pokerhog Posted February 10, 2009 Share Posted February 10, 2009 OK... who the hell keeps thinking that Holt is an old and oft injured guy.He's 32. For a WR, tha means he has about 3-4 great years ahead of him/ Injured? Holt has played in all 16 games of just about every year of his career. In fact... he has only missed 14 games in his entire career. Come on... dont hate the idea, just to hate it. Hell... some of our greats played very well into their latter years. What? Does the name Green ring a bell? Pace? Err... uhh... Hey! What whats over there! Holt has a degenerative knee condition that continues to get worse...sound familiar? He hardly practiced for the last half of the year, and was banged up when he was in there. I love Holt as a receiver, but he simply is not ever going to be completely healthy. This is what we can look forward to with Malcolm Kelly as well. He could help in the teaching the younger receivers how to work and run proper routes category, but it's just not worth it. Pace is an injury nightmare as well, and I still don't even understand the concept of trading two players for one third round draft pick...? Is there a link for this? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pokerhog Posted February 10, 2009 Share Posted February 10, 2009 OK, found the link, and I'm not sure, despite the article's poor wording, that they meant BOTH players for one third rounder. If for some reason that is the case, I highly doubt this, then I would consider making this trade. I agree with everyone on here that we need to keep our picks, and get younger, and stay the rebuilding course, however...if you can get Holt AND Pace for one third rounder, I would probably do it. Of course, it would all depend on their health. Holt will has lost a step, but would still be an above average receiver that would be a fantastic example for the young guys, and if Pace is healthy, he could be moved inside to guard, and would make for quite an impressive left side with Samuels. Of course, this is still a tough call, since there will be injury issues, and Pace is getting too old. Stopgap solution at best, but for that price....maybe. Spend all of our remaining picks on solidifying LB and d-line...and rebuild o-line through FA...hmmm, not sure, but maybe.... If, like I suspect, that its a third rounder for one player, then no way! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Leonard Washington Posted February 10, 2009 Share Posted February 10, 2009 a third for both is a steal. the skins should at least think about it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thinking Skins Posted February 10, 2009 Share Posted February 10, 2009 How about trading Jason Taylor for Torry Holt? Forget the #3 pick. Forget Orlando Pace If we can get anything for Taylor, I'd be happy. Holt would be a nice trade straight up.......but once again, knowing Vinny he'd probably throw in a third rounder "to balance it out"... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IbleedBnG83 Posted February 10, 2009 Share Posted February 10, 2009 a third for both is a steal. the skins should at least think about it. A steal for the Rams! Whats to think about? someone shut this thread down....please!!!!!!!!!!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Passizle Posted February 10, 2009 Share Posted February 10, 2009 Holt has a degenerative knee condition that continues to get worse...sound familiar? He hardly practiced for the last half of the year, and was banged up when he was in there. Do you have a link to support this? I never read this... and Holt has been a staple of my FF leagues for years. NM.. I found a few speculative articles after his 2007/2008 (dontknow what year he had it) surgery. Everything I found... which was not much... was ALL specualtion. Just talking about the knee not being fully healed yet. Those article were less than a year after his surgery... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bootzilla Posted February 10, 2009 Share Posted February 10, 2009 I think Holt is a great WR, But I dont want A WR who on Crossing route's instead of trying to get extra yards just falls to the Ground!!! Plus His age does not help. I think he is 32, about to turn 33 this season.. :2cents: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
artmonkforHOF Posted February 10, 2009 Share Posted February 10, 2009 I don't know what's left on Holt & Pace's contracts, but I bet it's not cheap. Plus you might get one good year from Pace who has been breaking down lately and maybe 2 years from Holt before he becomes the old guy who comes in on 4 or 5 WR sets. I don't think it would be a good move. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Skins PR Posted February 10, 2009 Share Posted February 10, 2009 Yeah, because we are so good that we can afford to not even entertain the idea of bringing in talented players simply because of their attitude.:doh:This might have made a little more sense (and I emphasis the word little ) if you had said just say no because of his attitude and criminal background. But there's not even that. The bottomline... we can't afford to be so damn picky. We can't afford not to be picky. If you want to turn into a first class organization, a team that wins consistently... you don't bring in players with character issues... period. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NAC386 Posted February 10, 2009 Share Posted February 10, 2009 I don't even remember the last time Pace actually played in a game, he's been hurt forever. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Veretax Posted February 10, 2009 Share Posted February 10, 2009 wasn't pace the one who played dirty in this years game? I'd rather have neither. We don't need another short WR (Holt). And Pace is past his prime and damaged good. Offer a 6th rounder for both, no more Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lombardi's_kid_brother Posted February 10, 2009 Share Posted February 10, 2009 If Pace was capable of standing up without falling down right now, this would be intriguing - though I cannot imagine that the deal is both of them for a 3. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
panel Posted February 10, 2009 Share Posted February 10, 2009 wasn't pace the one who played dirty in this years game?I'd rather have neither. We don't need another short WR (Holt). And Pace is past his prime and damaged good. Offer a 6th rounder for both, no more No, that was Incognetio Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Going Commando Posted February 10, 2009 Share Posted February 10, 2009 We can't afford not to be picky. If you want to turn into a first class organization, a team that wins consistently... you don't bring in players with character issues... period. Neither Holt nor Pace have any character issues. Are they who this was focused at? Anyway, I think that a 3rd rounder has good value for us in this years draft. There are a lot of good centers in this class that could be around in round 3. A much better use for the pick would be to spend it on someone like Eric Wood or A.Q. Shipley who might start for the team for years to come than to spend it on another stopgap player who will be around for maybe two mediocre seasons. Please, nobody bring up Green as an argument for the likelihood of career longevity, because guys like him and Rice just show how rare it is for a player to last that long. Think about it, what makes them special is that they made it to their late 30's and early 40's because 99% of the league doesn't. Remember, these are two players turning 33 on the second worst team in the NFL. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
panel Posted February 10, 2009 Share Posted February 10, 2009 Holt is out of this world crazy with the hands that he has. I think a 3rd rounder is a steal for him, but I am worried that if we got a FA list this that it would throw us off our direction. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
S.T.real,lights,out Posted February 10, 2009 Share Posted February 10, 2009 Isn't Pace older than Jansen??? No thanks on either one!!!! Dont want another teams trash! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MoeRedskins Posted February 10, 2009 Share Posted February 10, 2009 I would be all over this move. Holt is still a top 10-15 WR in the league and pace would be a better RT than Jansen or Heyer. Plus with that 1st, would could still take a lineman on both sides of the ball, but an O lineman would be able to be brought along slowly or start with pace as a backup tackle. And for those who say that "When will this team learn not to trade picks for old players" you need to realize that this is actually a much better deal than the Redskins normally make. A second round for an often injured (when he was never injured before by the way) dancing DE that played on the opposite side of the ball for his whole career? Bad move. A third and fourth for a forgettable running back? You can probably get two or three good years out of one or both these guys. And with the way the Redskins draft, they might not get anything out of a thrid round pick. To bad they don't have one to trade. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Old Bay Posted February 10, 2009 Share Posted February 10, 2009 This has bad news written all over it. No matter how much of a bargain this may sound, it's just delaying the inevitable. We need lots of young guys not a couple of old guys to help this team. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
36HAMMER Posted February 10, 2009 Share Posted February 10, 2009 we need to get rid of some of our own older guys possibly for picks.face it, the next year will probably be a down year. we don't have the cap space to get some young fa to help and have too few picks to take care of all the needs. and all the while we get older and have even more needs.thats why stop gap won't work, keep the core group of young guys and then start getting rid of the others either through trades or release.it's the only way.it could be sped up if portis and moss tore up their contracts or released the skins from the signing bones with a say in their destination and then let them go and rebuild this team.i know it sounds crazy but we have soo much dead cap money and the rest is tied up with players whom either have nothing left or are a couple of years a way from it.portis needs to go to a team who runs his style of offense.maybe denver would take him back. it's not that i don't like him or think he can't help, it's just his cap number is hugh and he's not built for our style of running game. the pounding is catching up with him. moss also drops too many passes and disappears too often to be our number 1 wr. but his cap number hurts. then you've thomas, jansen, washington, and griffen and springs.all big contracts and guys whos best playing days are past.even done in some cases,we have a qb who's got to step up this year and might not have the guys to do it with.snyder needs to get someone like allen who knows how to do contracts right. so they don't kill the team. tampa bay is between 30 and 40 mil under the cap and they have a very young oline, just no qb or steady rb.going to be interesting guys. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Merlin Emrys Posted February 10, 2009 Share Posted February 10, 2009 Seems to me (if im reading this correctly) the Rams want to trade Holt and Pace for a single 3rd round pick. They are basically handcuffed by the salary cap and need these two gone to rebuild. How would you guys like to see the Redskins make this trade? Pace could start at RT for us and Holt can still be a playmaker. Seems like great value to me for only a 3rd rounder. It could fill some needs for us and let us draft a linebacker and some other linemen with our remaining picks. Link Great idea, let's give up more draft picks for some aging vets with big contracts. :thumbsup: They'll fit right in here. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ntotoro Posted February 10, 2009 Share Posted February 10, 2009 A 3rd should be spent on someone who can contribute a bit this year and as a starter the next year. Sometimes you get lucky. It shouldn't be spent on a couple stopgap guys. This falls flatly in the "we're only one or two players away" mentality that has killed this team. We're not going to the Super Bowl next year. Best to build with talented youth, not a flea market deal just because it may seem good on the surface. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MartinC Posted February 10, 2009 Share Posted February 10, 2009 A 3rd should be spent on someone who can contribute a bit this year and as a starter the next year. Sometimes you get lucky. It shouldn't be spent on a couple stopgap guys. This falls flatly in the "we're only one or two players away" mentality that has killed this team.We're not going to the Super Bowl next year. Best to build with talented youth, not a flea market deal just because it may seem good on the surface. I agree with your post apart from the not going to the Super Bowl bit. Its long odds but never say never. Did you have the Cards making it this year? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ntotoro Posted February 10, 2009 Share Posted February 10, 2009 I agree with your post apart from the not going to the Super Bowl bit. Its long odds but never say never. Did you have the Cards making it this year? The Cards have always been able to score points, though, something we can't seem to do. They have been a "sleeper" for the last few years, so it's not a complete shock to see them to one year very well. I don't think they'll be very good next year, either, but I don't want to lose another first-day pick to a couple stop-gap guys when we really need to rebuild. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DCMONEY Posted February 10, 2009 Share Posted February 10, 2009 I don't think the Skins could afford both of those players and build also. Part of me says but I really prefer the Skins develop their own players and move on. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IbleedBnG83 Posted February 10, 2009 Share Posted February 10, 2009 Bottom line, trading a 3rd for these two is basically sacrificing a would be 10 year starter for an OL that may not make it through the whole season and could retire the following year, and a receiver who is not who he once was and has maybe a couple of years left. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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