009 Share Posted February 12, 2009 I quoted your comment about your mother/grandmother's worth as compared to an embryo. Nothing in your post talked about what "they" did with embryos. So that's what the hell that means. Try to follow your own posts, will ya? lol...And I'm gonna assume that you don't know the answer to my question lol...sorry if asking a curious question on the actual topic of the thread seems irresponsible in your eyes. You'll have to deal with it somehow, though. :cool: Wow. And no I don't know the answer to your question. I could look it up. In like seconds. But you can do the same. So knock yourself out and answer your own question. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Califan007 The Constipated Posted February 12, 2009 Share Posted February 12, 2009 if we didn't write off foolish comments by some religious zealots it would still be the dark ages. And of course the opposite stance is "If we didn't write off foolish comments by some unthinking secular scientist-types we'd be cloning human beings simply to harvest their organs and trying to create a "perfect" human race." Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Skinz4Life12 Posted February 12, 2009 Share Posted February 12, 2009 mother. grandmother. great grandmother >>>> embryo fact. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Califan007 The Constipated Posted February 12, 2009 Share Posted February 12, 2009 Wow. I guanantee you that you're the only one who is "wow'd" by my post. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Skinz4Life12 Posted February 12, 2009 Share Posted February 12, 2009 And of course the opposite stance is "If we didn't write off foolish comments by some unthinking secular scientist-types we'd be cloning human beings simply to harvest their organs and trying to create a "perfect" human race." come on man. you're reaching so hard and you know it Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Califan007 The Constipated Posted February 12, 2009 Share Posted February 12, 2009 mother. grandmother. great grandmother >>>> embryofact. How is that "fact"? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Califan007 The Constipated Posted February 12, 2009 Share Posted February 12, 2009 come on man. you're reaching so hard and you know it No, I'm trying to point out that just because someone believes their stance is right doesn't mean their comments can't be over the top or way too generalized. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Skinz4Life12 Posted February 12, 2009 Share Posted February 12, 2009 How is that "fact"? i guess thats just a fundamental difference in our views that i'm not even going to try and argue. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
G.A.C.O.L.B. Posted February 12, 2009 Share Posted February 12, 2009 I guanantee you that you're the only one who is "wow'd" by my post. I'm pretty sure I am. And check the edit Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ChocolateCitySkin Posted February 12, 2009 Share Posted February 12, 2009 califan assumes you are running under the pretense that there is some ordained destiny to the universe. if we go by your thought process what if that cell thats used means the next cell is his grandmother? and then b.c. we didn't use that cell he doesn't exist? is that fair to him? poor guy won't exist now Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
G.A.C.O.L.B. Posted February 12, 2009 Share Posted February 12, 2009 i guess thats just a fundamental difference in our views that i'm not even going to try and argue. Exactly. He wants to act cute and like a douchebag, just let him. It's not worth it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Califan007 The Constipated Posted February 12, 2009 Share Posted February 12, 2009 i guess thats just a fundamental difference in our views that i'm not even going to try and argue. That's exactly it: it's a "view", and opinion. Not a "fact". A "fact" would be: great-grandmother/Grandmother/Mother used to all be embryos. That's fact. Not opinion. Whether or not human life at it's very, VERY beginning stage is more "valuable" than human life at any other stage of development is opinion. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Califan007 The Constipated Posted February 12, 2009 Share Posted February 12, 2009 Exactly. He wants to act cute and like a douchebag, just let him. It's not worth it. Ah, and out trot the insults lol...."douchebag". That's a new one. :thumbsup: Those who actually enjoy debate understand what I'm doing. Those who react in an over-emotional way and push thinking aside will...well, we're seeing what they do. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PeterMP Posted February 12, 2009 Share Posted February 12, 2009 Most likely, in fact, I believe there already has been some loosening. The FDA approved some stem cell procedures and tests only days after Obama was sworn in. Rumor was that they wanted to wait because the bureaucrats were afraid of political repurcussions. http://www.nytimes.com/2009/01/23/business/23stem.html With Bush approved stem cell lines, which honestly really shocked me: "The human embryonic stem cell lines currently eligible for research with federal funds are not suitable for use in future clinical trials" http://news.bio-medicine.org/medicine-news-2/Panel-3A-Clinical-use-of-embryonic-stem-cells--jeopardized-by-Bushs-policy-on-federal-funding-5030-1/ "Conducting a federally funded clinical trial of human ES cells, under current federal policy, would require using cell lines that none of us feel should be used in people, since it is now feasible to create safer lines," says Ruth Faden, Ph.D., M.P.H., a leader of the panel and executive director of the Phoebe R. Berman Bioethics Institute at Johns Hopkins. "So, all clinical trials -- and by extension the experiments leading to them -- should be conducted with newer cell lines not eligible for federal funding. The likelihood of getting to a clinical trial using only private funds, however, is very slim. "Moreover," she adds, "the absence of federal funding would mean a reduced role for federal oversight of the ethics of human embryonic stem cell research." I am honestly confused. I guess I at least can ask some people, but the big push was these lines would NEVER be approved for clinical trials so either the people saying that were wrong OR we've approved things for clinical trials that shouldn't have been. I honestly don't, which and I'm not a big fan of conspiracy theories, but it assumes either way you have one. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Skinz4Life12 Posted February 12, 2009 Share Posted February 12, 2009 ok, kindof confused whether or not they will start to use ES cells now Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Califan007 The Constipated Posted February 12, 2009 Share Posted February 12, 2009 http://www.nytimes.com/2009/01/23/business/23stem.htmlhttp://news.bio-medicine.org/medicine-news-2/Panel-3A-Clinical-use-of-embryonic-stem-cells--jeopardized-by-Bushs-policy-on-federal-funding-5030-1/ I honestly don't, which and I'm not a big fan of conspiracy theories, but it assumes either way you have one. That's quite a differing of opinion on ES cells... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PeterMP Posted February 12, 2009 Share Posted February 12, 2009 Scientists will also be able to study cell lines that are genetically encoded for specific diseases--perhaps one of the most promising near-term uses of embryonic stem cells. (None of the Bush-approved lines have these qualities.) "One of the clear opportunities that has not been available are lines generated from embryos that carry mutations for Huntington's disease, amyotrophic lateral sclerosis (ALS), and cystic fibrosis," says Story Landis, director of the National Institute for Neurological Disorders and Stroke, in Bethesda, MD, and chair of the NIH's Stem Cell Task Force. This makes no sense to me. How does deriving stem cells for these diseases help you w/ the disease? These are diseases that affect specific tissue and even specific cells w/ IN specific tissues. I'd be shocked if there is an embryonic stem cell phenotype for most of the diseases. The disease is tissue/cell specific. It almost certainly doesn't happen at a stem cell or more tissue/cell types would be affected. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PleaseBlitz Posted February 12, 2009 Share Posted February 12, 2009 ok, kindof confused whether or not they will start to use ES cells now Obama needs to sign something, and he's currently using all of his political capital on the $800 billion bill. Not the best time to piss of the religious crowd. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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